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Author Topic: Why is nothing being done at Hawthorne  (Read 35228 times)
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2012, 11:49:46 PM »

Yes, every single horse was vaccinated...AND AGAIN if you had ANY KNOWLEDGE of ths virus...you would know that there is no known vaccine for the neurological strain of this virus...your ignorance grows.....lol...if you shut up now, you MIGHT not look like a complete fool.....

You've still not illuminated the forum on how things "should have been" handled besides how they have been, either by the State or Hawthorne. The State failed to do anything about your horses with the suspicious sniffles you (or your vet) duly reported, or what? Should the State have moved them out of the common barn earlier, so you think?
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« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2012, 11:52:11 PM »

Thank you Zan.  It was our intention to inform the horsemen what is really happening with this virus.  EVERYONE, with the exception of one individual has been so comforting and supportive of our terrible loss this morning.

I do feel for your loss. The loss of any horse for any reason is tragic. What I don't feel much sympathy for is dumping blame on others.
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« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2012, 12:12:29 AM »

Very sorry to hear about your loss, Equiforce. I have been out of the loop on this mostly due to leaving the industry in Illinois (not due to this). It is extremely unfortunate that adequate precautions were not taken early on and unfortunately it looks like things might be turning for the worse if it is continuing to spread.

Why have the ponies used for the post parades been brought back? I understand they have all tested negative but can't they still act as intermediaries to transfer the virus?? Why wasn't this done in the beginning anyway? It possibly could have made the situation must worse.

Will they have to cancel racing? It certainly seems they can't get a hold on this thing.
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2012, 12:30:13 AM »

Terrible news Equiforce- my condolences to you & your partners.....


There is always going to be a few instigators & apologists that speak from there anal cavity.

Arlington is a leader in safety & procedures- unlike Hawthorne  (which I kindly describe as an outdated dump)..
I think Hawthorne has done all it can to brush this under the rug & continue business as usual.
We hear bits & pieces of info usually through second or third hand channels.

How come I do not see Hawthorne on this list of accredited facilities?

 Arlington is one of 20 racing facilities to receive full accreditation. Others are Churchill Downs, Keeneland, Belmont Park, Delaware Park, Hollywood Park, Monmouth Park, Saratoga Race Course, Calder Race Course, Turfway Park, the Del Mar Thoroughbred Club, Oak Tree at Santa Anita/Santa Anita Park, Fair Grounds, Aqueduct Racetrack, Pimlico Race Course, Golden Gate Fields, Woodbine, Canterbury Park, Sunland Park and, most recently, Finger Lakes Casino and Racetrack.

 

The Alliance, formed in October 2008 with the goal of establishing national uniform standards in the areas of safety and integrity, includes 55 racetracks in North America and every major national horsemen’s organization. Alliance certification standards cover six broad areas: injury reporting and prevention; creating a safer racing environment; aftercare and transition of retired racehorses; uniform medication, testing and penalties; safety research; and wagering security. Within those six categories, specific standards focus on areas including:

·                     Systematic reporting of equine injuries

·                     Aftercare of racehorses

·                     Pre- and post-race veterinary examinations

·                     Post-mortem examinations

·                     Health and safety of jockeys

·                     Riding crops and their use

·                     Horse shoes and hoof care

·                     Safety research

·                     Safety equipment for jockeys and horse handlers

·                     Exogenous Anabolic Steroids

·                     Alkalinizing agents (TCO2)

·                     On-track emergency medical care for humans and equines

·                     Out-of-competition testing

·                     Freezing and retrospective testing of post race samples

·                     Continuing education

·                     Security assessment and training

·                     Totalizator technology and “stop wagering” protocols

·                     Wagering incident investigation

 

The NTRA Safety and Integrity Alliance is a standing organization whose purpose is to establish standards and practices to promote safety and integrity in horseracing and to secure their implementation. Information on the Alliance, including the Alliance Code of Standards, can be found at www.NTRAalliance.com.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2012, 12:43:22 AM »

Terrible news Equiforce- my condolences to you & your partners.....


There is always going to be a few instigators & apologists that speak from there anal cavity.

He says ...

Quote
Arlington is a leader in safety & procedures- unlike Hawthorne  (which I kindly describe as an outdated dump)..
I think Hawthorne has done all it can to brush this under the rug & continue business as usual.
We hear bits & pieces of info usually through second or third hand channels.

How come I do not see Hawthorne on this list of accredited facilities?

And how come there is only one item on the Code of Standards for accredited facilities that has anything at all to do with the subject at hand, infectious disease outbreaks?

Oh wait ... because infectious diseases is only one small paragraph of the code, indicating how little they care about it?

See J. Infectious Disease Management

 http://www.ntra.com/images/2012_Code_of_Standards.pdf
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2012, 12:57:26 AM »

I would think something is better then nothing..how long has this been going on for Terry?

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« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2012, 04:50:13 AM »

There is always going to be a few instigators & apologists that speak from there anal cavity.

Translation: Anyone that doesn't agree with PURPLE LAVERN.  Roll Eyes

Arlington is a leader in safety & procedures- unlike Hawthorne  (which I kindly describe as an outdated dump)..

From that Bastion of Objectivity, PURPLE LAVERN.  Roll Eyes

I think Hawthorne has done all it can to brush this under the rug & continue business as usual.

...but he offers no credible evidence to back up such slander. In fact, "Hawthorne has done all it can to brush this under the rug" is simply a goddamned LIE.


We hear bits & pieces of info usually through second or third hand channels.

Baloney. Jim Miller, the Horsemen's Association and the DRF are NOT "2nd and 3rd hand channels". If you think you are getting handwritten updates from the head vet, or being invited out for cocktails with Tom Carey for a private briefing, you are simply out of your tree. How many horses do you have, anyway, that you think you should be getting spoon-fed information? Two?  Roll Eyes

How come I do not see Hawthorne on this list of accredited facilities?

Because it isn't that important, and besides, the accreditation "standards" are so wide and varied that they are not standards at all! Just be able to justify what YOUR track is doing in a given area (i.e., gate safety, ambulance availability, etc.) the way YOU do it, and the commission will OK it. Oh, and don't forget that fat initial check, and annual dues thereafter! More useless NTRA overhead.  Roll Eyes

Arlington is one of 20 racing facilities to receive full accreditation.

Well, there it is. This post has nothing to do with the actual outbreak; there is no sincere sympathy for the owners of fallen horses -- just the usual bullshit of taking cheap shots at Hawthorne by someone who is a known mouthpiece for Arlington. Go away Purple A55hole -- you aren't helping anything here.

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« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2012, 05:42:42 AM »

So very sorry for your loss Euqiforce.  And I thank you greatly for posting this.  I have a horse entered for the weekend and was reading all the news that everything was on the mend...was actually considering coming in with a few horses.  Needless to say this will not be happening now.  I couldn't or wouldn't ever want to put my horses through anything like what you have described.                             
While I am a huge fan of Hawthorne and their management, I am no fan of some of the vets on hand there.  If there was a horse that tested positive in your barn and said horse horse was not immediately moved out and the other trainers informed is completely wrong on the parts of everyone that knew the situation and said nothing.  That would most defiantly have to include the trainers vet and the state vet. Management might not necessarily been informed.
Again, my deepest condolences on the lost of your horse.  And my greatest appreciation for the information you have provided.  Sadly though, at the cost of a life.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2012, 09:17:09 AM »

I would think something is better then nothing..how long has this been going on for Terry?

This is where I'm having difficulty understanding things. From what was posted at the ITHA site, when the first horses became infected in that barn A it was locked down, and everyone going into that barn was supposed to be wearing Tyvek suits and getting disinfected, and security was supposed to be monitoring, and so on to keep the infection from spreading.

See http://itharacing.com/weeklywhinnies/detail/detaillist/MjE3

Now, in the other thread, Equiforce says none of this was done, and that people went back and forth willy-nilly.

These guys posting are on the backstretch, not me, so I'll take their word, but who is it fell down on the job? The State for not making better quarantine procedures? Hawthorne for not actually enforcing the rules? Or horsemen and their help for not following them?
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« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2012, 09:19:58 AM »

While I am a huge fan of Hawthorne and their management, I am no fan of some of the vets on hand there.  If there was a horse that tested positive in your barn and said horse horse was not immediately moved out and the other trainers informed is completely wrong on the parts of everyone that knew the situation and said nothing.  That would most defiantly have to include the trainers vet and the state vet. Management might not necessarily been informed.

I certainly didn't understand this chain of events from Equiforce's first post, and I agree that's just wrong if that is what happened.
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« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2012, 09:41:25 AM »

In reference to your last posts Terry, I will give you a prime example and you can make of it what you will.
Yesterday, our horse died as an indirect (we were attempting to take her to the isolation barn) result of the virus. 
Yesterday, mike Reavis removed one of his horses to the isolation barn right around the same time.  His horse was exhibiting symptoms of neurological herpes ad was tested as well.
This morning, Mr. Reavis proceeded to train his stable alongside the general population on the race track. 
We opted to keep our entire stable in the barn for fear of spreading this virus any further.
So, where are the procedures here ?
We voluntarily protected others.
Had the same consideration been shown us, our filly might be alive.
BTW, the state vet was in fact with our horse yesterday When he was euthanized, so the state was WELL aware.
And last but not least, Hawthorne is the ONLY track that I have ever been to that requires no paperwork to get through the gate.  No coggins, no health certificate, nothing.  It's a free for all...
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« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2012, 09:42:32 AM »

Translation: Anyone that doesn't agree with PURPLE LAVERN.  Roll Eyes

From that Bastion of Objectivity, PURPLE LAVERN.  Roll Eyes

whats up voice rat

...but he offers no credible evidence to back up such slander. In fact, "Hawthorne has done all it can to brush this under the rug" is simply a goddamned LIE.

Baloney. Jim Miller, the Horsemen's Association and the DRF are NOT "2nd and 3rd hand channels". If you think you are getting handwritten updates from the head vet, or being invited out for cocktails with Tom Carey for a private briefing, you are simply out of your tree. How many horses do you have, anyway, that you think you should be getting spoon-fed information? Two?  Roll Eyes

shouldnt matter whether I own one, two, or twenty,...tell that to Equiforce....
If you had a kid at a school that got sick & passed from a virus would the comment that how many kids do you have two suffice? CMON MAN
It seems the only thing we have heard regarding this last death is from BTW- I would hardly call that free flowing information.


Because it isn't that important, and besides, the accreditation "standards" are so wide and varied that they are not standards at all! Just be able to justify what YOUR track is doing in a given area (i.e., gate safety, ambulance availability, etc.) the way YOU do it, and the commission will OK it. Oh, and don't forget that fat initial check, and annual dues thereafter! More useless NTRA overhead.  Roll Eyes

Well, there it is. This post has nothing to do with the actual outbreak; there is no sincere sympathy for the owners of fallen horses -- just the usual bullshit of taking cheap shots at Hawthorne by someone who is a known mouthpiece for Arlington. Go away Purple A55hole -- you aren't helping anything here.

I am hardly a  mouthpiece for Arlington & have bashed them accordingly but the bottom line is like comparing Sizzler to Gibsons.

Where is Hawthornes name on this accreditation list?

I am not an apologist like yourself & am allowed to have my opinions....Thats ok , thanks for the offer, but I will continue to list on anything that I please.
Go back to inhaling your black lung & keep apologizing for a substandard operation like Hawthorng.

P.s. There is 1 good thing about Hawthorne...Jim Miller- seems like a great guy....too bad he his talents are wasted


« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 09:44:48 AM by PURPLE LAVERN » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2012, 09:47:26 AM »

Due to the ongoing uncertainty, we have decided not to ship in this weekend.  Yes, we hoped to win a race.  But, who knows when, if ever, the horses we bring in will be released to us or allowed to run elsewhere.  This is a very bad situation and since Hawthorne is not putting the hammer on it, all I can do is make the best decision for us and our horses.  I love Chicago racing and hope they get an upper hand soon.
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« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2012, 11:30:49 AM »

I am hardly a  mouthpiece for Arlington & have bashed them accordingly

When? Where? Not on this Forum.

I am not an apologist like yourself & am allowed to have my opinions

Big difference between having opinions and telling flat-out lies: you said that Hawthorne is sweeping this virus outbreak under the rug, which is simply untrue.

And if you are NOT a mouthpiece for Arlington, why mention them at all now? What is their role or their place in this virus outbreak? What good does bringing them up do for the current situation at Hawthorne?

Yeah, I can't chase you away from here...but I can certainly expose you as the biased liar you are. Your comments here are viewed with extreme suspicion, if not rejected outright.
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« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2012, 11:50:26 AM »

When? Where? Not on this Forum.

Big difference between having opinions and telling flat-out lies: you said that Hawthorne is sweeping this virus outbreak under the rug, which is simply untrue.

I think Hawthorne has done all it can to brush this under the rug & continue business as usual.
those were my words, not a fact, just an opinion....Maybe the truth hurts.
I have seen owners like Chartwell posting on lack of info along with others not to mention Equiforces loss (which has still not been reported)

And if you are NOT a mouthpiece for Arlington, why mention them at all now? What is their role or their place in this virus outbreak? What good does bringing them up do for the current situation at Hawthorne?

Maybe you are right but can only compare them to what I know.  Have not been to other tracks but have been to both Arlington (often)  & Hawthorne  (recently to watch my horse run)
I see Arlington as the model for attracting new bettors & Hawthorne as the smelly old grandpa that is outdated & behind the times.

I see the paddock at Arlington washed after every race & a total commitment to cleanliness..



Yeah, I can't chase you away from here...but I can certainly expose you as the biased liar you are. Your comments here are viewed with extreme suspicion, if not rejected outright.

I have to chuckle as most of your posts are in reference to other peoples posts & opinions.
That is what a forum is about- an exchange of opinions.
Every post that I have seen from you is an outline & retort to another post.
Maybe you should come up with some original material without micro scouring every word & syllable from other posters.

You are obviosuly passionate about racing as am I, - & just call it like I see it  flag

Yes, I have been critical of Arlington..many times..from the treatment of their ARC members to the criminal price they charge for admission & food.

Personally, I think that gives me credibility unlike someone who is so glazed over with a single vision..Like one of those scary fanatics.
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« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2012, 12:01:24 PM »

Translation: Anyone that doesn't agree with PURPLE LAVERN.  Roll Eyes

From that Bastion of Objectivity, PURPLE LAVERN.  Roll Eyes

...but he offers no credible evidence to back up such slander. In fact, "Hawthorne has done all it can to brush this under the rug" is simply a goddamned LIE.

P.S. IT WOULD BE LIBEL MY FRIEND...usually I charge for that dollar dollar

Baloney. Jim Miller, the Horsemen's Association and the DRF are NOT "2nd and 3rd hand channels". If you think you are getting handwritten updates from the head vet, or being invited out for cocktails with Tom Carey for a private briefing, you are simply out of your tree. How many horses do you have, anyway, that you think you should be getting spoon-fed information? Two?  Roll Eyes

Because it isn't that important, and besides, the accreditation "standards" are so wide and varied that they are not standards at all! Just be able to justify what YOUR track is doing in a given area (i.e., gate safety, ambulance availability, etc.) the way YOU do it, and the commission will OK it. Oh, and don't forget that fat initial check, and annual dues thereafter! More useless NTRA overhead.  Roll Eyes

Well, there it is. This post has nothing to do with the actual outbreak; there is no sincere sympathy for the owners of fallen horses -- just the usual bullshit of taking cheap shots at Hawthorne by someone who is a known mouthpiece for Arlington. Go away Purple A55hole -- you aren't helping anything here.


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« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2012, 12:19:33 PM »

That is what a forum is about- an exchange of opinions.

Yes.

Perpetuating obviously FALSE information about "black lung air" and claiming Hawthorne is hiding information about a virus outbreak is NOT opinion sharing. It's a smear campaign...which is a fancy way of saying, "lies".

(It's a shame another horse died, but...what did you expect in the way of reporting, a SPECIAL NEWS BULLETIN on all the local TV stations? Marcus Hersh is working on the story right now. The matter is getting the appropriate level of attention ESPECIALLY when you consider that official sources tend to take time and get the facts correct...not like here, with wild reports of NO controls being followed, NO separation of quarantined and non-quarantined horses, etc...EXACTLY the reason why people need to be patient and wait for *qualified* information about what is going on.)

Every post that I have seen from you is an outline & retort to another post.
Maybe you should come up with some original material without micro scouring every word & syllable from other posters.

You're wrong. There is a Forum feature that allows you to review all posts made by a poster, and based on the comment above you've never reviewed the body of my posts -- which is OK, until you make erroneous statements about what I do or do not post.

And besides, with so much misinformation being spread on this Forum at times, sometimes issuing corrective posts becomes the bigger part of what I do here; I'm simply not going to let abject nonsense pass without comment. Don't like it? Do your part, then, and stop posting absolute bullshit and calling it your "opinion"; frankly, I could use a break.

Yes, I have been critical of Arlington..many times..from the treatment of their ARC members to the criminal price they charge for admission & food.

Not on this Forum, that I can find. All I see from you is rips on Hawthorne. If you can point me to some posts you've made on this Forum where you criticize Arlington, I will apologize promptly.

Personally, I think that gives me credibility...

...which gets destroyed the very first time you post fallacies about "black lung air" and other lies.
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« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2012, 12:28:55 PM »

In reference to your last posts Terry, I will give you a prime example and you can make of it what you will.
Yesterday, our horse died as an indirect (we were attempting to take her to the isolation barn) result of the virus.  

I misunderstood your original post, then. It appeared to be directly due to the virus.

Quote
Yesterday, mike Reavis removed one of his horses to the isolation barn right around the same time.  His horse was exhibiting symptoms of neurological herpes ad was tested as well. This morning, Mr. Reavis proceeded to train his stable alongside the general population on the race track. We opted to keep our entire stable in the barn for fear of spreading this virus any further. So, where are the procedures here ? We voluntarily protected others. Had the same consideration been shown us, our filly might be alive. BTW, the state vet was in fact with our horse yesterday When he was euthanized, so the state was WELL aware.

That certainly does seem to be contrary to common sense, so entirely understand your initial post.
  
Quote
And last but not least, Hawthorne is the ONLY track that I have ever been to that requires no paperwork to get through the gate.  No coggins, no health certificate, nothing.  It's a free for all...

Not even after the new rules were put in place according to the 10/26 update?

http://itharacing.com/weeklywhinnies/detail/detaillist/MjM0
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« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2012, 12:54:45 PM »

AFTER 10/26, implementing new entry paperwork seems amusing. 
Also, I did a video this morning of me, entering the contamination barn, freely walking around and leaving...with no one saying a word....there was NO security. 
I also took some great pictures of the caregivers of these horses, walking around the general barn area, standing up at the rail, watching horses train, in the same white suits that they were wearing in the isolation barn.  Really, isn't the idea to put the suit on when you enter the barn, remove it when you leave ? 
Anyone that thinks that this is acceptable, well, you must be completely ignorant.

I would also like to say that I've never used the term "willy nilly" in my life.

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« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2012, 01:07:04 PM »

I misunderstood your original post, then. It appeared to be directly due to the virus.

That certainly does seem to be contrary to common sense, so entirely understand your initial post.
  
Not even after the new rules were put in place according to the 10/26 update?

http://itharacing.com/weeklywhinnies/detail/detaillist/MjM0

I am wondering why you are not responding to Equiforce & his postings?

I dont have time to go through all of my posts but dug this one up...No need to apologize

128     General Category / Thoroughbred Racing / Re: AP vs. Hawthorne at IRB meeting today    on: September 25, 2012, 08:35:35 PM
I have to agree with much of what you said but still think that the Arlington people are all about slots & profit these days.

While yesteryear was about love of racing today is about bottom line.

Many Arlington regulars  (like myself) were basically discarded with the Arlington Park racing club that has eroded over the last few years.
The people that support Arlington were basically given no incentives or perks like years before.

Check out the preferred parking lot on a Thursday or Friday- which no longer is included.

These are small perks that were a nice thank you to the people that regularly showed up.

While I used to support AP it is now every person for themselves  (which is a shame)

Would never dream of writing a letter to the gov or any politician in Arlingtons favor...why should I help AP get slots when they can't even give me a program?
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« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2012, 01:14:48 PM »

AFTER 10/26, implementing new entry paperwork seems amusing. 
Also, I did a video this morning of me, entering the contamination barn, freely walking around and leaving...with no one saying a word....there was NO security. 
I also took some great pictures of the caregivers of these horses, walking around the general barn area, standing up at the rail, watching horses train, in the same white suits that they were wearing in the isolation barn.  Really, isn't the idea to put the suit on when you enter the barn, remove it when you leave ? 
Anyone that thinks that this is acceptable, well, you must be completely ignorant.

I would also like to say that I've never used the term "willy nilly" in my life.



If true, and I really have no reason to doubt you b/c I know an owner who has horses with you and you guys are great, this is absolutely awful. And you are correct - this is not anywhere close to what a quarantine should be. What gives, Hawthorne and State Dept Of Ag???

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« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2012, 01:26:38 PM »

I am wondering why you are not responding to Equiforce & his postings?

I dont have time to go through all of my posts but dug this one up...No need to apologize

I have been responding to equiforce's posts, if I see them going back and forth from one thread to the other, and I'm sure if I'm not answering to equiforce's posts to his or her satisfaction, that he or she can take me to task.

What are you now, some sort of forum policeman, dictating who needs to respond to what, when, and how?
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« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2012, 01:27:26 PM »

Racing and training today like normal.  The show goes on and the horses suffer. If humans were dropping dead would the show still go on? This is just plain wrong and insane.
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« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2012, 01:30:23 PM »

Anyone here have an "in" with local media that can bring an "outside-the-industry" (i.e. other than DRF or biased Hawthorne/ITHA notes) spotlight into this...Huh??
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« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2012, 01:32:08 PM »

I have been responding to equiforce's posts, if I see them going back and forth from one thread to the other, and I'm sure if I'm not answering to equiforce's posts to his or her satisfaction, that he or she can take me to task.

What are you now, some sort of forum policeman, dictating who needs to respond to what, when, and how?

I am sorry Terry,

I meant to quote my friend Horse Voice

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