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Author Topic: Hello IRB, Track Stewards And Conspiracy NonBelievers:Inside Info For You..  (Read 1378 times)
knowitall
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« on: November 14, 2012, 12:49:51 AM »

I can tell you this with 100% certainty of it's accuracy and integrity of the sources.

Trainers with Driver knowledge are going training miles and jogging 5-6 miles on race day right before shipping to the track to race!

This ensures that a key horse who is going to be a prohibited public favorite in the gimmicks tries hard but comes up short.

The driver has an excuse for losing and the trainer doesn't over exercise the horse before it's next start to "Bounce back" it's performance.

The conversation was about these chalks losing by breaking stride or being physically dead before the 3/4's pole.

It was assumed I knew what was going on but I can tell you right now, I didn't.

I started a thread on another forum 8 minutes before the race where I was told the 3/5 favorite was going to break.

I told everybody online at the time and I repeated what happened here at btw.

Turns out the reason Oosting broke at 3/5 was the trotter was worked out and jogged 6 miles before shipping to the track.

I told everybody Oosting knew what to do to get him to break and now I know the horse was exhausted and breaking him was easy to do.

This form of cheating is going to be impossible to police. And it may not work everytime if the driver is in the dark about the workout.

So if you are like me you will be giving a second look to bad race lines where a horse had zero stamina at any point in the race.

If you assume the horse to be lame or sick you might not bet the next start if the horse had no time off. I don't.

Now I have two anomalies to focus on: Chalks with severe stamina issues after great race lines from trainers known for cheating.

And chalks with stamina issues in their last race moving up in class for no reason from trainers with a history of cheating.

This may be no news to the CRACKHEADS living on the backstretch but it was news to me. And I bet it will be news to the blind IRB members.
 
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looking in
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2012, 08:24:31 AM »

Very Interesting!
Please explain?
Why do horses in heat races(The Little Brown Jug ETC) go as fast or faster the second heat as compared to the first heat?

In the days of Sportsmans Park most horses were warmed up two trips before racing. The last trip within 10 to 20 seconds of what you thought the race would go in.

As a general rule Stanley Dancer jogged his horses the morning of a night time race. The reason being to relax the horse into thinking it was a normal day.

IMHO
Few trainers today have the time, desire and help to be training a horse just before the horse is loaded on the truck.
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I am just an old "Hoss" trainer, that has been raced hard and put away wet. 
As my Friend from Maine(Ora Stratton) says "There are horse trainers, and then there are real "Hoss" trainers.
Old and Slow
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2012, 09:19:34 AM »

Very Interesting!
Please explain?
Why do horses in heat races(The Little Brown Jug ETC) go as fast or faster the second heat as compared to the first heat?

In the days of Sportsmans Park most horses were warmed up two trips before racing. The last trip within 10 to 20 seconds of what you thought the race would go in.

As a general rule Stanley Dancer jogged his horses the morning of a night time race. The reason being to relax the horse into thinking it was a normal day.

IMHO
Few trainers today have the time, desire and help to be training a horse just before the horse is loaded on the truck.
Your post is spot on as usual, looking in.

But, it's really not fair to confront Swoody with facts.  He doesn't know what they are.
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I know one thing for sure.  Indecision may or may not be my problem.
newjackcity
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2012, 09:25:53 AM »

You all disagree..Therefore you must be crackheads... laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
Sort of like being a grandstand goof the term coined by the Sultan of Summerlin.  laughing guy laughing guy
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2012, 09:43:55 AM »

It was assumed I knew what was going on but I can tell you right now, I didn't.

Assumed by whom? And all that stuff you wrote before ... never mind?

Quote
So if you are like me you will be giving a second look to bad race lines where a horse had zero stamina at any point in the race.

No one is like you. Anyone else who actually believed the things you write would not be betting horses.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
newjackcity
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2012, 09:46:52 AM »

Assumed by whom? And all that stuff you wrote before ... never mind?

No one is like you. Anyone else who actually believed the things you write would not be betting horses.
what you are missing HBT is that the inside info he receives helps him avoid falling into the traps set by these nefarious trainers and drivers...How you could miss this is beyond me. 
You sir also fall into the circle of crackheads.  laughing guy laughing guy
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2012, 09:50:17 AM »

what you are missing HBT is that the inside info he receives helps him avoid falling into the traps set by these nefarious trainers and drivers...How you could miss this is beyond me. 

No doubt accounting for his enviable wealth.

Quote
You sir also fall into the circle of crackheads.  laughing guy laughing guy

Falling into swoody's circle of crackheads ... what a dishonor ... but it's a chance one takes.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
knowitall
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2012, 10:15:37 AM »

Very Interesting!
Please explain?
Why do horses in heat races(The Little Brown Jug ETC) go as fast or faster the second heat as compared to the first heat?

In the days of Sportsmans Park most horses were warmed up two trips before racing. The last trip within 10 to 20 seconds of what you thought the race would go in.

As a general rule Stanley Dancer jogged his horses the morning of a night time race. The reason being to relax the horse into thinking it was a normal day.

IMHO
Few trainers today have the time, desire and help to be training a horse just before the horse is loaded on the truck.


So you are telling me if you trained a horse 6 miles right before taking him to the track to race the horse wouldn't be tired? screwy

This horse was not just jogged 6 miles as the clown posse appears to want to spin this.

I started watching and logging early warmup miles and times in 1972. Clocking the final quarter.

Today's horses do not get "warmed up" this way any more. Nor do they train 6 miles on race day before the races. head shake

Trainers scratch their horses in big multiheat races because they believe it hurts the horses and ruins them the rest of the racing season.

You can't have both way clowns. crossedfingers

You can't cry about multiheat racing claiming it hurts good horses then when convenient claim it doesn't hurt the horses. bang head

We are talking cheap broken down horses in Illinois not millionaire 3 year olds at the Little Brown Jug. screwy

Besides the obvious, Stanley Dancer raced horses in a straight line and went 2:00 minute miles with the good ones! doh

Are you aware of the fact that Amish horses get tired pulling a buggy and are changed to give them a rest? doh
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knowitall
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2012, 10:20:14 AM »

Assumed by whom? And all that stuff you wrote before ... never mind?

No one is like you. Anyone else who actually believed the things you write would not be betting horses.


You are a friggin idiot who jumped in over your empty head the last time.

But I will admit to not raising one question during the conversation.

If a horse is being given EPO doesn't that counter the effect of fatigue?
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kellytuc
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2012, 10:23:50 AM »

Stanley Dancer must have been the Oosting of the '50's.  Maybe he was the head of the DCS - Dancer Crime Syndicate. 
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Old and Slow
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2012, 10:35:25 AM »

Swoody, I don't even know how to begin, so help me out here.

In your world, what is a jog mile (timewise) and what is a training mile (again, timewise)?

I want to know if you know the difference before we go any further.

TIA

Edit:  Assume the track is a 1/2 mile limestone all-weather track in good shape
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 10:46:28 AM by Old and Slow » Report to moderator   Logged

I know one thing for sure.  Indecision may or may not be my problem.
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2012, 12:06:21 PM »

Right so your telling us a trainer is going to train a horse six miles at 2:10 to tire him so he breaks during the race and flushes money.  So the next time the horse races he gets odds.  What the f--k kind of trainer would do this risky his monthly rate and the horses health.  If owners caught onto that thinking the trainer also risking his career.  Dumbest thing I think I have heard on the site.  Six mile training session before a race whatever get back to the crack pipe.
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Old and Slow
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2012, 12:14:49 PM »

Right so your telling us a trainer is going to train a horse six miles at 2:10 to tire him so he breaks during the race and flushes money.  So the next time the horse races he gets odds.  What the f--k kind of trainer would do this risky his monthly rate and the horses health.  If owners caught onto that thinking the trainer also risking his career.  Dumbest thing I think I have heard on the site.  Six mile training session before a race whatever get back to the crack pipe.
Sharp post. 
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Pal B
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2012, 01:15:08 PM »

Right so your telling us a trainer is going to train a horse six miles at 2:10 to tire him so he breaks during the race and flushes money.  So the next time the horse races he gets odds.  What the f--k kind of trainer would do this risky his monthly rate and the horses health.  If owners caught onto that thinking the trainer also risking his career.  Dumbest thing I think I have heard on the site.  Six mile training session before a race whatever get back to the crack pipe.

Do you think a trainer would do this if he owned the horse, knowing he is sitting on a win at a particular class or condition, and can potentially make an extra two or three grand tax free wagering seven days later? Not as crazy as it sounds. Can't comment on the six mile thing, but know for a fact, people will go to any lengths where money is concerned. They don't seem concerned about the health of a horse when they give them EPO, so a six mile workout seems in play.   
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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2012, 01:24:52 PM »

Bullshit!!  Where do you come up with this stuff.  You need a reality check.  That never happens.  Dumbest post I have ever read. If you want to tank one you would never have to go to that much work to do it.  Why would anyone spend that much time when it is not necessary.
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Old and Slow
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2012, 02:06:03 PM »

Can't comment on the six mile thing, but know for a fact, people will go to any lengths where money is concerned. They don't seem concerned about the health of a horse when they give them EPO, so a six mile workout seems in play.   
The "six mile thing" is the focal point of swoody's conspiracy thoery. It is absolute nonsense.
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I know one thing for sure.  Indecision may or may not be my problem.
Pal B
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2012, 02:43:27 PM »

The "six mile thing" is the focal point of swoody's conspiracy thoery. It is absolute nonsense.

My point is people will risk buying illegal drugs, administering those drugs, trying to beat pre and post race testing, conspiring to fix the outcome of races, all with the consequences of going to jail, and you think it is ridiculous to work a horse six miles on race day? People also put sponges in their noses-who would have thought? Anything is possible. I don't really believe a six mile workout would make a horse break, but could alter their performance quite a bit. If you think all races are on the up and up, then good luck to you. I wish I could name names, but I won't. 
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knowitall
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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2012, 03:28:16 PM »

Right so your telling us a trainer is going to train a horse six miles at 2:10 to tire him so he breaks during the race and flushes money.  So the next time the horse races he gets odds.  What the f--k kind of trainer would do this risky his monthly rate and the horses health.  If owners caught onto that thinking the trainer also risking his career.  Dumbest thing I think I have heard on the site.  Six mile training session before a race whatever get back to the crack pipe.

First point: according to your cohorts it doesn't hurt a horse at all so there was no affect on Oosting's horse who lost at 3/5.

Second: You said "what the f--k kind of trainer would do this risky his monthly rate and the horses health."(?)

So can I assume you agree that doing this to a horse before his race is risking the horse's health?

Also would you agree that training 6 miles right before shipping to race would diminish his chances of winning?

Lastly there were two owners present who said this is not a new way to lose. It happens and they have heard this story before.

But they thought it was an extreme method used by the bottomfeeders to cash a ticket. 
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knowitall
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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2012, 03:34:16 PM »

Swoody, I don't even know how to begin, so help me out here.

In your world, what is a jog mile (timewise) and what is a training mile (again, timewise)?

I want to know if you know the difference before we go any further.

TIA

Edit:  Assume the track is a 1/2 mile limestone all-weather track in good shape

First go "F" yourself.  I have owned and bred race horses.

Secondly starting a jog session at :30 quarters and keeping up the pace for as long as the horse can go is basically what happened.

Show me you know the difference?

Why don't trainers jog a horse in the morning 3-6 miles on race day?
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knowitall
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2012, 03:43:15 PM »

Sharp post. 

I should have read a little futher before I replied to your earlier post.

Obviously you agree with Illinois sucks.  So do I.

So why would me telling you what happened have anything to do with how much I know about training a horse?

Maybe those mornings at Earl's Barn, Ledfraud's barn and Erv's barn showed me the standard daily routine of a horse in training.

And knowing the routine of my horses on race day made this conversation stand out as abusive behavior.

Why not jog 6 miles in the morning at a 3 minute clip on race day?  These other guys say it doesn't hurt their performance.
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knowitall
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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2012, 03:49:58 PM »

Do you think a trainer would do this if he owned the horse, knowing he is sitting on a win at a particular class or condition, and can potentially make an extra two or three grand tax free wagering seven days later? Not as crazy as it sounds. Can't comment on the six mile thing, but know for a fact, people will go to any lengths where money is concerned. They don't seem concerned about the health of a horse when they give them EPO, so a six mile workout seems in play.   


Thank You.

I was just trying to relay what happened and why the horse lost.

30 years ago I would not have believed it or repeated it on a forum without seeing it first hand.

But I trust the source and the guys with training licenses in Illinois today are gambling not training to win for the purse.

With all the cheating and drugs that are used in Illinois it wasn't a stretch to think someone would find another way to lose legally.
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knowitall
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« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2012, 04:17:21 PM »

Bullshit!!  Where do you come up with this stuff.  You need a reality check.  That never happens.  Dumbest post I have ever read. If you want to tank one you would never have to go to that much work to do it.  Why would anyone spend that much time when it is not necessary.


EPO, DPO, Gout medication, milkshakes, cocaine, morphine, codeine, etorphine, fentanyl, endogenous opiates, amphetamines, dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, benzedrine, caffeine, theobromine, niketamide, dextromoramide, methylphenidate, phenylpropanolamine, prolintane, testosterone, nandrolone, stanozolol, boldenone, acepromazine, snake venom, snail venom, frog venom and spider venom just to name a few ways to cheat.

What you say? Bullshit?  Drugging to win never happens? I need a what?  Reality check? Where do "I" come up with this stuff?

I beg to differ. Where do you guys come up with all this stuff?

After reading the short list of the inventive ways honest horsemen use to cheat you can't believe someone would over exercise to lose?

It's t-o-o-o-o much work?  T-o-o-o-o much time and not necessary?

What if it is the safest way to not get caught?   
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knowitall
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« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2012, 04:31:38 PM »

My point is people will risk buying illegal drugs, administering those drugs, trying to beat pre and post race testing, conspiring to fix the outcome of races, all with the consequences of going to jail, and you think it is ridiculous to work a horse six miles on race day? People also put sponges in their noses-who would have thought? Anything is possible. I don't really believe a six mile workout would make a horse break, but could alter their performance quite a bit. If you think all races are on the up and up, then good luck to you. I wish I could name names, but I won't. 

Sponges in their noses! doh   I forgot that one. doh


Better watch out.  There are some clowns responding here that are stuck in the middle ages.

They will focus on a small part of what you say to divert attention away from the big picture.

Even when their focal point is "nonsense" and is not relevent to understanding the content of your post. 
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2012, 04:33:39 PM »


You are a friggin idiot who jumped in over your empty head the last time.

Jury is still out on that one, ace, as I have a question in to the IRB about what having $492 "still alive" in a $15k pick 4 pool actually means. So far the somewhat inscrutable explanation from Balmoral seems to indicate that's the total original cost of the tickets that are still alive, not 492 different live tickets.
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knowitall
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« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2012, 04:49:46 PM »

Bullshit!!  Where do you come up with this stuff.  You need a reality check.  That never happens.  Dumbest post I have ever read. If you want to tank one you would never have to go to that much work to do it.  Why would anyone spend that much time when it is not necessary.


Would you be referring to the more traditional ways to lose?

Like giving a horse drugs to slow them down like:acepromazine, diazepam, reserpine, chlorbutol, timolol, propranolol, etc...

There are thousands of benzodiazepines, barbiturates and other central nervous system depressants that have been synthesized.

They are easier to give than having to spend time over exercising one?  What about getting caught?
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