Chicago Barn to Wire
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


December 21, 2014, 08:53:35 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 39 40 [41] 42 43 ... 53   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Why is nothing being done at Hawthorne  (Read 35692 times)
Babyruffy
Newbie
*
Posts: 25




Ignore
« Reply #1000 on: December 04, 2012, 03:50:06 AM »

I do not believe that they ever had a NO shipping in rule.  Only a no OUT rule.  I saw some new horses arrive just a few days back.
Report to moderator   Logged
Equiforce
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 580




Ignore
« Reply #1001 on: December 04, 2012, 01:07:29 PM »

Wow...now that's what I call..an effective quarantine
Report to moderator   Logged
beobob
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2157




Ignore
« Reply #1002 on: December 04, 2012, 02:32:02 PM »

Wow...now that's what I call..an effective quarantine

Careful E, unless you point it out some people can't discern sarcasm.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 13162

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #1003 on: December 04, 2012, 04:02:11 PM »

Wow...now that's what I call..an effective quarantine

Did it cause any spread of the disease beyond the confines of the Hawthorne backside?
Report to moderator   Logged

He's literate and funny.  I can see why he angers you so.
RacetrackRailbird
Full Member
***
Posts: 168




Ignore
« Reply #1004 on: December 04, 2012, 04:15:09 PM »

I think you might be just a little bit confused. But that's ok.

I'll clarify.  I was saying that I do not care if the security guards made 10.00 an hour, or 5.00 an hour but that if my help were not following protocol, and it was brought to my attention, by security, I would fire the person not following protocol...

It was not a knock on security.  It was meant to say that I respect their position.

When did I ever say....security guards are our judges ?






Here is what you said:


Well, If one or more of my guys was not following protocol that has been put in place, and a 5.00 security guard witnessed it and I was informed.  I would fire the guy.  I respect the fact that security is necessary and if we were called out on not following protocol during a contagious situation, I would have to appreciate that they are on the ball.



I think you might be just a little bit confused.

Clearly you are the confused individual among us.


A  "5.00" security guard??  Was that a reference to how many stars he earned in battle somewhere?   Or perhaps his/her rating on a scale of 1 to 5 (with 5 being best, of course)?

So first you denigrate an entire class of individuals, and then you make it clear that you would let someone's job hang in the balance based entirely on the observation made by presence of such a person, no matter whether the "5.00 security guard" said anything about it or not.

Perhaps you simply do not understand the meaning of the word "judge".


I am not confused at all when observing that persons like yourself are and continue to be the reason why nobody cares about Hawthorne.  Churchill Downs doesn't care about Hawthorne, Dick Duchossois doesn't care about Hawthorne... and that should be sinking into your head by now.  That it isn't, gives cause for major concern.

Let Hawthorne jump off the fiscal cliff or something... and be done with it.   Nobody caaaaaaaaaaaaaares...


Report to moderator   Logged
dano-themano
Full Member
***
Posts: 219




Ignore
« Reply #1005 on: December 04, 2012, 04:19:27 PM »

Dano, just saw you scratched Swift Melva for today. Just didn't want to make the trip or something wrong with her?

She went nuts in the trailer loading.  Just a few nicks and a touch sore.  She's going to track on Friday and we will see what we have.  It sucks to load on Sunday bc the equiciser and track are closed so there is no way to take the edge off her.
Report to moderator   Logged
brivolta
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 791




Ignore
« Reply #1006 on: December 04, 2012, 04:54:32 PM »

She went nuts in the trailer loading.  Just a few nicks and a touch sore.  She's going to track on Friday and we will see what we have.  It sucks to load on Sunday bc the equiciser and track are closed so there is no way to take the edge off her.

Oh wow! Sorry to hear that...hope she's okay.
Report to moderator   Logged
dano-themano
Full Member
***
Posts: 219




Ignore
« Reply #1007 on: December 04, 2012, 05:22:25 PM »

Oh wow! Sorry to hear that...hope she's okay.

Thanks.  A guy in my barn told me that she heard she was in at Beulah lol.
Report to moderator   Logged
brivolta
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 791




Ignore
« Reply #1008 on: December 04, 2012, 05:29:43 PM »

Thanks.  A guy in my barn told me that she heard she was in at Beulah lol.

Ha!
Report to moderator   Logged
Fast n Firm
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 87




Ignore
« Reply #1009 on: December 04, 2012, 05:33:53 PM »

I believe the long range ramifications of this fiasco will be felt well beyond this meet.  Illinois racing is in sad shape.  We have seen first hand how a crisis, like this, is handled by both the State and management.  Very scary!
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 13162

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #1010 on: December 04, 2012, 06:00:47 PM »

I believe the long range ramifications of this fiasco will be felt well beyond this meet.  Illinois racing is in sad shape.  We have seen first hand how a crisis, like this, is handled by both the State and management.  Very scary!

And the horsemen, let's not forget. The bug jumped out of Barn A even though no Barn A horses were racing. That's horsemen or their help tracking it around.
Report to moderator   Logged

He's literate and funny.  I can see why he angers you so.
brivolta
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 791




Ignore
« Reply #1011 on: December 04, 2012, 06:08:16 PM »

I believe the long range ramifications of this fiasco will be felt well beyond this meet.  Illinois racing is in sad shape.  We have seen first hand how a crisis, like this, is handled by both the State and management.  Very scary!

Honestly if they can get this under control by the spring meet I don't think there will be Lon term ramifications. People get caught up in the moment and say they will never come back, but at the end of the day they rely on the income from the Hawthorne meets and won't cut off their nose o spite their face. In my opinion of course.
Report to moderator   Logged
sporthorse
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1598




Ignore
« Reply #1012 on: December 04, 2012, 08:07:56 PM »



                 There is no point in expecting Hawthorne to step up and do the right thing. It should have been done at the onset of this virus. The horsemen except for a few have pretty well sealed their fate with their horses by not taking this virus seriously. I cant imagine anyone wanting to risk sending their horses to a place that has done nothing to insure the health and safety of the horses for the spring meet. It will be nothing short of a miracle if these horses get to leave by March. My hope in all this is that what was once deemed as standard protocol will be totally revamped. Several other tracks have dealt with this virus and had it totally contained and eradicated within a couple weeks.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 13162

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #1013 on: December 04, 2012, 08:54:45 PM »

                 There is no point in expecting Hawthorne to step up and do the right thing. It should have been done at the onset of this virus. The horsemen except for a few have pretty well sealed their fate with their horses by not taking this virus seriously. I cant imagine anyone wanting to risk sending their horses to a place that has done nothing to insure the health and safety of the horses for the spring meet. It will be nothing short of a miracle if these horses get to leave by March. My hope in all this is that what was once deemed as standard protocol will be totally revamped. Several other tracks have dealt with this virus and had it totally contained and eradicated within a couple weeks.

"The right thing" is entirely relative. For you sitting down at Fairmount without any actual skin in the game it's quite easy to say they should have shut down the meet or whatever. For other horsemen who are actually at the track and want or need to run, "the right thing" might be something entirely different. To meet their needs Hawthorne kept the meet running, and more importantly that's how the State handled it, too. So let's not pretend there was any one "right thing" to do.
Report to moderator   Logged

He's literate and funny.  I can see why he angers you so.
sporthorse
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1598




Ignore
« Reply #1014 on: December 04, 2012, 09:24:18 PM »

"The right thing" is entirely relative. For you sitting down at Fairmount without any actual skin in the game it's quite easy to say they should have shut down the meet or whatever. For other horsemen who are actually at the track and want or need to run, "the right thing" might be something entirely different. To meet their needs Hawthorne kept the meet running, and more importantly that's how the State handled it, too. So let's not pretend there was any one "right thing" to do.


         See Terry here is where you and I have to once again be at odds. I DO have skin in the game. I HAVENT been just sitting at FP. I had to leave 2 horses up there at the owners decision. (A decision they now regret). I HAD to run our horses at CD after serving a quarantine period because of this catastrophe. We now are giving the horses time off because there is no where else to run and Hawthorne is not in any way an option. So it has effected our bottom line. ANYONE with any knowledge at all knows what the "right thing" to do was. It was swept to the side and replaced with an inefficient protocol that was never taken seriously by the track or certain trainers. And YOU said it best "TO MEET THEIR NEEDS HAWTHORNE KEPT RUNNING". At the greed of a few the innocent have to suffer!
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 13162

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #1015 on: December 04, 2012, 09:49:56 PM »

See Terry here is where you and I have to once again be at odds. I DO have skin in the game. I HAVENT been just sitting at FP. I had to leave 2 horses up there at the owners decision. (A decision they now regret).

So you (or your owners) have "in retrospect" skin in the game?

Quote
I HAD to run our horses at CD after serving a quarantine period because of this catastrophe.

You HAD to run at Churchill? No you didn't. You could have kept your horses in your barn, the same as you are advocating for every other trainer at Hawthorne.

Quote
We now are giving the horses time off because there is no where else to run and Hawthorne is not in any way an option. So it has effected our bottom line.

But you're dong the right thing for your horses, right? Money be damned? But what's wrong with Beulah, or Retama, or Mountaineer, or Remington, or Evangeline?

Quote
ANYONE with any knowledge at all knows what the "right thing" to do was.

The State vet seems to be be basing her program on AAEP guidelines, so I guess you know better than both the AAEP and the State vet?

Quote
It was swept to the side and replaced with an inefficient protocol that was never taken seriously by the track or certain trainers.

I agree it wasn't taken seriously by some horsemen. That's how the bug jumped out of the original barn they closed off, Barn A. It wasn't because of racing, that's for sure.

Quote
And YOU said it best "TO MEET THEIR NEEDS HAWTHORNE KEPT RUNNING". At the greed of a few the innocent have to suffer!

I'm not convinced it's for the greed of any "few". The "few" is how many horsemen are actually speaking up negatively on this forum or in print, and "the few" are also how many have been speaking up positively. "The many" haven't said a thing, and they seem to keep filling the entry box every racing day. Lost of overflow fields for Thursday from what I can see, and lots of horses Friday, too.
Report to moderator   Logged

He's literate and funny.  I can see why he angers you so.
dano-themano
Full Member
***
Posts: 219




Ignore
« Reply #1016 on: December 04, 2012, 09:52:56 PM »

I have also been criticized on this forum for stating the impact it has had on us, financially.  There is a belief that if a owner/trainer does not have a horse in quarantine, he is not impacted.  We are and we know it.  

On top of all that, it is disconcerting to think that the virus will spread our way.  With a couple of large barns that stable both at FP and Haw...and with the knowledge that it spreads in many ways, we have anxiety about our spring meet and the potential impact on our horses.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 13162

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #1017 on: December 04, 2012, 10:19:06 PM »

I have also been criticized on this forum for stating the impact it has had on us, financially.  There is a belief that if a owner/trainer does not have a horse in quarantine, he is not impacted.  We are and we know it.  

I don't doubt that you're impacted. You've chosen not to take your horses to Hawthorne. That's your decision. Meanwhile, other trainers have obviously made the decision they're going to continue to run there, or even, as Catalano apparently did, take new horses there. That's their right, too. 
 
Quote
On top of all that, it is disconcerting to think that the virus will spread our way.  With a couple of large barns that stable both at FP and Haw...and with the knowledge that it spreads in many ways, we have anxiety about our spring meet and the potential impact on our horses.

It could. It could from any herpes outbreak.
Report to moderator   Logged

He's literate and funny.  I can see why he angers you so.
Equiforce
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 580




Ignore
« Reply #1018 on: December 04, 2012, 10:50:51 PM »

Meanwhile, this morning, we were notified that as of tomorrw, our barn will train after hours...
I believe tomorrow will be 5 days after the fatality in Reavis' shed.....

Didn't the first 4 days count ?

We can disagree about this forever, but Hawthorne did not handle this very well, and still is not...the state vet is here, there, everywhere but consistent....there really is no "guideline", and if there is, it must say, every day, change something you are doing...

I also, 100% agree with Terry that ALOT of the horsemen are also responsible for the lack of precautions they themselves were instituting in their own barns, just simply using common sense...
They weren't told they had to, which I personally, IN MY OPINION, feel that they should have been told to, and not given the option. 
However, sometimes you really SHOULDN'T have to be told to disinfect as much as possible when there is a deadly virus floating around.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 13162

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #1019 on: December 04, 2012, 11:34:20 PM »

I also, 100% agree with Terry that ALOT of the horsemen are also responsible for the lack of precautions they themselves were instituting in their own barns, just simply using common sense...
They weren't told they had to, which I personally, IN MY OPINION, feel that they should have been told to, and not given the option. 

And, I'm sure, they would observe those mandatory precautions just the same as they observe all the other things they're supposed to, like medication rules, or workout notification rules, or whatever ... haphazardly and at their convenience depending on their individual character, just like they obviously have (or have not) the  common sense guidelines that have been established for this outbreak. It's horsemen, and inconvenient rules. The relationship is ever the same.

Quote
However, sometimes you really SHOULDN'T have to be told to disinfect as much as possible when there is a deadly virus floating around.

And you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
Report to moderator   Logged

He's literate and funny.  I can see why he angers you so.
brivolta
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 791




Ignore
« Reply #1020 on: December 05, 2012, 09:02:48 AM »

I have also been criticized on this forum for stating the impact it has had on us, financially.  There is a belief that if a owner/trainer does not have a horse in quarantine, he is not impacted.  We are and we know it.  

On top of all that, it is disconcerting to think that the virus will spread our way.  With a couple of large barns that stable both at FP and Haw...and with the knowledge that it spreads in many ways, we have anxiety about our spring meet and the potential impact on our horses.

I agree with you that people (including yourself) have been impacted. You don't have to have horses here to be impacted. It seems there are two parts to the conversation. One is the conversation about the well being of the animals and the other is about the financial impact. I guess not everyone is ready to concede that.

As far as FP, I have gotten the sense that they won't let us back for a good 30 days after the lift of the quarantine. I can't back that up with anything concrete. Anecdotal at best.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 13162

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #1021 on: December 05, 2012, 09:16:10 AM »

I agree with you that people (including yourself) have been impacted. You don't have to have horses here to be impacted. It seems there are two parts to the conversation. One is the conversation about the well being of the animals and the other is about the financial impact. I guess not everyone is ready to concede that.

It's certainly starting to seem that a meaningful portion of the criticism of the decision to continue racing and allow other people to pay their help and earn their livelihood  is based on the unproved assertion that it's racing spreading the bug and prolonging the outbreak, thus impacting on the finances of those who choose/chose NOT to ship up there. In other words, those people on track should have been willing to take the hit, so as not to impact others on the outside,
Report to moderator   Logged

He's literate and funny.  I can see why he angers you so.
sporthorse
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1598




Ignore
« Reply #1022 on: December 05, 2012, 12:19:16 PM »



You HAD to run at Churchill? No you didn't. You could have kept your horses in your barn, the same as you are advocating for every other trainer at Hawthorne.

 
Quote
Yes Terry we ran at CD to try to do our job which is make the owners money. And no Im not advocating that everyone should stay in the barn. That would be similiar to shtting the barn doors after the horse is out. The time for that has long passed it should have been implemented at the FIRST outbreak. It was not taken seriously enough by the track the vet or some trainers.

But you're dong the right thing for your horses, right? Money be damned? But what's wrong with Beulah, or Retama, or Mountaineer, or Remington, or Evangeline?

Quote
We gave those considerations as well did the owners.....you have to weigh in the risk/reward factors. Also consider there are tracks who will not take your entry if you come from an Illinois track.

The State vet seems to be be basing her program on AAEP guidelines, so I guess you know better than both the AAEP and the State vet?

I agree it wasn't taken seriously by some horsemen. That's how the bug jumped out of the original barn they closed off, Barn A. It wasn't because of racing, that's for sure.

Quote
IMO she didnt thoroughly do her homework. Every vet Ive spoken with about this virus has said the exact same thing "They need to be under full quarantine and halt all activity until it is irradicated". These are vets who have dealt with this virus at other tracks.
                     
I'm not convinced it's for the greed of any "few". The "few" is how many horsemen are actually speaking up negatively on this forum or in print, and "the few" are also how many have been speaking up positively. "The many" haven't said a thing, and they seem to keep filling the entry box every racing day. Lost of overflow fields for Thursday from what I can see, and lots of horses Friday, too.
Quote
There are very many who are afraid to speak out for fear of backlash. There are those who simply dont care. There are those who care very much and speak out. Of course the box will be full! They have a captive audience and at the rate this virus is being dealt with does it REALLY matter if you are doing everything in your power to keep the virus contained but those around you are not?
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 13162

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #1023 on: December 05, 2012, 12:40:28 PM »

We gave those considerations as well did the owners.....you have to weigh in the risk/reward factors. Also consider there are tracks who will not take your entry if you come from an Illinois track.

There are tracks that won't even take horses from Fairmount? Which ones? I thought you had Oaklawn calling and begging for FP horses, for instance.

Quote
IMO she didnt thoroughly do her homework. Every vet Ive spoken with about this virus has said the exact same thing "They need to be under full quarantine and halt all activity until it is irradicated". These are vets who have dealt with this virus at other tracks.

That's certainly not the approach outlined by the AAEP, and not the one that was taken at Turfway, Beulah, or Balmoral. Racing continued there. In fact the procedures used at Beulah sound quite familiar. What are these other tracks that shut down completely, and when were their outbreaks?

http://www.drf.com/news/beulah-meet-begin-herpes-quarantine-place

Quote
There are very many who are afraid to speak out for fear of backlash. There are those who simply dont care. There are those who care very much and speak out. Of course the box will be full! They have a captive audience and at the rate this virus is being dealt with does it REALLY matter if you are doing everything in your power to keep the virus contained but those around you are not?

Since the virus is only weakly airborne, it seems to me anyone who TRULY cared would do every possible thing in their power, including keeping their horses totally immobile in their stalls and away from anyone else's. Don't even let your barn mate walk their horses past yours.

It also seems to me that if some big majority wanted to cease racing they'd be boycotting the entry box in droves, or down at the ITHA trailer calling for a horseman action. But they're not, are they. They're racing, for money. Money because they just plain want to keep racing, or money because they can't stand the idea that some other horsemen might pick up an easy check if they leave their own horses immobile in the stall.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 12:42:27 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

He's literate and funny.  I can see why he angers you so.
beobob
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2157




Ignore
« Reply #1024 on: December 05, 2012, 01:27:39 PM »

I think that that Terry has been on point when hammering through most of this thread that horsemen are their own worst enemies when it comes instances such as this.  A combination of cowboy mentality and short term thinking by horsemen might work in a thriving business enviornment or in good times, but with the industry business model falling apart or in a crisis situation such as this, cowboys and short term decision making will doom us.  

I was shocked when I became involved as an owner and started going to ITHA meetings how short term the thinking was.  The discussion was about more opportunities, more races, and slots. No mention of the long term viability of racing in Illinois, and perhaps making difficult decisions in the short term that would have long term benefits (which is essentially what Equiforce has been advocating from the beginning with the virus).

An example of our shortsightedness is the impact money.  Instead of looking at this windfall as a stopgap that could buy us time until slots or some other alternative revenue could be developed, the ITHA wanted it all over 3 calander years with 1 full year's worth doled out the last 2 months of the AP meet. How shortsighted is that?  Anyone with a brain knew that Quinn was going to fight slots at tracks.  Why wouldn't we work together with the track and come up with a structure that bought us time and that could be accelerated if and when the slots come through?  Anyone looking forward to MSW 20k races in 2015? That's the position we could be in.

I think we saw how inspired leadership (whether elected or not) can cause action with this thread.  We needed strong, forceful leadership from the beginning.  Procedures with consequences for failure to comply.  I'm sure that most involved at Hawthorne now would have chosen a month of pain over the open ended nightmare we're in that appears to have no end in sight.
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: 1 ... 39 40 [41] 42 43 ... 53   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.106 seconds with 16 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Breeders' Cup
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Breeders' Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy