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Author Topic: Why is nothing being done at Hawthorne  (Read 32222 times)
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #300 on: November 19, 2012, 04:05:15 PM »

A large amount of the help on the backside has no idea about basic hygiene not limited to but including flushing toilet paper down the toilet and bathing on a daily basis.  All of a sudden we expect these same people to use hand sanitizer and be extremely clean..  Not going to happen..

I saw at the ITHA website that all of sudden now there's some "basic training" for grooms and hotwalkers, as well as free latex gloves.

http://itharacing.com/weeklywhinnies/detail/detaillist/MjUx
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« Reply #301 on: November 19, 2012, 04:26:56 PM »

I saw at the ITHA website that all of sudden now there's some "basic training" for grooms and hotwalkers, as well as free latex gloves.

http://itharacing.com/weeklywhinnies/detail/detaillist/MjUx

Much as the govt under estimated Katrina, the ITHA under estimated this crisis. They are in catch up mode now. 
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brivolta
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« Reply #302 on: November 19, 2012, 04:29:16 PM »

Much as the govt under estimated Katrina, the ITHA under estimated this crisis. They are in catch up mode now. 

Hopefully Kanye West will spare us his analysis this time around.
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dano-themano
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« Reply #303 on: November 19, 2012, 04:51:00 PM »

A large amount of the help on the backside has no idea about basic hygiene not limited to but including flushing toilet paper down the toilet and bathing on a daily basis.  All of a sudden we expect these same people to use hand sanitizer and be extremely clean..  Not going to happen..


lol Cory.  They have explained how the toilets in Mexico cannot handle tp to me, over and over.  And yet I still don't understand the piles of Sh++ paper stacked on the bathroom floor.  Talk about hygiene....
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Equiforce
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« Reply #304 on: November 19, 2012, 04:59:59 PM »

@ horse voice..tht was a big dog and pony show.  The ITHA came into the meeting that we were in , during the final 5 minutes and asked what they should buy.  That was SATURDAY.   How have they spent thousands. 
If this was about me...I wouldn't give a rats as* and would have run my 9-2 shot the other day...who appears to be perfectly healthy, but instead, I scratched.  You can TRY to make this appear that it is about me, but fortunately, the horsemen know me better than that...
It looks like alot of people block you, why do you think that is ?     
Please, do us all a favor and go drink the kool-aid.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #305 on: November 19, 2012, 05:06:54 PM »

Oh, and Jim Miller expressed the importance of washing hands and clothing, very, very important, I think everyone would agree....
HOWEVER, what he failed to mention was that the laundry facilities an the backside are not currently open and operational......

Thy say all of the right things so that people get the impression that everything possible is being done...
But until 2 days ago, there was NOT security at K-2, and the grooms were not getting educated.  And until yesterday, I did not even know that anti-viral sprays and gloves, etc. were being made available.  HELL, I've been to SAMs club constantly supplying my own barn.  And what good does it do if the trainers in my barn aren't doing the same ?

I'm thankful that this is being addressed now, and I agree ith Terry that they are trying to play catch up...but it has taken people really voicing out to get this even in motion.

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« Reply #306 on: November 19, 2012, 05:36:43 PM »


 Listened to entire call.  Would rate it 1/3 informative  2/3  crisis control P.R. 

 Format was such that follow up  "when "  questions could not be pressed upon the speaker.  At one point "as of yesterday" did slip out.

 Pretty obvious all  concerned are feeling the "heat" generated by Equiforce and like thinkers and  that is only reason they acted and communicated.

 Overall the speakers , whether right or wrong, were understandable and had good delivery.  But clearly they had a mutually defensive mindset.

 When ?   Why not sooner ?   What if ?   How ? .........  seemed to be questions that should have been asked in follow up questions .   However , the moderator sounded home team all the way , like on an infomercial. 

 Nevertheless ,  it is good that they  did it and finally tried to communicate. It is good that some things are happening.  It is good that the principals involved felt the heat.

 Time will tell.

 

 

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brivolta
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« Reply #307 on: November 19, 2012, 05:39:57 PM »

I noticed they only mentioned one horse being tested in barn 9. However I was told this morning that mine would be tested today as well.
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« Reply #308 on: November 19, 2012, 07:09:38 PM »




       Agree with Cory on teaching the grooms sanitization skills. It would be like trying to teach Voice of no horse some manners. The issue also still exists of various grooms traveling thru barns at nite instead of walking around the barns. Im so glad to hear that Steves filly is doing better and that yours is on the way to recovery brivolta. Steve has a very compassionate side when it comes to his horses.
    I STILL believe a full quarantine with all phases of racing and training halted for now is the only way to combat this virus at this point of time. Had managements procedures been carried thru more thoroughly and with more caution this would have never gotten this far IMHO
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pony
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« Reply #309 on: November 19, 2012, 07:15:46 PM »

A large amount of the help on the backside has no idea about basic hygiene not limited to but including flushing toilet paper down the toilet and bathing on a daily basis.  All of a sudden we expect these same people to use hand sanitizer and be extremely clean..  Not going to happen..

Cory your so on to it .It's not funny.I'm glad to see that you wrote the truth!I would also like to know why only 10% of the concern trophy Horsemen tested there horses ? I think all should be tested before entering. Not just 10% trophy
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jrstark
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« Reply #310 on: November 19, 2012, 07:22:42 PM »

Cory your so on to it .It's not funny.I'm glad to see that you wrote the truth!I would also like to know why only 10% of the concern trophy Horsemen tested there horses ? I think all should be tested before entering. Not just 10% trophy

They answered this. It is not recommended to test asymptomatic horses because of a high false positive rate.
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pony
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« Reply #311 on: November 19, 2012, 07:52:47 PM »

They answered this. It is not recommended to test asymptomatic horses because of a high false positive rate.

I do understand that. But how do know the numbers on this if you don't have a final count no matter if True or False positives that is what I'm saying. I was told even the false ones could be a carriers. Herpes is a very highly contagious disease .I think true or false. I think you need a final count before you state numbers.That is all I'm saying.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #312 on: November 19, 2012, 08:02:29 PM »

Red, you hit the nail on the head.

And does anyone wanna make a guess as to how many days until the laundry facilities are up and working again, now that they've stated the importance of washing clothes (and hands , of course) and it being addressed on here Huh
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onthebit1
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« Reply #313 on: November 19, 2012, 08:05:47 PM »

They have no way to determine what percentage of horses could potentially be positive, because there are trainers out there who have had horses spike a fever and who have chosen NOT to even have their horses tested for fear of having to move them to the QT barn. This is know firsthand.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #314 on: November 19, 2012, 08:14:56 PM »

This is 100% true.  We had to practically beg the state vet to test our 3 horses after our fatality.  He just kept saying, talk to your vet, we can't test everyone, etc. 
these were horses spiking temps.  All 3 were ultimately tested, all 3 positive.

In all honesty though, I was told early on that our vets were required to report ANY AND ALL temps to the state vet.  That's why we were keeping logs of temps, day and night.  No one ever followed through with the temperature logs. 

I also completely agree that it isn't practical to test every horse.  But they really do not want to test too many horses because it increases the numbers they are so carefully keeping down.


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« Reply #315 on: November 19, 2012, 08:21:46 PM »

They have no way to determine what percentage of horses could potentially be positive, because there are trainers out there who have had horses spike a fever and who have chosen NOT to even have their horses tested for fear of having to move them to the QT barn. This is know firsthand.

Did you report it?
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Equiforce
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« Reply #316 on: November 19, 2012, 08:24:56 PM »

Absolutely
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brivolta
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« Reply #317 on: November 19, 2012, 08:25:12 PM »

They have no way to determine what percentage of horses could potentially be positive, because there are trainers out there who have had horses spike a fever and who have chosen NOT to even have their horses tested for fear of having to move them to the QT barn. This is know firsthand.

By no means am I saying that Hawthorne hs done everything properly. But short of Jim Miller taking the temperature of all 1800 horses, how would Hawthorne be responsible for this? Unless you're suggesting that they have knowledge of trainers not reporting things.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #318 on: November 19, 2012, 08:27:38 PM »



       Agree with Cory on teaching the grooms sanitization skills. It would be like trying to teach Voice of no horse some manners. The issue also still exists of various grooms traveling thru barns at nite instead of walking around the barns. Im so glad to hear that Steves filly is doing better and that yours is on the way to recovery brivolta. Steve has a very compassionate side when it comes to his horses.
    I STILL believe a full quarantine with all phases of racing and training halted for now is the only way to combat this virus at this point of time. Had managements procedures been carried thru more thoroughly and with more caution this would have never gotten this far IMHO

If the grooms are hopelessly unsanitary, and travel through barns instead of around at night, what difference does it make if there is racing or they're all just standing around in their stalls? The grooms will still be transmitting 100% as much infection (if any) either way, correct?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #319 on: November 19, 2012, 08:29:23 PM »

They have no way to determine what percentage of horses could potentially be positive, because there are trainers out there who have had horses spike a fever and who have chosen NOT to even have their horses tested for fear of having to move them to the QT barn. This is know firsthand.

So what you're saying here is part of the problem is horsemen?
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Equiforce
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« Reply #320 on: November 19, 2012, 08:32:16 PM »

They do have knowledge of the crazy numbers of horses carrying temps...why else would the ITHA be putting out log sheets, why else would the state vets office be putting out temp log sheets....you can write it down, report it all day long and the response is the same...we can't test all of the horses.  
WE HAVE NEVER ASKED FOR THEM TO TEST ALL OF THE HORSES.  But when there is a legitimate reason to test 1-3 or 60, then test them...
If they were to test those high temp horses, their numbers would change DRASTICALLY.  And it's clear that the vets office is hanging their hats right now on their (inaccurate) numbers....
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onthebit1
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« Reply #321 on: November 19, 2012, 08:52:32 PM »

Did you report it?


Its not up to me to report it. Its up to the trainer and that trainers vet to do the right thing and report any and all instances when a horse exhibits a spike in temp. Unfortunately, a lot of vets and trainers do not care about the greater good of other horses and horsemen...they care only for themselves and their wallets.   
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onthebit1
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« Reply #322 on: November 19, 2012, 08:58:49 PM »

By no means am I saying that Hawthorne hs done everything properly. But short of Jim Miller taking the temperature of all 1800 horses, how would Hawthorne be responsible for this? Unless you're suggesting that they have knowledge of trainers not reporting things.

brivolta...one would have to assume that Hawthorne and the vets know that a lot of horses exhibiting temps are going unreported. There is no way for Hawthorne to control this, which is precisely why movement of all horses should have been shut down once the second barn (C) came up with so many positives. Not all horsemen can be trusted to do the right thing...heck probably MOST of the horsemen back there are not doing the right thing.     
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« Reply #323 on: November 19, 2012, 09:01:34 PM »

On the bit,
When this all started, and we were given the logs to keep temperatures if we had them of course.
Our vets would have come and treated the sick horses.
They would have reported the temperatures to the state as instructed.
We reported our temps and I'm SURE other trainers did as well.

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onthebit1
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« Reply #324 on: November 19, 2012, 09:09:07 PM »

So what you're saying here is part of the problem is horsemen?

Yes.They are a large part of the problem. Many are not following protocol and I do not believe that a single trainer, other than Dale Bennett, has voluntarily stopped sending their horses to train with the healthy horse populace during an outbreak within their barn/shedrow. Heck, Reavis had one neurological the same day as Ginger and Spice and he sent everything to the track the next morning. Oh yes....this a huge part of the problem. 
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