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Author Topic: Why is nothing being done at Hawthorne  (Read 33358 times)
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #950 on: December 01, 2012, 04:53:06 PM »

We have, a couple of others that I personally know of have, but honestly,  when you have a couple of trainers saying to the press that everyone is doing everything possible, bah, blah, blah...that's what is being put out there.

Maybe that is what they honestly believe?
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Equiforce
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« Reply #951 on: December 01, 2012, 05:31:13 PM »

It's hard to say.  Sometimes it's just politics.  Other times, the trainers don't even come down here to Hawthorne, so what good is it to get "quotes" from them.

I believe you are correct about no more shipping in as we'll.

I don't believe Milones had a fatality as some were recently saying.  We have diff. Vets.  I did hear he had a horse tested that was questionable ( heard that on here ) but that it tested neg.

@Bob, we are supposed to have an organization that steps up....

And thank you for the nice words.

@Sparky...will do !  Something is going to happen soon.





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dano-themano
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« Reply #952 on: December 01, 2012, 07:22:37 PM »

I was hoping mine would be back at FP after this meet. Doesn't look like that's going to happen at this rate.

The quarantine will continue past the Haw meet and then it will be up to FP or other tracks what their entry policy is.  I'm glad your nice horse is doing well but would have to think you will be in the windy city for a while.
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Chris Szulc
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« Reply #953 on: December 01, 2012, 07:28:58 PM »

An aside, Denise - great victory today with Call to Glory. I am sure Stu et al are very happy!!
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brivolta
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« Reply #954 on: December 01, 2012, 07:57:03 PM »

The quarantine will continue past the Haw meet and then it will be up to FP or other tracks what their entry policy is.  I'm glad your nice horse is doing well but would have to think you will be in the windy city for a while.

Ya I fully expect her to be there until the spring meet. It's a bummer because it's nice to drive 20 minutes to see her instead of 4 hours...plus the difference in daily rate doesn't hurt either Smiley
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Equiforce
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« Reply #955 on: December 01, 2012, 08:07:06 PM »

Thanks Chris.

I bought in to him last week Smiley

I didn't make it to the race though.  Sick toddler at home.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #956 on: December 01, 2012, 08:09:45 PM »

Dano,
You are probably right, but I'm really hoping that once racing ends on the 30th, they will finally get this under control. 
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« Reply #957 on: December 01, 2012, 08:11:40 PM »

It's near the end of the meet.  Many horses have been running all year and are sick, sore and/or sour.  This morning another horse snapped his leg during training and was put down.  Anyone having a sick, tired, sour and/or hurting horse can't kick them out for proper rest and a much needed period of time off.  Instead they are in jail, in contaminated stalls locked up for the foreseeable future.  Welcome to the hotel California where you can check in but can't checkout.

Yes I know some trainers use Hawthorne to prep for Oaklawn, Fairgounds and Tampa but I really don't think any were pointing to the Hawthorne meet.  Stresses, sick horses and stressed trainers and owners.  It's a bad recipe.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #958 on: December 01, 2012, 09:20:35 PM »

Very bad recipe.  I simply want to bring my pony home and I can't. 

This has hurt so many people.  Yet the show goes on...
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #959 on: December 01, 2012, 09:37:12 PM »

As long as a trainer/owner continued to run/claim after the outbreak, any pity parties about wanting to take horses off the property ring hollow imo
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Equiforce
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« Reply #960 on: December 01, 2012, 10:05:57 PM »

Pity parties ?

We aren't going to sit here and let Hawthorne put us out of business.  They've already locked us in the hole here.
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #961 on: December 01, 2012, 10:29:42 PM »

We aren't going to sit here and let Hawthorne put us out of business.  They've already locked us in the hole here.


You should acknowledge that you're putting your financials above the health of your horses
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dano-themano
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« Reply #962 on: December 01, 2012, 10:53:00 PM »

Just a moment of congratulations to this thread, which is about to cross 40 pages and 1000 posts.  The way things are going, it should hit 2000, but I hope against it.

So we are running our Illinois Bred Filly in a 2L Allowance at Beulah for $5200, rather than the $$$ that might have been at Haw.  Sorry for everybody impacted, including us.  I talk to other trainers who are losing customers like wildfire who are opting to points south, rather than winter in Stickney--given the virus and quarantine.

Ironically, many trainers and owners who are stuck at Hawthorne are making decent money.  Certainly is a captive participant pool

Very difficult situation for most, though.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #963 on: December 01, 2012, 10:53:36 PM »

We aren't going to sit here and let Hawthorne put us out of business.  They've already locked us in the hole here.

To me it seems a lot more like certain trainers are doing their best to put Hawthorne out of business, by not following the protocols and prolonging this outbreak. You'd think especially the guys who are here every year Fall and Spring would be worried about what they might be doing to the viability of the track long term. You'd think the ITHA would be leaning on its members to do their best to avoid swapping the virus around.
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« Reply #964 on: December 01, 2012, 11:46:44 PM »

Agreed Terry. 
We really have no leadership.  The ITHA made a token gesture by buying some bleach and gloves, but ultimatly started telling the guys after about a week that they could either pick up one or the other. It doesn't affect us, because we are supplying our own barn, but a lot of people can't.
We tried to put pressure on frontside to get a sound plan together, and stick to it, but have absolutely no trainers speaking up.  Are they complaining at the rail ? Yaaaa, are they complaining to other people ?  Yaaaa....but that's it.

At a certain point, watching the other trainers in our barn blatantly ignore protocol....day after day...it was pointless to take a stand. 

The state vets office changes the rules, daily....

When divitos horse died...complete total shut down of barn A...no training, nothing....we seemed to gain some ground  until our horse was strickened and had to be put down...NOT because of this virus, but because the state vet determined it was logical to WALK a neurological horse, 150 yards, to K2 when she could barely walk down the shed.  Consequently, she collapsed probably 30 yards into her marathon, bashed her head repeatedly and had to be euthanised.  This filly was on the improve. Slightly, but she could have lived.

That same day, three of our suspicious horses were tested, ultimately found to be positive, and moved to K2, and the same day as well, Reavis had a horse tested and moved.  That's 5 suspicious horses, in 1 day ! 
The following day, we didn't train.  Kept the horses in...Reavis and Campbell trained.
2 days after the horse died and 4 horses moved to k2, Reavis trained again...we did not.  We had a horse entered and scratched him, 5 minutes til LASIX. Reavis had horses in, and ran....no one stopped either of us.  When questioned about this, the state vet simply blew it off.  In front of Tim Carey, in front of Jim Miller.  But horses were allowed to continue to run and train.

The next horse was Steve Manleys horse.  She was strickened.  After talking to the vet and and Dale, since we do share a vet, they convinced Steve NOT to let them move his filly.
Becker had horses in that day...the state vets office scratched his horses.
Steves horse is doing very well.  Would our horse have survived ?

Rodriquezs' horse was next.  That one died. 3 days later he ran a horse.  Incidentally, after that horse died, that barn was told to train in the after normal training hours session, just to be safe, and not during regular training hours with the general training.  3 days later, business as usual, the horses in Rodriguezs' barn...allowed to run...

5 days later, today, Reavis has a fatality.  The horse lays dead in the stall for 4 hours, while horses walked by, headed to the track.  When we asked if we were allowed to train this morning as a result of a death in our barn, we were told to go ahead and train.  In addition, we raced 2 horses today, out of this barn, and Reavis ran 4, out of the same shed row where his horse was removed an hour and a half prior.


The ONLY CONSISTANCY, is that there s NO CONSISTANCY.



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Red Ketcher
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« Reply #965 on: December 02, 2012, 12:53:53 AM »


 Continuing spread and deaths indicate the containment measures of the State and Track have failed and seems to  have generated an escalating climate of No Confidence.

 So if No Confidence on this,  how can the State and Track be trusted to maintain integrity  in the racing ?

 And if No Confidence on this , how can the State and Track be deemed proper guardians of Slots and Gaming ?

 ( Granted this is Illinois , and lack of diligence should be no surprise, but still ?)
 
 
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #966 on: December 02, 2012, 12:56:46 AM »

To lighten this thread for one post:

Congratulations to Dale and EquiForce on their win on Saturday and also to our own Janice on her win too.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #967 on: December 02, 2012, 02:04:29 AM »

Did he have one put down due to other causes?

Nope
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« Reply #968 on: December 02, 2012, 09:21:41 AM »

i agree with you denise (equiforce) about the leadership or lack there of, you kinda summed up the supposed leadership for the horsemen in your post when you mentioned who kept right on training. Im absolutely disgusted as are many people by the way the whole situation has been handled by the track&horsemen. of course theyre(track) not gonna tell anyone to stop training for any prolonged period of time, they want people to be able to enter horses! what weve heard from them is bull sh1t like outta 1900 horses only x amount have tested positive and or died like its a good thing its been that few outta the equine population, the horses are just a number to them but of course the real number thats only cared about is money sadly enough. We wonder why racing locally and nationally has been dying a slow death for as long as its been, i love the animals and the sport more than i can ever say but were doing it to ourselves
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« Reply #969 on: December 02, 2012, 09:44:55 AM »

Seriously Dan youre gonna cry again about where you have to run? Youre free to run wherever, nobody here is. Horses here are getting sick and or dying and its going on 2 months and it isnt even being closed to being under control and all your horses are im guessing healthy but here you are whining again. Just exactly what money are you missing out by on not running here?Huh? what were you gonna do put her in for the dime at hawthorne and go for the extra bonus money for ILL bred? youd be 20/1 ML like you are at beulah(i looked at the pp's for the race and in all fairness you shouldnt be as high as 20-1 ml in the beulah race, race actually sets up well for you if everyone runs) or higher. your fillys lifetime best race to date tho doesnt win the dime here and would MAYBE have her competitive for the nickel nw2L here, If you run her where she can win she might get some confidence and improve for you in the future(i like her pedigree). As i said in your turfway post i sincerely wish you the best of luck and ive heard youre a nice guy but please quit whining about yourself when alotta people here are in a lot worse situation then yourself.

Just a moment of congratulations to this thread, which is about to cross 40 pages and 1000 posts.  The way things are going, it should hit 2000, but I hope against it.

So we are running our Illinois Bred Filly in a 2L Allowance at Beulah for $5200, rather than the $$$ that might have been at Haw.  Sorry for everybody impacted, including us.  I talk to other trainers who are losing customers like wildfire who are opting to points south, rather than winter in Stickney--given the virus and quarantine.

Ironically, many trainers and owners who are stuck at Hawthorne are making decent money.  Certainly is a captive participant pool

Very difficult situation for most, though.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #970 on: December 02, 2012, 10:40:08 AM »

Continuing spread and deaths indicate the containment measures of the State and Track have failed and seems to  have generated an escalating climate of No Confidence.

 So if No Confidence on this,  how can the State and Track be trusted to maintain integrity  in the racing ?

That's actually a pretty good parallel, and one I had thought of myself.

In the realm of integrity, there are too many horsemen for the State and track to police 100%. If some are bent on cheating and corrupting racing, it's probably going to happen. I think we all know it does, to some extent. The best the State and track can do is try to keep it down to a dull roar.

Same goes for this situation. If the horsemen aren't all going to do their part to make it a success, the measures the State and track put in place aren't going be 100% successful.
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« Reply #971 on: December 02, 2012, 10:46:32 AM »

Thank you Dan for the congrats.  I was really happy for the partnership.  

Best of luck to you as well in your race.   I know of about 1500 horses here that would sure prefer Beulah to Hawthorne right now...just for health and future racing potential reasons. ( and I've been to Beulah, years ago when I shipped down there to ride a few) NOT my fav. Place..but, I'd go tomorrow, if they'd let me.

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« Reply #972 on: December 02, 2012, 10:52:57 AM »

As long as human element is involved, there will never be 100% integrity in horse racing...OR basketball, OR football OR soccer, etc. 
What do we do ?  Eliminate sports.  That's worse than taking the pledge of Allegience out of schools..!
You hit the nail on the head, Terry.  They try to keep it to a dull roar...
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #973 on: December 02, 2012, 11:05:36 AM »

On another note, I was told last week of a horse in Champaign, Illinois that has also tested positive. Why has there been no mention of this. (Unless I missed it)  The fact that this has migrated off the grounds at Hawthorne should be of major concern.

Has there been any independent verification of this story?
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dano-themano
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« Reply #974 on: December 02, 2012, 11:18:07 AM »

Seriously Dan youre gonna cry again about where you have to run? Youre free to run wherever, nobody here is. Horses here are getting sick and or dying and its going on 2 months and it isnt even being closed to being under control and all your horses are im guessing healthy but here you are whining again. Just exactly what money are you missing out by on not running here?Huh? what were you gonna do put her in for the dime at hawthorne and go for the extra bonus money for ILL bred? youd be 20/1 ML like you are at beulah(i looked at the pp's for the race and in all fairness you shouldnt be as high as 20-1 ml in the beulah race, race actually sets up well for you if everyone runs) or higher. your fillys lifetime best race to date tho doesnt win the dime here and would MAYBE have her competitive for the nickel nw2L here, If you run her where she can win she might get some confidence and improve for you in the future(i like her pedigree). As i said in your turfway post i sincerely wish you the best of luck and ive heard youre a nice guy but please quit whining about yourself when alotta people here are in a lot worse situation then yourself.


Yes, If she fit the race I was going to run her for $10k for the Ill Money, which is why I claimed her.  If not, I would run her for $5k.  My post said I am sorry for everyone impacted.

I am not crying or whining.  This is a forum and I am expressing my feelings.  It is a tough situation to lose a condition for such small money. 

What does concern me is the potential spread of the virus when the quarantine is lifted.  While I do feel your pain, we are all impacted.
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