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Author Topic: Why is nothing being done at Hawthorne  (Read 33404 times)
sporthorse
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« Reply #1100 on: December 06, 2012, 03:25:49 PM »



We've got the statement of Cory Patton that there were no positives in that barn before they moved out, only after the other horses moved in, and so far he's been 100% accurate in all he's carefully and responsibly reported, unlike your own long-established and well-documented spotty record for accuracy. So on balance, his story is more believable.

                  Hes been 100% accurate as he knows it. And Im not judging his credibility Im sure hes a great fella. I dont suppose tho that there could have been a horse in Barn 8 who was infected but it was NOT disclosed to him because it was not in HIS stable. Its pretty obvious that one of the most common threads among this virus is that this virus does not present itself in every horse the same way.



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You really need to cultivate more accurate rumor sources.
And you really need to refine your understanding of accurate sources

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Sorry, but the horsemen did. The track and State put in place exactly the same measures as Beulah and Turfway, but somehow the horsemen or their help managed to spread it to other barns nonetheless.

       Another statemnet full of holes. Your assuming that ALL the horsemen at Beulah and Turfway followed protocol to the letter. You are also assuming that due to the lapse in protocol by the horsemen at Hawthorne the virus spread. Doesnt add up sorry....

      Altho the protocol may have been the same as the other tracks the actual execution and steadfastness of the protocol was not maintained by the track or the state vets. You have proof that the protocols established by the state vet for contaminated barns have been all over the place with this situation and yet you still want to argue what is obvious.... doh
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sporthorse
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« Reply #1101 on: December 06, 2012, 03:31:42 PM »

Perhaps it needs to be said more S L O W L Y..... Strict adherence to Bio-security measures prevented the virus from spreading across the backside of these other facilities.....

Due to quick action and bio‐security measures, the virus was contained to one barn and no other horses 
were harmed. This is the first outbreak in Ohio since 2003, when scientists from the department worked 
quickly to isolate and characterize the equine herpes virus strain that caused an equine disease outbreak in 
Hancock County. 
 
“The professional work of staff at Beulah Park was critical in limiting exposure to EHV‐1,” said State 
Veterinarian Tony Forshey.  “Thanks to their cooperation and thorough work in following essential bio‐
security measures we were able to quickly resolve this quarantine situation.” 

If you can't understand this I can't help you.

          Its of no use.....Terry has his interpretation of protocol and it doesnt include any of the responsibility landing on Hawthorne or the state vet... head shake
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #1102 on: December 06, 2012, 03:48:24 PM »

And you really need to refine your understanding of accurate sources

I know what those are ... ones whose information stands up under scrutiny and comparison to other independent sources, and their information proves true. That's unlike those responsible for several of the bad rumors you have passed along to the forum.

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Altho the protocol may have been the same as the other tracks the actual execution and steadfastness of the protocol was not maintained by the track or the state vets.

Could you detail exactly what was done at the other tracks, versus not done at Hawthorne? And please, document your sources more specifically than your standard "somebody told me". Were you there personally to witness it?

As far as I am concerned, there are only two people who have posted to this forum who have any real credibility on what took place at these other tracks, and those are two who claim to have actually been there, Cory Patton (Turfway) and some other poster who claimed to have been at Beulah. I'd be interested to read some detailed compare and contrast from them. What did Turfway and Beulah (or their State vets) do, specifically, that was not done at Hawthorne? All the rest of this "I heard I heard, someone told me" hearsay from 2nd and 3rd parties is just that, nothing but hearsay.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #1103 on: December 06, 2012, 03:52:13 PM »

          Its of no use.....Terry has his interpretation of protocol and it doesnt include any of the responsibility landing on Hawthorne or the state vet... head shake

There could be some, but from what's been reported here by Equiforce and others, it sure sounds a lot more like horsemen and their help simply ignoring the published protocols. The horses don't belong to Hawthorne. The grooms and so on don't work for Hawthorne. The practices or non-practices in the barns aren't carried out by Hawthorne or its employees.
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« Reply #1104 on: December 06, 2012, 04:22:21 PM »

There could be some, but from what's been reported here by Equiforce and others, it sure sounds a lot more like horsemen and their help simply ignoring the published protocols. The horses don't belong to Hawthorne. The grooms and so on don't work for Hawthorne. The practices or non-practices in the barns aren't carried out by Hawthorne or its employees.

LMAO, this is exactly my point. Terry is clearly a pretty smart cookie, he continues this little game because he likes to be the permanent "counterpoint" in any discussion. Several things have been very clearly established in this on going drama. Proof of successful containment of this virus has been demonstrated by other tracks through professional administration of protocols in handling an outbreak. The states and the tracks implemented and enforced strict bio-security measures and were able to contain this virus to a single barn in the two cases presented. These states didn't simply PUBLISH PROTOCOLS, they implemented and strictly enforced said protocols. They didn't leave it up to the horsemen to hopefully follow advice posted on a website. In this case, Hawthorne and the state clearly were lax in security resulting in the virus spreading across the backside. Something it DIDN'T do in the cases where the states and tracks took their responsibility seriously. Same environments, same backsides full of horsemen and grooms, what could be different? Maybe the State vets and the tracks taking THEIR responsibility in containing the virus seriously? 
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sporthorse
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« Reply #1105 on: December 06, 2012, 04:26:54 PM »

LMAO, this is exactly my point. Terry is clearly a pretty smart cookie, he continues this little game because he likes to be the permanent "counterpoint" in any discussion. Several things have been very clearly established in this on going drama. Proof of successful containment of this virus has been demonstrated by other tracks through professional administration of protocols in handling an outbreak. The states and the tracks implemented and enforced strict bio-security measures and were able to contain this virus to a single barn in the two cases presented. These states didn't simply PUBLISH PROTOCOLS, they implemented and strictly enforced said protocols. They didn't leave it up to the horsemen to hopefully follow advice posted on a website. In this case, Hawthorne and the state clearly were lax in security resulting in the virus spreading across the backside. Something it DIDN'T do in the cases where the states and tracks took their responsibility seriously. Same environments, same backsides full of horsemen and grooms, what could be different? Maybe the State vets and the tracks taking THEIR responsibility in containing the virus seriously? 
                 Exactly! Too bad Terry doesnt GET IT bang head
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #1106 on: December 06, 2012, 04:34:27 PM »

                Exactly! Too bad Terry doesnt GET IT bang head

There's been no "proof" of anything at all except that these other tracks were lucky enough not to have irresponsible horsemen spread the disease out of the initial quarantine barn. The only protocols that have been so far documented at these other tracks look exactly like what Hawthorne and the State of Illinois did.

Now then, if there's anyone here who actually has first hand "I was there" knowledge of what the other tracks did that Hawthorne and the State of Illinois didn't, that would be of interest. But until then, simply claiming that Hawthorne didn't take the same steps these others did is nothing but speculation.  
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« Reply #1107 on: December 06, 2012, 04:47:47 PM »

I know what those are ... ones whose information stands up under scrutiny and comparison to other independent sources, and their information proves true. That's unlike those responsible for several of the bad rumors you have passed along to the forum.

      SEVERAL bad rumors? LOL Now you want to embellish on my postings!!! Oh I GET IT!!! If you can post it enough times it must be true! Sorry pal but to those who actually KNOW me Im not one to run from barn to barn to get updates on the latest gossip. Usually Im the LAST to know all the rumors! The only reason I knew anything at all about anything on this subject is because I was up there for opening weekend and during the first outbreak. So my summation of the lapse in protocol is FIRSTHAND not rumor. Also my conversations were with reputable people not gossip mongers...

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Could you detail exactly what was done at the other tracks, versus not done at Hawthorne? And please, document your sources more specifically than your standard "somebody told me". Were you there personally to witness it?
       And can you discern from a standard conversation from mere gossip? Had you spoken to any of the vets after the first outbreak? Did you personally witness sanitization protocol being carried out in the paddock? the ponies? the starting gate? Were you there to witness that the exact same protocol has been executed by mentioned tracks? Be a smarmy as you wish I can ask for as much proof of your objectivity as you can ask for my documentation. And please document your sources.

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As far as I am concerned, there are only two people who have posted to this forum who have any real credibility on what took place at these other tracks, and those are two who claim to have actually been there, Cory Patton (Turfway) and some other poster who claimed to have been at Beulah. I'd be interested to read some detailed compare and contrast from them. What did Turfway and Beulah (or their State vets) do, specifically, that was not done at Hawthorne? All the rest of this "I heard I heard, someone told me" hearsay from 2nd and 3rd parties is just that, nothing but hearsay.
      Then you obviously have a problem with comprehension of English...Equiforce has had firsthand experience thru out this whole ordeal. There was no "I heard I heard!" I had firsthand experience in the first few weeks. Do you have proof that what we have observed is untrue? If so please provide documentation.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #1108 on: December 06, 2012, 04:53:19 PM »

     SEVERAL bad rumors? LOL Now you want to embellish on my postings!!!

Yes, you have brought several to the forum, and we've documented them previously.

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Oh I GET IT!!! If you can post it enough times it must be true!

Denying it enough times does not erase the facts.

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The only reason I knew anything at all about anything on this subject is because I was up there for opening weekend and during the first outbreak. So my summation of the lapse in protocol is FIRSTHAND not rumor.

What specific "lapse in protocol" was that? Details, please. The only thing you've charged so far is that they should have kept horses out as well as in (which other tracks didn't do), and that they should have stopped racing and training (which the other tracks also didn't do).

The actual question on the table is what did these other tracks do that Hawthorne did not. Specifically.

And furthermore, how did you even know what the protocols were on opening weekend, since the portion of the backside seemingly represented here has claimed ignorance of their very existence until we started discussing them after Equiforce's horse went down?
 
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Also my conversations were with reputable people not gossip mongers.

And yet the stories turned out to be nothing but gossip. Go figure. The proof is in the pudding.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 04:57:32 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

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sporthorse
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« Reply #1109 on: December 06, 2012, 06:51:18 PM »

Yes, you have brought several to the forum, and we've documented them previously.

   oh pleez do post all of the several documented false rumors I have posted on here

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Denying it enough times does not erase the facts.

             Are we speaking of your facts or the actual facts?

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And furthermore, how did you even know what the protocols were on opening weekend, since the portion of the backside seemingly represented here has claimed ignorance of their very existence until we started discussing them after Equiforce's horse went down?
 
And yet the stories turned out to be nothing but gossip. Go figure. The proof is in the pudding.

          Once again you twist my posts to make it seem as if Im spreading a rumor. I stated I was up there opening weekend and then again right after the first out break. I did not in any sentence say I witnessed sanitization protocol or lack thereof because at that time there was no out break. Upon the second visit I witnessed NO santization protocol being done in the paddock with the ponies or at the starting gate. Unless you consider a swipe with a white towel on the gates sanitization procedures. Call it what you will Terry the simple fact is you have NO firsthand experience to call upon to support your claims. And btw your "been to a thousand tracks seen it all" doesnt apply to this particular case. Im not a "pudding" person but thanks anyway  dunno Cool
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Equiforce
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« Reply #1110 on: December 06, 2012, 08:16:27 PM »

Sporthorse,
You have hit the nail on the head in so much of this.  I've talked to friends from Beulah And Turfway who have lived through this nightmare.  They didn't get through it quickly because of, LUCK.  They were guided, led, helped through the terrible situation by the very people that should have stepped up.  It just didn't happen here at Hawthorne.  It's Par for the course...

The only way to have your words twisted by anyone here is to continue to allow them to twist your words.  I've decided to refuse to acknowledge the kool-aid drinker horse shoe.

You and I, and a very large group of horsemen know what as been happening, you don't have to defend yourself to anyone.  Your support is so very appreciated.

Thoroughbred, you as well.

The mission here is to inform and protect fellow horsemen....not feed someone's need to argue. 

Thank you for your insight and understanding and your VOICE. 

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fuzzypants
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« Reply #1111 on: December 06, 2012, 09:18:02 PM »

Equiforce what treatment are you aware of that the positive horses are getting from your vet?
You can pm me if u want!
In curious?
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« Reply #1112 on: December 06, 2012, 09:41:28 PM »

The usual treatments are corticosteroids to reduce inflammation and antiviral medication to slow down replication.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #1113 on: December 06, 2012, 10:05:48 PM »

Did it cause any spread of the disease beyond the confines of the Hawthorne backside?

The problem (and it is a pretty serious problem) with letting horses into Hawthorne right now (and yes, horses are coming in), is that by doing so the population of animals that has not been exposed to the virus is constantly being enlarged. By now, its safe to assume that most horses stable at HAW during the entire outbreak have been exposed to EHV-1; once exposed, they're not going to get sick, which is how the virus "runs its course." But new arrivals -- especially 2yos with more susceptible immune systems -- haven't yet been exposed to the bug. The track runs the risk of prolonging a quarantine based on last-neurologically-symptomatic-horse by allowing new horses on the backstretch.
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« Reply #1114 on: December 06, 2012, 10:31:22 PM »

Exactly.  I believe that most of the horses ave been exposed as well.  I constantly try to re-assure Dale that as far as our original horses go, I feel like since it went through our shed, the horses won't get it again.  We actually just retrieved 2 of our 3 positives from a few weeks back out of K-2 and they are officially negative.  The third, is still positive. But, ultimately...now, they are safe.

Bringing new horses in, or "allowing"  them to come in, is not a quarantine. And could continue to spread this virus. 

Fuzzy,
Faster horses pretty much summed it up.  I was informed that lysine s useful, and all of my horses are currently on 1oz. Lysine, twice a day.  Google lysine/equine herpesvirus for more info.  It's really too much to go in to here.  But very informative.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #1115 on: December 06, 2012, 11:00:16 PM »

The problem (and it is a pretty serious problem) with letting horses into Hawthorne right now (and yes, horses are coming in), is that by doing so the population of animals that has not been exposed to the virus is constantly being enlarged. By now, its safe to assume that most horses stable at HAW during the entire outbreak have been exposed to EHV-1; once exposed, they're not going to get sick, which is how the virus "runs its course." But new arrivals -- especially 2yos with more susceptible immune systems -- haven't yet been exposed to the bug. The track runs the risk of prolonging a quarantine based on last-neurologically-symptomatic-horse by allowing new horses on the backstretch.

I do agree with that.
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« Reply #1116 on: December 06, 2012, 11:06:42 PM »

100% true!
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« Reply #1117 on: December 06, 2012, 11:13:15 PM »

I cannot believe that anybody that ships a horse in to this situation cares one bit about the horse's health or well-being.  It's a piece of meat at that point for the trainer/owner
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #1118 on: December 06, 2012, 11:15:35 PM »

  oh pleez do post all of the several documented false rumors I have posted on here

I already mentioned one today, that of claiming the Roussel barn moved of its own accord with no consideration of others, and you just weaseled your way out of that one by claiming "someone told me". Another you told was that there was contamination in that barn they left before they did move, and there's no evidence for that at all. In fact the timeline in Hawthorne communications and DRF stories tells the contrary. Your timeline as to when horses were no longer allowed per Hawthorne to leave does not square with the official record and you can provide no hard evidence of your position except "someone told me". And of course there's your past epic fail of the Arlington purse cut ... which of course, someone also "told you". Those are the ones I can recall right off hand.  

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Are we speaking of your facts or the actual facts?

Your own written record, in black and white.

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Once again you twist my posts to make it seem as if Im spreading a rumor. I stated I was up there opening weekend and then again right after the first out break. I did not in any sentence say I witnessed sanitization protocol or lack thereof because at that time there was no out break.

So you know absolutely nothing at all first hand about what protocols were in place, much less being ignored, as someone might get the impression from your claim, "Altho the protocol may have been the same as the other tracks the actual execution and steadfastness of the protocol was not maintained by the track or the state vets." Is that about correct? And your oft-repeated claim about being up there opening weekend has no bearing on anything at all pertaining to this outbreak?

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Upon the second visit I witnessed NO santization protocol being done in the paddock with the ponies or at the starting gate. Unless you consider a swipe with a white towel on the gates sanitization procedures. Call it what you will Terry the simple fact is you have NO firsthand experience to call upon to support your claims.

By your own admission above, neither do you. But YOU are the one making claims based on what was done and not done.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 11:17:53 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #1119 on: December 06, 2012, 11:16:31 PM »

Agreed Turf Monster.  I was SHOCKED when I heard Cat had shipped a filly in from GP for stake, ( and fin 5th to boot) I've always respected him as a trainer.

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« Reply #1120 on: December 06, 2012, 11:18:53 PM »

Sporthorse,
Some people think that because it wasn't put on Hawthornes website, that it didn't happen....orrrr, they use that as a shield of sorts...but we know the truth
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #1121 on: December 06, 2012, 11:20:15 PM »

The mission here is to inform and protect fellow horsemen....not feed someone's need to argue. 

Do you think spreading phony rumors helps your fellow horsemen? I'd say quite the opposite, it just makes things seem worse than they really are.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #1122 on: December 06, 2012, 11:23:12 PM »

Sporthorse,
Some people think that because it wasn't put on Hawthornes website, that it didn't happen....orrrr, they use that as a shield of sorts...but we know the truth

One can't help but notice every time some specific details about or examples of these generic "truths" have been requested, there's only dead silence forthcoming.

What specific protocols were put in place at Turfway and Beulah that were not put in place at Hawthorne? And sources, please.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 11:24:46 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #1123 on: December 06, 2012, 11:38:36 PM »

Agreed Turf Monster.  I was SHOCKED when I heard Cat had shipped a filly in from GP for stake, ( and fin 5th to boot) I've always respected him as a trainer.



As foolish as it is/was for trainers or owners to ship horses in, it is lunacy for Hawthorne to allow them in. They not only put a new horse at risk of exposure, but run the risk of starting the 28 day clock all over again for all of us.  How can anyone who is looking to control this outbreak allow this to happen.  Again we have to ask, where is the ITHA?  Why aren't they in the office demanding that the backside be shut down from new shippers?

This is a joke.  There's no reason for this other than greed and ineptitude. Our horses should be on a farm in Florida now enjoying the fruits of a successful season and then going back in training in Feb for next season.  Instead they are in Stickney with no end in sight.
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« Reply #1124 on: December 06, 2012, 11:39:15 PM »

Sporthorse,
Some people think that because it wasn't put on Hawthornes website, that it didn't happen....orrrr, they use that as a shield of sorts...but we know the truth


   Your right! And anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see right thru what some people are up to.  head shake
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