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Author Topic: Combined political thread  (Read 7647 times)
Pal B
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« Reply #225 on: November 10, 2012, 09:35:24 PM »

Yes. Exactly. It was proposed long before they actually did get in trouble due to Bush's "ownership society" and "0% down". Had those irresponsible Republican policies been in place in 2003, who knows what might have been different.

Still not quite clear what any of this has to do with Bush's lies about Iraq?

What lies? And why are you dodging the fact that the Democrats were as much to blame if not more than Bush. Why did Clinton address it if no problems. You think they are supposed to wait until it bursts to address it.

More Barney quotes:
(In 2005) when the Bush administration proposed a lot tighter regulation of the two organizations, Frank was adamant that “these two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any type of monetary crisis.” When the White Home warned of “systemic risk for our monetary method” unless the mortgage giants had been curbed, Frank complained that the administration was more concerned about monetary safety than about housing.

2006: Barney Frank: “I believe it is a good thing that housing costs are dropping. A couple of speculators get stung, that’s icing on the cake. The cake is… the cake is that individuals can afford to acquire houses now. A 10% drop in housing prices is a excellent thing. Housing was over-valued.”

Bush was irresponsible-give me a break.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #226 on: November 10, 2012, 09:38:31 PM »

Waiting for Obama to give it away-some of his stash.

That particular bud is only for people capable of making it to President, not nobodies like you. (See Harold and Kumar and Bush.)

Which brings us back to what are YOU smoking tonight?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #227 on: November 10, 2012, 09:50:37 PM »

What lies?

The lies everyone now knows about, like "yellowcake" and "al-Quaida [not in and never in] Iraq" (prior to the war).

Quote
And why are you dodging the fact that the Democrats were as much to blame if not more than Bush.

For that war that robbed so many American families of their loved ones? No, sorry, that was Bush and Cheney the liars.

Quote
Why did Clinton address it if no problems.

Why do you keep changing the subject? You asked why we hated Bush, and I told you, but you keep right on diverting the subject?  screwy

The financial/mortgage meltdown happened on the Bush/Republican watch. That's the bottom line. Your party had the majority in Congress until 2006. If you didn't resolve things before then (which you didn't, of course, because "conservative" is a synonym for "do nothing"), then don't try and retroactively blame the Great Republican Recession on someone else. No one is fooled. The American public knows. That's why your ass was rejected the past two elections, despite your noise. The true "silent majority" of Americans showed up last Tuesday and said, "F** off, Republican liars". 
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Pal B
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« Reply #228 on: November 10, 2012, 10:15:07 PM »

That particular bud is only for people capable of making it to President, not nobodies like you. (See Harold and Kumar and Bush.)

Which brings us back to what are YOU smoking tonight?

There you go with the insults. Do you guys have a manual that says sling insults when you are wrong? I am a nobody and happy as can be! 51 and semi retired. If you are comparing me to Bush, I am indeed honored. I feel he is one of the finest people I have ever seen. Sure he had a rough start, but he overcame his faults to be a great father, husband, and leader. You guys are the perfect party for sure.  
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #229 on: November 10, 2012, 10:22:23 PM »

I was against the war in Iraq before it started. If you will recall, Hans Blix told the US on several occasions there were no WMD's in Iraq after his inspections. The US ordered him out of there anyway and gave him 2 weeks to get out. Then there was the false testimony to Congress of the existence of yellow cake and aluminum tubes that got the approval to go to war.

When Bush left office, the deficit was, according to CBS News:  "It was $10.626 trillion on President Bush's last day in office, which coincided with President Obama's first day."

Mel, I wouldn't classify articles from Forbes, CNN, etc. as hearsay.  The articles you post are from blogs, which don't have a lot of credibility.  Here's one from the Associated Press:

http://news.yahoo.com/gop-showing-calif-worries-party-strategists-185749953--election.html

Also, the article regarding Spire Law Group is also from a blog.  Here's the law firm's link.  The firm began representing these clients in 2008 (when Bush was in office) and filed the lawsuit March 12, 2009 (Obama was inaugurated in January, 2009; he wasn't in office for 100 days at that point).

http://spire-law.com/the-firm/

This is really funny.  Karl Rove is saying Obama won by suppressing the vote and he said it on Fox News. Even Fox News didn't buy this one.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/rove-claims-obama-won-suppressing-vote-article-1.1199221

I don't know if many of you know this but George Bush's nickname for Karl Rove was "Turd Blossom".  Bush got a lot of things wrong but this he got right.  If you don't believe me, read for yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turd_Blossom
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Pal B
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« Reply #230 on: November 10, 2012, 10:55:08 PM »

The lies everyone now knows about, like "yellowcake" and "al-Quaida [not in and never in] Iraq" (prior to the war).

For that war that robbed so many American families of their loved ones? No, sorry, that was Bush and Cheney the liars.

Why do you keep changing the subject? You asked why we hated Bush, and I told you, but you keep right on diverting the subject?  screwy

The financial/mortgage meltdown happened on the Bush/Republican watch. That's the bottom line. Your party had the majority in Congress until 2006. If you didn't resolve things before then (which you didn't, of course, because "conservative" is a synonym for "do nothing"), then don't try and retroactively blame the Great Republican Recession on someone else. No one is fooled. The American public knows. That's why your ass was rejected the past two elections, despite your noise. The true "silent majority" of Americans showed up last Tuesday and said, "F** off, Republican liars". 

Why would your party back the war if they knew Bush was a habitual liar? Isn't that their responsibility to investigate the facts and make an informed decision? Isn't that why we hold elections? Obama has repeatedly offered up proposals and legislation yet there is some opposition by both sides on occasion. That is their job to protect the interest of the nation as a check and balance. You can't blame someone else for your mistakes.
 I have been fortunate up to this point and have not lost a family member in these wars. We still have a nephew in Afghanistan, and have had family members in both Iraq Wars. It is hard to digest at times, but our whole family knew it was a possibility to end up in the middle east. My nephew enlisted just to go. I don't talk about the war being a bad decision because I believe it is one of the most disrespectful things you can do to a person who has lost a loved one. Many still back it in spite of their loss and some don't and their opinions are much more important than mine. If it makes you feel better-go for it.  
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #231 on: November 10, 2012, 11:18:57 PM »

Here's some more articles.  The first is: President Obama's Victory, 6 Conservatives Behaving Like Sore Losers:

http://news.yahoo.com/president-obamas-victory-6-conservatives-behaving-sore-losers-144500482--election.html

And:  GOP confronts 'angry white guy' problem by rethinking immigration amnesty:

http://news.yahoo.com/gop-confronts-angry-white-guy-problem-rethinking-immigration-152154696.html
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mel4600
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« Reply #232 on: November 11, 2012, 07:40:43 AM »

Maryann, honestly, the stuff you quote and state as fact is so ridiculous that it does not merit a response. When you post articles that claim Romney paid $1.9 million in taxes and his actual released returned shows he paid $3.2 million; and you still sit in denial , you are totally helpless. Now I know how Jesse Jr. and his indicted cohorts get re-elected.  head shake
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mottoman
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« Reply #233 on: November 11, 2012, 08:08:57 AM »

Mary Ann are you watching to much MSN?   Fox and MSN are both complete spinners that are helping to divide this nation.   
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #234 on: November 11, 2012, 08:50:48 AM »

Maryann, honestly, the stuff you quote and state as fact is so ridiculous that it does not merit a response. When you post articles that claim Romney paid $1.9 million in taxes and his actual released returned shows he paid $3.2 million; and you still sit in denial , you are totally helpless. Now I know how Jesse Jr. and his indicted cohorts get re-elected.  head shake

What is ridiculous is when you won't take a few minutes to check things out, Mel.

* In January of this year, Romney *estimated* that he paid $3.2 million in taxes in 2011.

Source: http://www.republicanprofiles.com/news/obamas-release-tax-returns/    (See paragraph 6)

* When his ACTUAL tax forms for 2011 were filed, it turned out that he paid $1.9 million in taxes for 2011.

Source: http://www.boston.com/news/source/2012/09/mitt_romney_rel.html

Mel, you owe Mary Ann an apology, IMO.

(And an aside to mottoman: Dude, stop. You have been SO weak on the facts this election...most people would have stopped posting out of sheer embarassment. Just step back, really. You're too light.)
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #235 on: November 11, 2012, 09:38:15 AM »

There you go with the insults. Do you guys have a manual that says sling insults when you are wrong?

You mean like when you started in above on having Michael Moore do some of my editing?

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I am a nobody and happy as can be! 51 and semi retired. If you are comparing me to Bush, I am indeed honored.

I wasn't.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #236 on: November 11, 2012, 09:42:45 AM »

Why would your party back the war if they knew Bush was a habitual liar?

I don't believe I claimed they knew that. His lies that took the country to war only became evident after the fact.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #237 on: November 11, 2012, 09:46:59 AM »

Mary Ann are you watching to much MSN?   Fox and MSN are both complete spinners that are helping to divide this nation.   

 thumbs up

Along with the radio hate-mongers like Rush and Big Ed.

And the right and left wing spin pubs like Washington Times and The Nation.

Not to mention worthless websites like worldnetdaily.
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« Reply #238 on: November 11, 2012, 10:52:45 AM »

I don't believe I claimed they knew that. His lies that took the country to war only became evident after the fact.

We were all supposed to figure out the lies in the 30 seconds between Dubya announcing the false evidence, and his announcing that it justified our going after Hussein

for the years earlier assassination attempt on Bush Sr.

for Hussein masterminding the 9/11 attacks

because we didn't like him very much

...er, why was Hussein the first target, again?  I mean, the REAL reason, not the WMD bullcrap story. dunno
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #239 on: November 11, 2012, 11:23:24 AM »

...er, why was Hussein the first target, again?  I mean, the REAL reason, not the WMD bullcrap story. dunno

Interesting story from way back in 2003, on the lies, self-deceptions, and possible REAL motivation:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/05/12/030512fa_fact?currentPage=1

And even more on the theory of "reverse dominoes" by which the Iraq War was supposed to establish a friendly pro-Western [oil rich] democracy in the Middle East, and lead the entire region to overthrow their dictators and establish democracies (which actually seems to have worked, but isn't playing out exactly the way the Bushies planned so they hammer Obama about it.)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/truth/why/dominoes.html
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Pal B
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« Reply #240 on: November 11, 2012, 12:05:33 PM »

Didn't the Democrats only back the war for political reasons instead of moral? The country wanted revenge and the Democrats were afraid to vote against it because of the slam dunk in the previous war with Iraq. The popular opinion was to retaliate and if someone voted no, they knew the would risk losing re-election if this played out like it did previously. Your party put power in front of morals. You can spin it all you want. They voted-they went.
If Bush and Cheney did lie, then how can you support this administration for not doing their public duty of bringing them to justice? They are suppose to uphold the laws and values of this country. He had congress in his first two years, yet no charges brought to either one? Surely he has access to the same info you do? Why are you not attacking your party for not upholding the laws of this land?     
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #241 on: November 11, 2012, 12:27:52 PM »

Thanks, Terry, and you are correct that Mel owes me an apology.  Mel has just shown us all what is wrong with Fox News and where people are getting their news from.  All of the articles I posted come from journalists, reporters, news services, members of the press while Mel likes to get his news from Fox News and blogs.  This is why people are so misinformed about the truth and facts; they are not going to the sources that provide the truth and facts. I am what is known as a "news junkie".  Never was one until Bush got in office and started the war but have been ever since. I am very confident that I can debunk any myth that Mel throws out there. In fact, I've been finding it real easy.

As far as Iraq goes, everyone is forgetting about the neoconservatives who were in
Bush's cabinet and administration, the masterminds behind the war. This included Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Armitage, just to name a few and off the top of my head, who followed Bill Krystol. It was their belief that the US was the world's police and a war in the Middle East would bring democracy to that region.  And let's not forget how Scooter Libby (Armitage was implicated too) outed Valerie Plame (an act of treason, in my opinion) because of the yellow cake lie.

I believe it was in 2006 that Bush admitted there was no connection of Iraq to 9/11.  Saddam did not like Al-Qaeda and kept them out of Iraq. Is everyone also aware that it was Donald Rumsfeld who brokered a deal, under Reagan in the 1980's when Iraq was our ally, to provide Iraq with chemicals to use against Iran? Those were also the chemicals Saddam used to test on some of Iraq's own citizens, the ones he didn't like.

There are essentially three theories on why we went to war with Iraq: 1) the neoconservatives, 2) the American interest of oil, and 3) Bush's payback to Saddam to avenge his father for the first war in 1991. It certainly could be a combination of the three. At least $60 billion of taxpayer money paid to private contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan is unaccounted for and Cheney's Halliburton made out like bandits. When Fox News pushes Solyndra, I have to laugh because that was a drop in the bucket dollar-wise and it didn't cost anyone their life.

Oh, and the assumption that I watch MSN is also incorrect. I get my news from reliable and many sources, not just one.

We can all be thankful that Romney did not get into office. Besides other reasons, he has no foreign affairs experience and we could have gotten into the same mess with Iran as we did with Iraq.  It could have been even worse with Iran. Not only could it have been nuclear, we could have had a financial meltdown at the same time.
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« Reply #242 on: November 11, 2012, 12:53:26 PM »

Didn't the Democrats only back the war blah blah blah

Why didn't the R party go further than impeaching Clinton for lying under oath?

For the same reason the Dems didn't try to hang Dubya by his toenails: there was nothing in it for them, politically speaking.

(They are all STILL politicians, remember?)

That doesn't mean that WE can't point out Dubya's (many) faults and sins. He was equal parts dirty and ineffective, and you know it, so stop with the facetiousness and righteous indignation over what any one group of people did or did not do in response to Dubya's misdeeds.

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« Reply #243 on: November 11, 2012, 01:19:53 PM »

Didn't the Democrats only back the war for political reasons instead of moral?

I don't know why each one voted as he or she did. Do you have some authoritative source that details each member's motivation(s)?

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If Bush and Cheney did lie, then how can you support this administration for not doing their public duty of bringing them to justice?

That would rip the country apart.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #244 on: November 11, 2012, 01:25:31 PM »

Thanks, Terry, and you are correct that Mel owes me an apology.

Actually, that presentation of actual facts about Romney's tax returns was HV's work.

Quote
As far as Iraq goes, everyone is forgetting about the neoconservatives who were in Bush's cabinet and administration, the masterminds behind the war. This included Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Armitage, just to name a few and off the top of my head, who followed Bill Krystol. It was their belief that the US was the world's police and a war in the Middle East would bring democracy to that region.

As per the New Yorker story above.

Quote
I believe it was in 2006 that Bush admitted there was no connection of Iraq to 9/11.

I think it was Cheney?

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We can all be thankful that Romney did not get into office. Besides other reasons, he has no foreign affairs experience and we could have gotten into the same mess with Iran as we did with Iraq.  It could have been even worse with Iran. Not only could it have been nuclear, we could have had a financial meltdown at the same time.

The Romney/Republican agenda/platform of 2012 was simply doubling or tripling down on all the same, tired, failed, & discredited Bush policies. It's why the true silent majority of Americans arose on election day, totally surprised the right wing noise machine, and rejected those old, tired policies.
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« Reply #245 on: November 11, 2012, 02:00:32 PM »

Thanks HV and Terry.  Terry, I saw your post after I posted mine and read the New Yorker article you provided.  I forgot about Richard Perle.  He was that pastey, vampire looking one lurking in the shadows.

I remember reading back in 2006 that Bush admitted there was no connection to Iraq and 9/11 because I thought to myself at that time that it took 3 years to get that out of him. If you will recall in Romney's campaign speeches, he kept saying he was going to increase defense spending. I wasn't sure if he was planning on using that as corporate welfare for the defense contractors or if he was planning on going to war with Iran. I'm glad we will not find that out.
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« Reply #246 on: November 11, 2012, 02:05:22 PM »

I was wrong about the year Bush admitted no connection of Iraq to 9/11.  It was 2003.

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Bush-No-Iraq-link-to-9-11-found-1124580.php
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #247 on: November 11, 2012, 02:31:17 PM »

I was wrong about the year Bush admitted no connection of Iraq to 9/11.  It was 2003.

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Bush-No-Iraq-link-to-9-11-found-1124580.php

What I was thinking of was Cheney's admission in 2009 that there was no relationship:

"I do not believe and have never seen any evidence to confirm that [Hussein] was involved in 9/11. We had that reporting for a while, [but] eventually it turned out not to be true," Cheney conceded."

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-01/politics/cheney.speech_1_saddam-hussein-qaeda-iraqi-intelligence-officials?_s=PM:POLITICS

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« Reply #248 on: November 11, 2012, 04:06:50 PM »

Let's help the conservatives out here with a prescription for improvement of their position:

1.  Dump the tea party and religious right.  They just make you look like a cheap, hateful group.  Let them form their own party.

2.  Embrace the immigrants, especially the Latinos.  They are big source for improvement for our country.  They want to get ahead, isn't that what the conservatives are all about?

3.  Don't tell women what to do with their reproductive systems.  That is up to them to determine which way they want to go.  A child should be welcomed and not looked at as accident.  It just means more neglected, abused children in the welfare system.

4.  Look up the definition of the word:  COMPROMISE!  To solve our problems, yes, cuts should be made, but revenue must be generated especially from those who benefit the most in our society.  Not all spending is wasteful, except for some of the wars we get into.  There are real costs to running a government and they go up, like everything else.

5.  Set goals that benefit all in our country.  Example of a good goal:  concentrate on the health and education of our children.  Example of a bad goal:  "Our goal is to make Obama a one-term President."

If conservatives follow these suggestions, they just might be back in power.  Old white men do not constitute the power base that they once were anymore.

End of pontificating.
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Pal B
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« Reply #249 on: November 11, 2012, 08:11:50 PM »

What I was thinking of was Cheney's admission in 2009 that there was no relationship:

"I do not believe and have never seen any evidence to confirm that [Hussein] was involved in 9/11. We had that reporting for a while, [but] eventually it turned out not to be true," Cheney conceded."

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-01/politics/cheney.speech_1_saddam-hussein-qaeda-iraqi-intelligence-officials?_s=PM:POLITICS



These are some of the revelations to George Piro of the FBI by Saddam:


Among Saddam’s revelations:

■Saddam misled the world into believing that he had weapons of mass destruction in the months leading up to the war because he feared another invasion by Iran, but he did fully intend to rebuild his WMD program.
■Piro told 60 Minutes that Saddam considered Usama bin Laden “a fanatic” and a threat who couldn’t be trusted.
■The former dictator admitted “initially miscalculating President Bush and President Bush’s intentions,” Piro said, thinking the war would be more like the shortened air campaign of the Gulf War.
■Saddam never used look-alikes or body doubles as widely believed, thinking no one could really play his part.
■Hussein made the decision to invade neighboring Kuwait in 1990 following an insulting comment by one of its emirs.

As you can see he said he did not have WMD's but was playing the game and he intended to get them back. You would think our country would be happy we didn't wait until another tradgedy occured. From his own mouth yet we take the heresay of those who had an opinion but no fact. You would think the massive graves containing hundreds of bodies he assassinated would have been enough.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/january/piro012808
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