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Author Topic: Why is nothing being done at Hawthorne  (Read 31158 times)
brivolta
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« Reply #275 on: November 19, 2012, 09:56:05 AM »

My filly's fever is back. Ugh. 102.4.

He said she's acting normal but the fever is back, which is scaring me a little.
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Matchtown
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« Reply #276 on: November 19, 2012, 10:16:15 AM »

Has the vet drawn blood on her yet to test her??
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brivolta
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« Reply #277 on: November 19, 2012, 10:19:01 AM »

Has the vet drawn blood on her yet to test her??

That's being done today.
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dano-themano
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« Reply #278 on: November 19, 2012, 10:33:55 AM »

I believe they will suspend the meet today.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #279 on: November 19, 2012, 10:57:54 AM »

I believe they will suspend the meet today.

Explain how that would solve the problem, please.

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Equiforce
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« Reply #280 on: November 19, 2012, 11:04:36 AM »

Brivolta,
I know how scary this is for you, but try not to worry tooo much.  It does seem like they are getting better and then they will re-spike the temp.  It is more likely than not, her immune system, fighting hard to shed the virus.  Not to scare you even more, but if she is up and down with fever, she has it.  But NOT the neurological part of it.  Look at it like this....once he fights off his thing...IT CAN'T COME BACK.  Keep your head up.  I'm sure she will be fine.  Oh, btw, the 3 we tested that are in quarantine are doing great. No more temps, they seem to have gotten past the worse.  So, stay positive !!!!
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Equiforce
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« Reply #281 on: November 19, 2012, 11:11:21 AM »

Horse voice,
Rather than rely on OUR opinion, the people experiencing this epidemic first hand, I suggest you google CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL.  That site will explain how the only way to contain a contagious situation is to "STOP MOVEMENT" immediately and completely " SHUT DOWN " where the virus is, and has been.  (Which would equate to our individual barns).  It also states that PUBLIC GATHERINGS need to be halted immediately.  It goes on to say that these actions could cause "loss of income".....but that it still needs to be done. 
I hope I have been helpful.  But again, please read from our NATIONAL guideline on viral contamination directly from the CDC.
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brivolta
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« Reply #282 on: November 19, 2012, 11:18:51 AM »

Brivolta,
I know how scary this is for you, but try not to worry tooo much.  It does seem like they are getting better and then they will re-spike the temp.  It is more likely than not, her immune system, fighting hard to shed the virus.  Not to scare you even more, but if she is up and down with fever, she has it.  But NOT the neurological part of it.  Look at it like this....once he fights off his thing...IT CAN'T COME BACK.  Keep your head up.  I'm sure she will be fine.  Oh, btw, the 3 we tested that are in quarantine are doing great. No more temps, they seem to have gotten past the worse.  So, stay positive !!!!


Thank you for the reassuring thoughts. I know the odds of worst case scenario happening are fairly slim, but sometimes it's hard to remember that Smiley I know she's in good hands with Steve and hopefully will get past this soon.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #283 on: November 19, 2012, 11:22:57 AM »

Rather than rely on OUR opinion, the people experiencing this epidemic first hand, I suggest you google CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL.  That site will explain how the only way to contain a contagious situation is to "STOP MOVEMENT" immediately and completely " SHUT DOWN " where the virus is, and has been.

I read the CDC brief.

I'm having a hard time applying that information to a backstretch environment, where, at a minimum, horses need to be removed from stalls for mucking, horses need to be walked every day, feed / hay trucks and other people and supplies need to come in and move around...

The whole STOP MOVEMENT thing is a nice suggestion...but is it realistic for a backstretch with how many horses? Over 1000?

This virus is going to run its course through the WHOLE population at Hawthorne, eventually. The idea that it can be "stopped" by having everyone freeze in their tracks (and for how long? 60 days? 90?) is complete folly.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #284 on: November 19, 2012, 11:24:28 AM »

She really is.  I met Steve briefly after the "meeting" a few days ago and his concern and caring are written right there on his face.  I'm glad you have one of the good guys !
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Equiforce
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« Reply #285 on: November 19, 2012, 11:39:11 AM »

I'm pretty sure that I've cleaned a stall or two around a horse while he is in his stall.  Do you think that horses recovering from injuries or surgeries just don't get their stalls cleaned ? 
I'm sure you are having difficulty in wrapping your brain around situation.
Feed can be delivered to the door, and brought in by the employees in the barn.
Over 1000. ?  1800...I would say so.
Incidentally, that was the procedure or the initial outbreak in barn A, which everyone agrees was necessary....and effective....it is only when they abandoned the system that was effective and started "moving" horses around that ths went all over the backside.  It WAS contained. 
60 or 90 days ?  Where are you getting these numbers ? 
Do you know how many strains of this virus there are ?  Or the diff. Between the neurological strain and the others ?  Do you know the warning signs ?  Have you seen FIRST hand the start through end of contamination. 
I can test a horse today and test pos. and come back in 21 days and they could have completely shed the virus and test neg. 
it's obvious that you don't want racing halted.  That's fine and you are entitled to your opinion.  Please bring valid points to the table, because the CDC disagrees with you and I'm pretty sure we can clean a few stalls around the horses for a little while.

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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #286 on: November 19, 2012, 11:51:12 AM »

Horse voice,
Rather than rely on OUR opinion, the people experiencing this epidemic first hand, I suggest you google CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL.

There appear to be differing opinions on that subject. The guidelines at AAEP certainly seem to make allowance for the continuance of activity for unaffected animals at a facility that's experienced an outbreak, and would appear to be guiding the approach that's been taken at Haw. See:

http://www.aaep.org/images/files/EquineHerpesvirusGuidelines051711.pdf

and

http://www.aaep.org/pdfs/control_guidelines/Biosecurity_instructions%201.pdf

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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #287 on: November 19, 2012, 11:54:43 AM »

Incidentally, that was the procedure or the initial outbreak in barn A, which everyone agrees was necessary....and effective....it is only when they abandoned the system that was effective and started "moving" horses around that ths went all over the backside.  It WAS contained.  

Most of what I've read on this so far says you remove the affected horses from the others. How do you accomplish that without moving at least some horses?

And incidentally, you're pretty much admitting there that it wasn't the continuance of racing and training that was the problem.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 12:07:17 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
HorseVoice*
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« Reply #288 on: November 19, 2012, 12:38:11 PM »

And incidentally, you're pretty much admitting there that it wasn't the continuance of racing and training that was the problem.

Bingo.

Stop the current meet, or continue it. Doesn't matter.

Viruses move and multiply according to their own rules, not those of "backstretch experts" who think it was almost contained a few weeks ago (gimme a break), nor the CDC, nor any other geniuses out there with an opinion.

The idea that there is something humans can do to completely stop this virus is silly; as I said before, it will run its course, as all viruses do. When it's over, someone or several people will say, "Aha -- it's because we did THIS" (or didn't do THAT)...and maybe they will be right. Or not.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #289 on: November 19, 2012, 12:46:39 PM »

Well, there's nothing wrong with taking prudent steps to contain the spread. You hopefully keep your kid out of school when he's sick so he doesn't pass the illness along to others, and likewise the sick horses are supposed to be removed away from the others, into isolation.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
HorseVoice*
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« Reply #290 on: November 19, 2012, 12:52:57 PM »

Well, there's nothing wrong with taking prudent steps to contain the spread. You hopefully keep your kid out of school when he's sick so he doesn't pass the illness along to others, and likewise the sick horses are supposed to be removed away from the others, into isolation.

Agree completely, BUT:

* 1800 horses

* how many humans that truly need to be there everyday?

* how many more that must occasionally come in for whatever reason?

* how many truly separate places on that crowded backstretch that can be maintained as isolation?

Winner: virus.

Sorry if no one likes it, but I decline to deal in euphemism.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #291 on: November 19, 2012, 12:58:38 PM »

Not by a longshot Terry.  Horses going to the paddock, being handled by jockeys, valets, pony people, gate crew.   The claiming going on and musical horses and up until yesterday anyone coming and going through quarantine barn...

How does this seem like a logical containment

The claiming ALONE aided in the spread of this virus.

And if containment isn't the answer....were they completely wrong in how they handled the first outbreak ? 

It can't be both ways...
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #292 on: November 19, 2012, 01:09:55 PM »

Not by a longshot Terry.  Horses going to the paddock, being handled by jockeys, valets, pony people, gate crew.   The claiming going on and musical horses and up until yesterday anyone coming and going through quarantine barn...

All that was going on during the initial containment, too, was it not?

Quote
The claiming ALONE aided in the spread of this virus.

Is there some proof of that claim? Some specific horses you can name that carried it to some other barn? Horses from "sick" barns should not be racing, I'll agree with that.

Quote
And if containment isn't the answer....were they completely wrong in how they handled the first outbreak ?  

Did they have a separate isolation barn available when the first cases showed up in barn A?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 01:11:31 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
onthebit1
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« Reply #293 on: November 19, 2012, 01:29:08 PM »

Equiforce...I commend you for your leadership in this issue and more so for clearly putting the welfare of ALL horses on the Hawthorne backstretch above all else, including your personal horses and personal pocketbook.

Will Dale be taking part in the conference call today? I certainly hope so because clearly someone who actually cares for the greater good of the horses needs to be on hand to speak up.

I also hope that someone on the call will ask WHY on earth barns (other than the originally quarantined barn A) that have had recent positive horses have NOT been immediately quarantined??? In my opinion, not quarantining barns as new positives develop, is completely negligent and is vastly responsible for the spread of this virus. Had barn C been shut down when the Catalano horse tested positive (several weeks ago now), the virus may have  very well been contained then and perhaps Ginger and Spice (and others) would still be alive today.         
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Ed
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« Reply #294 on: November 19, 2012, 01:36:29 PM »

Is ther anything that HorseVoice doesn't know? I will get up to HAW to meet this guy before the meet ends.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #295 on: November 19, 2012, 02:02:03 PM »

Too funny Ed.  It appears there isn't.....
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #296 on: November 19, 2012, 02:03:16 PM »

Is ther anything that HorseVoice doesn't know? I will get up to HAW to meet this guy before the meet ends.

I was actually paying attention in school when we were being taught about viruses, bacteria, parasites, and other living microorganisms. Even now, there is a great degree on uncertainty on exactly how some of these pesty things move around, grow, mutate, etc.

I'm really sorry that some horses are getting sick; I mean that with all my heart.

And I don't really care whether they stop the current Haw meeting or not.

But some of the ideas being proposed here by a few self-proclaimed "experts" (because they own a shovel and a pair of shitkickers) are so ridiculous that they don't deserve a response.

Don't make it about me, Ed.
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Equiforce
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« Reply #297 on: November 19, 2012, 02:09:32 PM »

We aren't self proclaimed experts.  But your comments like that clearly show your own insecurities. 
We have a much better concept of this virus and have spoken to Rood and Riddle, Purdue, our vets, outside vets and have done our own research.  We know more because we have chosen to educate ourselves because our horses are infected.
I'm glad you were paying attention during your science and biology classes in school.  Medical school was that ? 
Perhaps they should have offered a class in common sense...the world, or at least backside would be a better place if they had.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #298 on: November 19, 2012, 03:49:56 PM »

We aren't self proclaimed experts. 

And then you go on to tell me why you think you know more than I do, without any stated credentials of your own (like M.D. or DVM) -- the definition of a self-proclaimed expert, to a T. (You "talked to people"? My, aren't you the learned one?)

Meanwhile, the conference call reveals that the REAL EXPERTS believe all of the horses on the Hawthorne backside have been at least *exposed* to the virus...which (again) those of us who were paying attention in school (medical or otherwise) could have predicted.
 
That won't stop you from attempting to lord your knowledge over the rest of us, however; only trainer's wives can possibly be up on the latest and greatest in the care of horses.  Roll Eyes

Have at it, lady; your "15 minutes" are almost up.
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Cory Patton
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« Reply #299 on: November 19, 2012, 03:51:38 PM »

A large amount of the help on the backside has no idea about basic hygiene not limited to but including flushing toilet paper down the toilet and bathing on a daily basis.  All of a sudden we expect these same people to use hand sanitizer and be extremely clean..  Not going to happen..
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