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Author Topic: Quarantine information thread  (Read 22105 times)
Scav
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« Reply #75 on: December 11, 2012, 08:28:33 AM »

This is off topic somewhat but Kendall Clinic is by far one of the worst that we have ever dealt with. We actually needed a simple surgery back in August and went all the way to Wisconsin to get it instead after dealing with those people again.
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« Reply #76 on: December 11, 2012, 09:38:28 AM »

Marcus isn't it true that Ehv-1 one of the symptoms and side affects is respitory problems?

After all many of the drugs used to treat respitory?

If u want to continue posting what you know about this ehv2,
May I suggest putting Terry on ignor  and mot respond to him if u want to continue this dialogue about ehv1
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« Reply #77 on: December 11, 2012, 10:18:56 AM »

If i owned race horses and my trainer wanted to ship my horse into a track with a quarantine for a highly contagious, deadly disease......he'd no longer be my trainer.....
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Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #78 on: December 11, 2012, 11:08:11 AM »

This was reported in the long story in DRF about HAW EHV-1 in late November. I specifically asked Dr. Seabaugh about the dead-pony narrative that many had been referencing. He refuted it with the pneumonia diagnosis. Doubters will believe what they want to believe, but this EHV-1 "origin story" was punctured quite some time ago.

Thanks for confirming the pneumonia ... whether clinic or track.
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« Reply #79 on: December 11, 2012, 11:17:57 AM »

If i owned race horses and my trainer wanted to ship my horse into a track with a quarantine for a highly contagious, deadly disease......he'd no longer be my trainer.....

That is the craziest thing about this whole situation.  How could anyone think shipping in is a good idea, and if someone is stupid enough to want to ship into a quarantine, why would we let them?
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #80 on: December 11, 2012, 11:20:38 AM »

This was reported in the long story in DRF about HAW EHV-1 in late November. I specifically asked Dr. Seabaugh about the dead-pony narrative that many had been referencing. He refuted it with the pneumonia diagnosis. Doubters will believe what they want to believe, but this EHV-1 "origin story" was punctured quite some time ago.

To update this post: I looked back at the on-line version of the story (http://www.drf.com/news/hawthorne-latest-herpesvirus-outbreak-has-horsemen-alert) and found that the reference to the dead pony had been edited out. Don't know if it made the print version, either. In any case, the subject did arise during an interview with Dr. Seabaugh, Hawthorne's association vet. And to repeat: He confirmed the death but said pneumonia was the cause.
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« Reply #81 on: December 11, 2012, 12:04:35 PM »

Marcus, your post on the previous thread...

"The problem (and it is a pretty serious problem) with letting horses into Hawthorne right now (and yes, horses are coming in), is that by doing so the population of animals that has not been exposed to the virus is constantly being enlarged. By now, its safe to assume that most horses stable at HAW during the entire outbreak have been exposed to EHV-1; once exposed, they're not going to get sick, which is how the virus "runs its course." But new arrivals -- especially 2yos with more susceptible immune systems -- haven't yet been exposed to the bug. The track runs the risk of prolonging a quarantine based on last-neurologically-symptomatic-horse by allowing new horses on the backstretch."

... has been the most insightful and useful of all the posts in this and the previous thread. 

Job one for all concerned should be how to best end this thing and get our horses out of danger and out of there.  There will be plenty of time after we are through this to litigate causes and assign blame.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #82 on: December 11, 2012, 02:19:31 PM »

I still haven't seen any reports or stats on new arrivals getting sick. Have they?
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« Reply #83 on: December 11, 2012, 03:01:32 PM »

Check your "expert sources to figure that out...

Meanwhile:

EHV-1 Neurological disease can be transmitted:

* through the air from RESPIRATORY INFECTION
* by direct or close contact between horses
* by intact ith ontaminated equipment, clothing, or hands.

Symptoms can include:

* weakness and paralysis of the muscles of the hind limbs that cause lack of coordination, gait abnormalities ans the inability to stand up from a sitting position.
* a fever of 102 F or greater
* NASAL DISCHARGE and/ or cough
* RESPIRATORY DISTRESS

A genetic test for identifying latent equine carriers of EHV-1 is available.

Symptoms of pneumonia :

* NASAL DISCHARGE
* Labored breathing or OTHER SIGNS OF RESPIRATORY DISTRESS
* intolerance to exercise.

Blood work on the deceased pony would be helpful, I'm sure. 

And, if the pony did pass away at Kendall Road, he got sick in Barn A, necessitating transport to clinic.

The clinical signs of both EHV-1 and Equine pneumonia have enough similarities to create a question mark as to the cause of death of the pony.


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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #84 on: December 11, 2012, 03:17:26 PM »

The clinical signs of both EHV-1 and Equine pneumonia have enough similarities to create a question mark as to the cause of death of the pony.

Oh most certainly ... to the arm chair vets making their diagnoses here on this forum, for a horse that no longer exists except in rumor and memory. But how about to the actual vet who made the actual determination of death? (Vets: those demigods who have featured so prominently as infallible expert sources throughout these threads, except, apparently, when that's inconvenient to the narrative.)

And I didn't see anything in the pneumonia symptoms you listed above about any kind of neurological distress. Haven't all 6 of the herpes horses that have passed displayed definite neurological symptoms?
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« Reply #85 on: December 11, 2012, 03:37:07 PM »



      Is it any wonder why more horsemen at Hawthorne have not come forth and reported more firsthand news concerning the virus at Hawthorne. To go back and look at the 53 pages of ostracizing and scrutinizing of a very well respected trainer and wife it only stands to reason why anyone else would be willing to step forth with valuable information. Its not that horsemen are afraid of the backlash at Hawthorne( anonymous names cover this) its the constant relentless badgering from a few know it all posters on here that people just dont want to deal with. Thanks again E. for bringing forth information and withstanding all of this in the process  medal
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #86 on: December 11, 2012, 04:57:57 PM »

Is it any wonder why more horsemen at Hawthorne have not come forth and reported more firsthand news concerning the virus at Hawthorne. To go back and look at the 53 pages of ostracizing and scrutinizing of a very well respected trainer and wife

Bzzzzzt! No one is "ostracizing (?) and scrutinizing" any trainer and wife. This has nothing to do with them or their business. The claims of a poster to this forum are being questioned. Specifically, at the point, the following claims from the previous thread:

"the boogeman' ( who _more likely than not brought this in)"

and

"I'm also confident that if [my friend] felt that he had brought this virus into Hawthrne, he would be looking for answers.  Not covering it up."

So there you have it. A specific pointing of the finger at another horseman for bringing the bug in, as well as apparently some charge of trying to cover it up by someone. And this, to you, is something that should just go unremarked, and unquestioned?

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it only stands to reason why anyone else would be willing to step forth with valuable information.

And that is what those statements are to you ... valuable information? Sort of like your own claim of a coverup about being unable to leave at the beginning of the meet, I suppose, "valuable information" not to be questioned at all?

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Its not that horsemen are afraid of the backlash at Hawthorne( anonymous names cover this) its the constant relentless badgering from a few know it all posters on here that people just dont want to deal with.

How are we coming along with uncovering those elusive "transcripts of the outbreak" at Beulah?

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Thanks again E. for bringing forth information

I did notice she didn't seem anxious to repeat the claim that the horse didn't pass away at Kendall Road, like before.

But it IS a fact that at this point all we have is the word of the association vet and someone at Midwest Thoroughbreds and presumably some staff at Kendall Road clinic that this was pneumonia, and it's true the horse might have got sick in Barn A. So decide for yourselves.

Still, that's a much weaker case than it was before Cory and Marcus spoke up with their info. So if one really MUST be looking back at "what caused this", for whatever reason one might want to do that, maybe you want to take a closer look at the leading theory that's appeared both here as rumor and also a few times in print - that it came in with "some horses in New York" to Barn A in the Fall. Who brought in horses from New York? What horses were they? Where did they come from? Who shipped them? Etc. What's the "coverup" on this forum against investigating that theory?
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g3tPWNed_24
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« Reply #87 on: December 11, 2012, 05:44:08 PM »

i thought reid's horse was a exception to that? terry if this outbreak was at arlington i bet youd be all over dick d& them on this forum like flies on sh1t. youre definately not making hawthorne look any better or changing anyones opinion about how theve handled things by constantly going back and forth with denise. kinda odd the other resident defender of hawthorne on this board throughout the years horsevoice has completely disappeared recently.............wonder why



Haven't all 6 of the herpes horses that have passed displayed definite neurological symptoms?
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beobob
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« Reply #88 on: December 11, 2012, 05:54:46 PM »

Hawthorne also can't be defended for allowing new horses into the quarantined population.  I agree the state vet shouldn't let it happen, and the ITHA should fight them tooth and nail for doing it, but Hathorne could stop shippers today if they wanted to show they were more interested in ending the quarantine than filling races.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #89 on: December 11, 2012, 06:03:38 PM »

i thought reid's horse was a exception to that?

I didn't read any real details between positive Monday, quarantine barn Wednesday, seems okay Thursday, and gone Friday, as far as what happened or what symptoms the horse was exhibiting. IIRC about Denise's horse she said it was fine one day and gone the next, too.

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terry if this outbreak was at arlington i bet youd be all over dick d& them on this forum like flies on sh1t.

You're entitled to whatever opinion you care to hold, and it makes no difference.

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youre definately not making hawthorne look any better or changing anyones opinion about how theve handled things by constantly going back and forth with denise.

Doesn't matter one way or the other.

And why would you think I would suddenly, after all these years, start caring what you think about I what I write, anyhow?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #90 on: December 11, 2012, 06:05:40 PM »

Hawthorne also can't be defended for allowing new horses into the quarantined population.  I agree the state vet shouldn't let it happen, and the ITHA should fight them tooth and nail for doing it, but Hathorne could stop shippers today if they wanted to show they were more interested in ending the quarantine than filling races.

If there's only a little trickle of a few coming in, like Jim M. said, it can hardly be about filling races. Have you contacted him to ask why?
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g3tPWNed_24
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« Reply #91 on: December 11, 2012, 06:07:44 PM »

i guess what "jim m" says is always 100% truth and gospel in your eyes huh LOL


If there's only a little trickle of a few coming in, like Jim M. said, it can hardly be about filling races. Have you contacted him to ask why?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #92 on: December 11, 2012, 06:09:46 PM »

i guess what "jim m" says is always 100% truth and gospel in your eyes huh LOL

Well, fine then, since you're calling him a liar, you tell us all the real number of horses coming in. Horse names that shipped in and for whom, with dates.
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« Reply #93 on: December 11, 2012, 06:17:03 PM »

Thanks Sport,
I was given the information above from Rood and Riddle, so they weren't my words, just the result of a phone call to the person (practicing vet) who helped to deal with the Ohio outbreak.

And Terry doesn't bother me.  It would actually be kind of fun to see how many times we can get him to repeat himself. Smiley

My point was simply that it is possible that it was mistaken in the pony because of the similar symptoms.

And also, I still have a horse in the quarantine barn that had nasal discharge, a temp over 102, respiratory stress, etc, that tested positive for the neurological, yet never showed signs of physical instability....
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g3tPWNed_24
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« Reply #94 on: December 11, 2012, 06:17:17 PM »

I dont work at the security gates on laramie and cicero nor do i work for the track but maybe ill go ask some1 who works at either of those gates to come on here and post the numbers for you LOL. where did i directly call him anything? If you think hes incapable of lying or even going out there against his will and telling something other than the complete truth because hes paid to then youre high

Well, fine then, since you're calling him a liar, you tell us all the real number of horses coming in. Horse names that shipped in and for whom, with dates.
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« Reply #95 on: December 11, 2012, 06:20:41 PM »

Absolutely no one is blaming whoever brought this in....it most definitely wasn't planned, and I'm sure they don't feel good about it.  It wasn't their fault !!!  How it was handled afterwards by others has been the issue right along.  It is important to have an idea on where this virus has been, and where it might go...epidemiology 101..
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #96 on: December 11, 2012, 06:25:11 PM »

I dont work at the security gates on laramie and cicero nor do i work for the track but maybe ill go ask some1 who works at either of those gates to come on here and post the numbers for you LOL.

Fine. Please do. It would be a big change from the usual vague accusations posted here that consistently crash against the rocks of requests for names, dates, numbers, etc.

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where did i directly call him anything?

I had written, "If there's only a little trickle of a few coming in, like Jim M. said" and you immediately took that to task with if I think what he says is the truth, etc. What else you could you have been saying, than you yourself don't believe it?

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If you think hes incapable of lying or even going out there against his will and telling something other than the complete truth because hes paid to then youre high

He puts what he says in writing for any one to check. So please, go ahead and detail for us the things he's written that do not represent the truth, and the hard evidence you have to back up your claims that they are not the truth
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« Reply #97 on: December 11, 2012, 06:28:09 PM »

Jim M is a really great guy.  I don't know of anyone that doesn't like him, truly.  It's just his nature.
He also has a job, and superiors to answer to.  Why should he jeopardise himself, even if he WANTED to if he were to know that it really wouldn't make a difference.  I think if ALOT of people were in his position, they would do the same.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #98 on: December 11, 2012, 06:28:16 PM »

And also, I still have a horse in the quarantine barn that had nasal discharge, a temp over 102, respiratory stress, etc, that tested positive for the neurological, yet never showed signs of physical instability....

Have any of the herpes horses died without showing any signs of physical instability? Your theory is based on the pony dying, not simply some horse that was sick during the summer.
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« Reply #99 on: December 11, 2012, 06:29:13 PM »

So, you know that the pony never went down...
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