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Author Topic: Why is nothing being done at Hawthorne  (Read 33435 times)
Equiforce
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« Reply #200 on: November 17, 2012, 12:39:42 AM »

Dan,
If you aren't a horsemen I hardly feel that you are qualified to make assumptions.
Example, when you take your child to the doctor  because they are sick, oftentimes the doctor will send you home and say,...it needs to run its course.
This is the nature of ths virus.  There is no treatment or vaccine for this particular strain.  Basically, you have to hope that your horses natural immunity can fight off the virus.  If that turns out to be the case, they can "shed" the virus and pass it to other horses.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #201 on: November 17, 2012, 12:42:01 AM »

Thoroughbred,
Agreed,  communicate with ARLINGTON...THEY are right up the road.  They will help.
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #202 on: November 17, 2012, 01:20:11 AM »

Ah ... "Spring Welfare Meet" ... that's what we're calling Illinois horseman earning purses in Illinois during the first four months of the year now that Churchill/Arlington wants those simulcast dates for its own out-of-state welfare. Well, you're consistent if nothing else, TM.   

No, that's what I call 5 horse field for state-bred $5000n2l's. 

I'm not going to make this into an Arlington/Hawthorne battle.  I don't know what Arlington would have done in this situation, it's irrelevant.  The only thing that matters is that Hawthorne has failed.  I don't blame Hawthorne for the existence of disease, but I blame Hawthorne for how its handled it. 
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #203 on: November 17, 2012, 09:31:15 AM »

No, that's what I call 5 horse field for state-bred $5000n2l's. 

I'm not going to make this into an Arlington/Hawthorne battle.  I don't know what Arlington would have done in this situation, it's irrelevant.  The only thing that matters is that Hawthorne has failed.  I don't blame Hawthorne for the existence of disease, but I blame Hawthorne for how its handled it. 

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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #204 on: November 17, 2012, 09:37:39 AM »

What I don't understand is why they cant just test every single horse on the grounds
I'll repeat for the 97th time information that's been relayed to me by multiple "experts": Blanket testing is ineffective. You can test a random equine population where there's not been an EHV-1 outbreak and get something like a 30% positive rate.
and remove the infected ones from the population. What is so hard about that?  
That is the LAST thing that should or would be allowed. While it sucks horses at HAW are all at risk right now, if authorities let horses leave and can't track their whereabouts, the virus (and this is obvioulsy a hot version of it) could easily spread into other equine populations.

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brivolta
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« Reply #205 on: November 17, 2012, 09:38:30 AM »

I just talked to Steve. Campo Joti is still alive. Has not improved but has not deteriorated any more from yesterday. They have her stabilized but that's about it right now.

Unfortunately my filly now has a fever. It was 103 last night but down to 101 this morning. He said mine is acting totally fine and you wouldn't know anything was wrong by looking at her. I am praying that she shakes this.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #206 on: November 17, 2012, 09:41:57 AM »

I just talked to Steve. Campo Joti is still alive. Has not improved but has not deteriorated any more from yesterday. They have her stabilized but that's about it right now.

Unfortunately my filly now has a fever. It was 103 last night but down to 101 this morning. He said mine is acting totally fine and you wouldn't know anything was wrong by looking at her. I am praying that she shakes this.

Not to offer false hope, but the odds are on your side: Even if a horse has a neuropathic strain of the EHV-1 virus there's still only a small chance it will progress to the neurologic phase. There are fevers all over the backstretch because there's virus all over the backstretch, but the number of neurologic cases remains low - mercifully, and may it so continue.
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thoroughbred
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« Reply #207 on: November 17, 2012, 09:56:54 AM »

I'll repeat for the 97th time information that's been relayed to me by multiple "experts": Blanket testing is ineffective. You can test a random equine population where there's not been an EHV-1 outbreak and get something like a 30% positive rate.That is the LAST thing that should or would be allowed. While it sucks horses at HAW are all at risk right now, if authorities let horses leave and can't track their whereabouts, the virus (and this is obvioulsy a hot version of it) could easily spread into other equine populations.



Marcus, I am not suggesting just letting the horses leave Hawthorne. I am suggesting the state take the infected horses to a quarantine area away from the track. I also understand that horses can carry the virus but not be affected by it. This however is not a situation where there isn't an outbreak, we have in your words a hot version of it, so every horse that tests positive should be removed from the population until this has run it's course. What about allowing horses that test negative be allowed to leave? Would that be possible? It makes me sick to think that heathy horses are continuing to be put at risk of infection while this whole cluster f**K continues.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #208 on: November 17, 2012, 10:10:58 AM »

I am suggesting the state take the infected horses to a quarantine area away from the track.
Horses that test positive or have shown neurologic symptoms are being isolated. Whether this is being done in an adequate manner is another question.
What about allowing horses that test negative be allowed to leave?
The track is quarantined. That means no one leaves until there's good reason (whether this be 28 days after last symptomatic horse, or after a fixed amount of time following negative tests - whatever is established) to believe the virus no longer is circulating.
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #209 on: November 17, 2012, 10:13:29 AM »

What happens if this is still going on at the end of the meet?  No horse can leave? 
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brivolta
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« Reply #210 on: November 17, 2012, 10:14:52 AM »

Not to offer false hope, but the odds are on your side: Even if a horse has a neuropathic strain of the EHV-1 virus there's still only a small chance it will progress to the neurologic phase. There are fevers all over the backstretch because there's virus all over the backstretch, but the number of neurologic cases remains low - mercifully, and may it so continue.

Thanks Marcus. I keep trying to remind myself of that. Scary, nonetheless.
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mel4600
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« Reply #211 on: November 17, 2012, 10:15:12 AM »

Wow, I can't believe I missed this entire thread. Things seem really bad there right now. I think thoroughbred has a valid point about allowing horses that test negative to leave, maybe to Arlington where they can remain for whatever time necessary to determine they have not contracted the virus. This is a sad situation and I am glad that it has been brought to the forefront by Equiforce so everyone can work together and do their part to beat this dreadful disease. I seen a horse die from this disease back in 1997 (I believe) and it was terrible.
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Pal B
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« Reply #212 on: November 17, 2012, 10:15:21 AM »

Marcus, I am not suggesting just letting the horses leave Hawthorne. I am suggesting the state take the infected horses to a quarantine area away from the track. I also understand that horses can carry the virus but not be affected by it. This however is not a situation where there isn't an outbreak, we have in your words a hot version of it, so every horse that tests positive should be removed from the population until this has run it's course. What about allowing horses that test negative be allowed to leave? Would that be possible? It makes me sick to think that heathy horses are continuing to be put at risk of infection while this whole cluster f**K continues.

I agree. There needs to be a site away from the track where infected animals can go to eliminate the possibility of rodents, cats, people, etc from spreading the disease. I read where the virus can live 7-30 days on a surface if the conditions are right? Seems that could be possible since they thought they had it under control and it has re-appeared. Get the horses off site where they can get some grass and help their natural defenses.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #213 on: November 17, 2012, 11:30:40 AM »

No, that's what I call 5 horse field for state-bred $5000n2l's.

Running for purse money earned in the Illinois program for benefit of the Illinois racing industry, money which you in your infinite wisdom would rather distribute to some out-of-state barn running at a meet owned by an out-of-state corporation where the wagering commissions that generate purses are sucked out of the state by that same corporation's ADW.

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I'm not going to make this into an Arlington/Hawthorne battle.

Of course you are, you always do. It's behind every post you make about Hawthorne.

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I don't know what Arlington would have done in this situation, it's irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that Hawthorne has failed.

So that is why you brought up the subject of "the Spring Welfare meet".

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I don't blame Hawthorne for the existence of disease, but I blame Hawthorne for how its handled it.

To the extent they're responsible, that's fair enough. But your earlier posts entirely ignored the role of the State in the affair, which is actually the entity in charge, as well as that of horsemen, and that position is neither fair nor balanced.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #214 on: November 17, 2012, 11:36:05 AM »

That is the LAST thing that should or would be allowed. While it sucks horses at HAW are all at risk right now, if authorities let horses leave and can't track their whereabouts, the virus (and this is obvioulsy a hot version of it) could easily spread into other equine populations.

I'm sure that's why there seems to be so much interest in this from out-of-state, too. That outbreak at the Utah cutting horse show in 2011 (2010?) ended up sickening horses all over the West even up to early this year, and caused the cancellation of a number of events to prevent bringing horses together. They even closed facilities where horses from that show had stopped overnight.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Mick
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« Reply #215 on: November 17, 2012, 11:38:18 AM »

Wow, I can't believe I missed this entire thread. Things seem really bad there right now.

Like mel, I've been preoccupied and missed this event.   It reminds me of the old James Harriot books, all creatures great and small.

He wrote about events like this inj the farmlands of Yorkshire England.   Occasionally some disease would spread and kill many animals, and the vets were often helpless to stop the deaths.   In most cases, no one knew what caused these events, you just hoped to survive them.  
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Chartwell
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« Reply #216 on: November 17, 2012, 11:46:19 AM »

While I understand that Arlington's barns are not winterized I wonder why the following has not been suggested. After all the weather is not so bad currently. Move every horse with a positive test to Arlington. Allow the negative horses to run at Hawthorne and test them if they show any signs of the virus. Use the barns at Arlington to spread out the horses from each other with the non neurological horses kept away from the really sick animals. Require that any horse testing positive remain at Arlington for 21 days after their last negative test. Separate the individuals taking care of these animals from the healthy horses at Hawthorne. Have horsemen work together to deal with the issues of working out of two locations but end this outbreak ASAP. Thoughts?

Please don't tell me Arlington won't work with horsemen and Hawthorne on this. They have an interest in Illinois racing just as much as horsemen do!
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thoroughbred
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« Reply #217 on: November 17, 2012, 11:54:23 AM »

I'm sure that's why there seems to be so much interest in this from out-of-state, too. That outbreak at the Utah cutting horse show in 2011 (2010?) ended up sickening horses all over the West even up to early this year, and caused the cancellation of a number of events to prevent bringing horses together. They even closed facilities where horses from that show had stopped overnight.

I will say once again, I am not suggesting just letting infected horses leave. I am saying the STATE TAKE the horses to a quarantine area away from the track. I also understand the logistical nightmare this presents, but the alternative is not acceptable. Another thing, I don't know if this is being done or not but, there should be a totally separate group of people handling the infected horses who do nothing but that. No one else enters the quarantine barns, no unauthorized people allowed in. We can't rely on trainers and grooms to suit up and disinfect after handling a sick horse. The sick animals are off limits to anyone other than authorize personnel. I am just brainstorming here. If any of my suggestions are already being implemented, please forgive me.
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #218 on: November 17, 2012, 12:09:28 PM »

Of course you are, you always do. It's behind every post you make about Hawthorne.

Don't fall into that HV trap of creating motive behind posts. 

I've been on the record that I enjoy Hawthorne's fall meet until they stop running on the turf.  It's a good meet with decent-sized, competitive fields that bettors can get behind.  I want Hawthorne's fall meet to succeed; it was dealt a bad hand this year.  Instead of folding, it's upping the ante and making it worse. 

Hawthorne needed to manage the quarantine, and they've failed.  This is going to do irreparable harm to Illinois racing if the media gets ahold of this and paints the picture that Hawthorne put gambling and profit before the health of the horses. 
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #219 on: November 17, 2012, 12:16:27 PM »

While I understand that Arlington's barns are not winterized I wonder why the following has not been suggested. After all the weather is not so bad currently. Move every horse with a positive test to Arlington. Allow the negative horses to run at Hawthorne and test them if they show any signs of the virus. Use the barns at Arlington to spread out the horses from each other with the non neurological horses kept away from the really sick animals. Require that any horse testing positive remain at Arlington for 21 days after their last negative test. Separate the individuals taking care of these animals from the healthy horses at Hawthorne. Have horsemen work together to deal with the issues of working out of two locations but end this outbreak ASAP. Thoughts?

Please don't tell me Arlington won't work with horsemen and Hawthorne on this. They have an interest in Illinois racing just as much as horsemen do!

I doubt they want diseased horses on the grounds. As I said in a previous post, some of the facilities out west closed their doors or cancelled events simply because a possibly exposed horse had passed through. Whether it's correct or not, there muct be a belief out there that the virus can hang around lurking in a barn area.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #220 on: November 17, 2012, 12:17:58 PM »

It's also against the infectious disease law previously discussed to move diseased horses along any public highway, presumably aiming to prevent the virus from escaping along the way.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
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« Reply #221 on: November 17, 2012, 12:20:13 PM »

Quote from: The Turf Monster link=topic=53193.msg600381#msg600381
Hawthorne needed to manage the quarantine, and they've failed.

Once again, Hawthorne isn't in charge of this. The State is.

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This is going to do irreparable harm to Illinois racing if the media gets ahold of this and paints the picture that Hawthorne put gambling and profit before the health of the horses.

It's already done harm the day the first horse turned up sick. People aren't going to want to ship to Hawthorne, and it will probably affect Arlington, too.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
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« Reply #222 on: November 17, 2012, 12:22:49 PM »

Illinois and especially HAW will be suffering the impact of this long after the virus is brought under control. Many horsemen will be reluctant to return to HAW next spring. The spring meet could be in jeopardy.
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #223 on: November 17, 2012, 12:28:06 PM »

Once again, Hawthorne isn't in charge of this. The State is.

Hawthorne doesn't control its property and access thereon?  You might want to rethink your stance on this.
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« Reply #224 on: November 17, 2012, 12:35:36 PM »

While I understand that Arlington's barns are not winterized I wonder why the following has not been suggested. After all the weather is not so bad currently. Move every horse with a positive test to Arlington. Allow the negative horses to run at Hawthorne and test them if they show any signs of the virus. Use the barns at Arlington to spread out the horses from each other with the non neurological horses kept away from the really sick animals. Require that any horse testing positive remain at Arlington for 21 days after their last negative test. Separate the individuals taking care of these animals from the healthy horses at Hawthorne. Have horsemen work together to deal with the issues of working out of two locations but end this outbreak ASAP. Thoughts?

Please don't tell me Arlington won't work with horsemen and Hawthorne on this. They have an interest in Illinois racing just as much as horsemen do!

I tend to think along the lines of HBT here. I can see Arlington saying they don't want the sick horses on their grounds. That is why I suggested letting the horses that test negative leave. As Mel said, move them to Arlington and continue to monitor them. Arlington may or may not go for that. Ultimately, there needs to be complete separation of infected and non infected animals. I understand as Marcus stated earlier the sick horses are being quarantined, but obviously the effort is lacking or this thread wouldn't exist.
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