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Author Topic: Combined political thread  (Read 6264 times)
pamwaggy
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« Reply #175 on: November 08, 2012, 11:35:53 PM »

And please understand I do not condone abortion as a means of birth control.  There are just some situations that it's tolerable and needed.  

OK, I am finished with this thread in honor of Janine's rules.  I have already gone to far when I know what the rules are.

Sorry Janine.
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mel4600
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« Reply #176 on: November 09, 2012, 12:39:38 AM »

Thanks, Mel...but in my examples, I already gave Obama 100% of the black vote, 100% of the Hispanic vote, and 100% of the non-white vote.

So all you are telling me is that the number of whites that voted for Obama is WAY MORE than the 27 million I quoted earlier.

That means that whites provided OVER HALF of Obama's vote total...that's mind-boggling!

My point was that blacks only vote Democratic blacks. Whites vote just party for the most part in any color. Blacks voted Jesse Jr. in and he is going to be indicted as soon as he is cured from his phony nervous breakdown. They also voted and elected that other idiot that was indicted even though the democrats had another black democrat run as an independent against him. This is why at the end of they day their community is deteriorating and will continue to do so. This is the future of the far left? Republicans need to simply drive a wedge by giving the Hispanics a path to citizenship and allow everyone to receive a green card who is law abiding and they will switch in a hurry. Most Hispanics are serious Catholics,  pro life and anti-gay marriage.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 12:58:22 AM by mel4600 » Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
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« Reply #177 on: November 09, 2012, 12:46:22 AM »


You have to look at the NET EFFECT of the man's work. Romney's not a builder, he's a DESTROYER.



Can you give me an example of the NET EFFECT you are referring to? By the way, this thread has been the most civil debate I have seen in politics this year. beer
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #178 on: November 09, 2012, 07:40:49 AM »

Never in this thread did I mention anything about illegals !!!!!!!

No, you didn't, and I didn't say you have, but the comment I made to HV about you and the vegetables was about the subsidy that you, as an American, receive because of their cheap labor. Labor that's paid for on the back end by tax dollars that go to benefits they and their families they get.

Quote
The bone I have to pick is with the free loading Americans that would rather have generation after generation sit on their lazy asses knowing Uncle Sam will take care of them.

Yes, that is where we came in, with your out-of-the-blue comment [apparently] on why Obama won:

The black population would vote for a black sheep leading them over a cliff !!!
Oh please, slavery ended in this country 150 years ago, the majority just want a free hand out.
Im not saying what was done in the past was right.

But why do so many think they are entitled to everything for nothing.

With the gas and food examples I was merely pointing out some of the many government handouts you also receive.

But, for the sake of going back to your original point, here are some actual statistics on who receives welfare:

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Total welfare recipients: 4.1 million. Percentage of those who are black: ~40%  So, total blacks on welfare: 1,640,000

And, total black population in the U.S.: 42,000,000

42,000,000 vs 1.6 million. That's quite a difference, isn't it. A little over 40,000,000 fellow human beings you unfairly characterized in quite an prejudiced manner with your previous statements.
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« Reply #179 on: November 09, 2012, 10:53:28 AM »

Can you give me an example of the NET EFFECT you are referring to?

The *definitive* example of NET EFFECT would be if I tallied up EVERY company with whom Bain Capital did business over the years, and measured whether jobs were added or lost in each relationship. I can't do that. I don't know who can.

The quote the Romney campaign liked to use was that Bain "...saved 75% of the companies with whom they were engaged." I think you are smart enough, Mel, to realize that the chief method of so-called "saving" a company is to cut the labor force like crazy. You don't save companies by cutting back on paper and toner use by 10%.
 
It's a quick hit -- "Corporate Crack Cocaine", I call it --that slash & burn type consultants like Bain use to get a nice one-time bump for their customer's balance sheet...but it leaves a trail of human suffering in its wake, in the form of massive job losses.

I don't begrudge Corporate America's right to do such things; they are perfectly legal under the current laws, even if morally questionable...but to be the guy that heads the firm the says where to swing the ax (while reaping truly sick amounts of money for doing so!), then coming out and asking to lead us, "the common people"? It's like a porn star retiring from the adult film industry, then asking to be elected Pope. Sorry, what you "used to do" for a living DOES come into question when you ask to become a U.S. President...even if you were wildly successful at it.

Thinking people that did their homework on Romney simply said "HELL NO!" We didn't really want to vote for Obama; we just needed to make sure Romney didn't get in. 

By the way, this thread has been the most civil debate I have seen in politics this year. beer

That's because all of the folks that couldn't control their tempers have been banned from this Forum.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #180 on: November 09, 2012, 11:07:14 AM »

CoulD Barek Obbam'a outRide RuseL Baize on a 36/75s MileS trCaK?
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mel4600
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« Reply #181 on: November 09, 2012, 11:09:46 AM »

The *definitive* example of NET EFFECT would be if I tallied up EVERY company with whom Bain Capital did business over the years, and measured whether jobs were added or lost in each relationship. I can't do that. I don't know who can.

The quote the Romney campaign liked to use was that Bain "...saved 75% of the companies with whom they were engaged." I think you are smart enough, Mel, to realize that the chief method of so-called "saving" a company is to cut the labor force like crazy. You don't save companies by cutting back on paper and toner use by 10%.
 

Bain saved thousands of jobs without federal tax dollars. When take over a failing company you must cut the waste and start being profitable or everyone will lose their jobs. So if a company is doing under with a 1,000 jobs at stake when a Bain takeover occurs and the jobs are reduced to 750; do you say he saved 750 jobs or was the reason 250 jobs were lost?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 11:11:46 AM by mel4600 » Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
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« Reply #182 on: November 09, 2012, 11:11:03 AM »


That's because all of the folks that couldn't control their tempers have been banned from this Forum.

You and I as still here... Wink
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #183 on: November 09, 2012, 11:27:52 AM »

Bain saved thousands of jobs without federal tax dollars. When take over a failing company you must cut the waste and start being profitable or everyone will lose their jobs. So if a company is doing under with a 1,000 jobs at stake when a Bain takeover occurs and the jobs are reduced to 750; do you say he saved 750 jobs or was the reason 250 jobs were lost?

We could argue numbers all day, Mel. That isn't the point.

The point is, the things that made Mitt Romney successful as the leader of Bain Capital were perceived to work against him as the potential leader of the free world.

The election results confirm this: we both know Obama was ripe for the picking, should have been dumped outright, and that almost any other average schmo the Repugs put in would have likely been elected in a landslide.

What the hell was Romney going to do, "fire" or ship 10% of our citizens overseas until he balanced the budget and got control of the deficit and the national debt? The President can't slash bodies to achieve national fiscal health.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #184 on: November 09, 2012, 11:51:56 AM »

You and I as still here... Wink

Yeah, but when we get mad, we work in an insult on the sly (usually); if we started calling each other "poopiehead" or some other nonsense, we would get smacked by the invisible hand.
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childewood
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« Reply #185 on: November 09, 2012, 02:00:00 PM »

We could argue numbers all day, Mel. That isn't the point.

The point is, the things that made Mitt Romney successful as the leader of Bain Capital were perceived to work against him as the potential leader of the free world.

The election results confirm this: we both know Obama was ripe for the picking, should have been dumped outright, and that almost any other average schmo the Repugs put in would have likely been elected in a landslide.

What the hell was Romney going to do, "fire" or ship 10% of our citizens overseas until he balanced the budget and got control of the deficit and the national debt? The President can't slash bodies to achieve national fiscal health.
  Great points by both Mel and HV.  thumbs up
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mel4600
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« Reply #186 on: November 09, 2012, 02:31:35 PM »


What the hell was Romney going to do, "fire" or ship 10% of our citizens overseas until he balanced the budget and got control of the deficit and the national debt? The President can't slash bodies to achieve national fiscal health.

If Obama does not balance our budget (in my eyes its impossible with his economic thought) we will become another Greece. Time will tell if Romney was the right man for the job.
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mark5sl
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« Reply #187 on: November 09, 2012, 08:38:37 PM »

I think they may have to come up with a budget before they try to balance it Bomb
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #188 on: November 09, 2012, 09:02:39 PM »

Two days after the election, Sean “Insanity” Hannity has “evolved” regarding immigration reform.  I can't wait to see how Jan Brewer reacts to this. Maybe we'll see her point her finger at Hannity. Does anyone really believe Hannity would be evolved now if Mitt had won? And that’s how Fox News operates. They will tell their viewers anything even if they mislead and misinform. They are guilty of having a big part in creating the division, polarization and class warfare that exists in this country and that class warfare is really about the middle class itself, fighting amongst itself for the scraps. I have friends who are Republicans and although I do not like their politics, I like them as friends. Because I will not watch Fox News knowing they are just a propaganda machine for the right wing, from my friends, I am made aware of the garbage Fox News sensationalizes and pushes to turn one another against each other. Example: the other day my friends talked about how terrible it was that some utility crews from the South were turned away from helping the Sandy victims just because they were not union. I keep up with the news every day and I heard nothing about this so I googled it and found there was nothing really to it; just a technical glitch and they were welcomed to help out even though they were non-union. It is amazing how some allow themselves to be lied to and brainwashed by Fox News.

sean-hannity-john-boehner-gop-tackle-immigration-reform-142212570--election
 
Other than Fox News viewers who were told Fannie and Freddie almost destroyed our economy (Fox left out it was the banks who decimated Fannie and Freddie with toxic mortgages), we all know it was really the big investment banks on Wall Street (the private sector).  Who in the middle class in their right mind would vote for a former Wall Streeter for president?  Would it surprise you to know Wall Street wanted one of their own in office?
 
From a Wall Street Journal article from November 7, 2012, written by David Weidner, referring to the U.S. elections, "Wall Street, as usual, spent an enormous amount of money - more than $400 million in 2012 - and didn't emerge with much to show for it." "Not the least of which is the defeat of Mitt Romney, a former private-equity executive who promised to cut or at least review financial regulation while offering more tax breaks for investors. Mr. Romney was perhaps the best hope for Wall Street this fall. He was one of their own, so tantalizingly close to the biggest trading floor of all."

The bottom line is Mitt paid 14.1% federal income taxes in 2011, according to his campaign, and that includes the deductions he got on his charitable contributions. (he made $13.7 million and paid $1.94 million in federal income taxes - no way does that amount to 20%). In fact, he could have claimed more deductions on the charitable contributions but didn't because his tax rate would have fallen below 13%. He didn't want that to happen because he has said he has paid at least 13% each year for the last ten years. He has three years to claim those additional deductions if he chooses so he eventually may pay less than 13% for 2011. So, Mitt has a lower tax rate than the middle class.

You can watch Mitt himself tell how much his 2011 tax rate is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ_kgNj2Ug8

http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2012/09/21/romney-paid-at-14-rate-in-2011-pegs-20-year-average-at-20/

As you've probably seen today, Boehner has said he will not increase taxes on the wealthy. He really doesn't have any leverage because the tax cuts he's trying to preserve will expire if the U.S. goes over the fiscal cliff.
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mark5sl
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« Reply #189 on: November 09, 2012, 09:12:03 PM »

Over 280 days without a Goverrment budget. [scm]For most of all of my posts
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Yimmy
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« Reply #190 on: November 09, 2012, 09:19:44 PM »

The nation was most "polarized" in, erm, 1860, when the election of Abraham Lincoln led to a little thing called secession of the southern states. Fox News to my knowledge had nothing to do with this.  

As far as I know, we have always had at least a two-party system, and most (though by no means all) US presidential elections have been polarized.  Again, this is an inescapable fact of US history, having nothing whatsoever to do with Fox News.  Nixon-Humphrey?  Dewey-Truman?  Where was Fox?   head shake

Most folks of my acquaintance on the Right do not really watch Fox News.  But they do read writers like Victor Davis Hanson, Jed Babbin, Charles Krauthammer, Thomas Sowell and Dinesh D'Souza.  

Needless to say, too many people on the Left have not the first clue who any of these writers are... hence the usual juvenile attacks on faTso LimBaGuh and AnN ColutEr, and yes, Fox News.

'twas ever thus.
 
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Pal B
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« Reply #191 on: November 09, 2012, 09:23:11 PM »

Two days after the election, Sean “Insanity” Hannity has “evolved” regarding immigration reform.  I can't wait to see how Jan Brewer reacts to this. Maybe we'll see her point her finger at Hannity. Does anyone really believe Hannity would be evolved now if Mitt had won? And that’s how Fox News operates. They will tell their viewers anything even if they mislead and misinform. They are guilty of having a big part in creating the division, polarization and class warfare that exists in this country and that class warfare is really about the middle class itself, fighting amongst itself for the scraps. I have friends who are Republicans and although I do not like their politics, I like them as friends. Because I will not watch Fox News knowing they are just a propaganda machine for the right wing, from my friends, I am made aware of the garbage Fox News sensationalizes and pushes to turn one another against each other. Example: the other day my friends talked about how terrible it was that some utility crews from the South were turned away from helping the Sandy victims just because they were not union. I keep up with the news every day and I heard nothing about this so I googled it and found there was nothing really to it; just a technical glitch and they were welcomed to help out even though they were non-union. It is amazing how some allow themselves to be lied to and brainwashed by Fox News.

sean-hannity-john-boehner-gop-tackle-immigration-reform-142212570--election
 
Other than Fox News viewers who were told Fannie and Freddie almost destroyed our economy (Fox left out it was the banks who decimated Fannie and Freddie with toxic mortgages), we all know it was really the big investment banks on Wall Street (the private sector).  Who in the middle class in their right mind would vote for a former Wall Streeter for president?  Would it surprise you to know Wall Street wanted one of their own in office?
 
From a Wall Street Journal article from November 7, 2012, written by David Weidner, referring to the U.S. elections, "Wall Street, as usual, spent an enormous amount of money - more than $400 million in 2012 - and didn't emerge with much to show for it." "Not the least of which is the defeat of Mitt Romney, a former private-equity executive who promised to cut or at least review financial regulation while offering more tax breaks for investors. Mr. Romney was perhaps the best hope for Wall Street this fall. He was one of their own, so tantalizingly close to the biggest trading floor of all."

The bottom line is Mitt paid 14.1% federal income taxes in 2011, according to his campaign, and that includes the deductions he got on his charitable contributions. (he made $13.7 million and paid $1.94 million in federal income taxes - no way does that amount to 20%). In fact, he could have claimed more deductions on the charitable contributions but didn't because his tax rate would have fallen below 13%. He didn't want that to happen because he has said he has paid at least 13% each year for the last ten years. He has three years to claim those additional deductions if he chooses so he eventually may pay less than 13% for 2011. So, Mitt has a lower tax rate than the middle class.

You can watch Mitt himself tell how much his 2011 tax rate is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ_kgNj2Ug8

http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2012/09/21/romney-paid-at-14-rate-in-2011-pegs-20-year-average-at-20/

As you've probably seen today, Boehner has said he will not increase taxes on the wealthy. He really doesn't have any leverage because the tax cuts he's trying to preserve will expire if the U.S. goes over the fiscal cliff.

Obama paid just over 20% in taxes. He contributed 22% to charity. Biden gave 1.5% to charity.($5500)
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #192 on: November 09, 2012, 09:28:50 PM »

Most folks of my acquaintance on the Right do not really watch Fox News.  But they do read writers like Victor Davis Hanson, Jed Babbin, Charles Krauthammer, Thomas Sowell and Dinesh D'Souza.  

I'm sure "most" do.  Roll Eyes
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #193 on: November 09, 2012, 11:02:32 PM »

It's interesting that those who have no interest in Fox News are defending it. What Hannity is doing right now is starting the manipulation process to convince the right to accept immigration reform because they now know Republicans will not win without the immigrants' votes. The Republican base, mostly consisting of older white folks, has been dwindling for quite a while. In my opinion, the Republican Party has painted themselves into a corner. The country has changed while they have not. I haven't heard a peep out of Reince Priebus since the election. I guess he's not even trying to spin the results.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #194 on: November 09, 2012, 11:08:58 PM »

It's interesting that those who have no interest in Fox News are defending it. What Hannity is doing right now is starting the manipulation process to convince the right to accept immigration reform because they now know Republicans will not win without the immigrants' votes. The Republican base, mostly consisting of older white folks, has been dwindling for quite a while. In my opinion, the Republican Party has painted themselves into a corner. The country has changed while they have not. I haven't heard a peep out of Reince Priebus since the election. I guess he's not even trying to spin the results.

A week ago The Manatee and every other Fixed News host was dead set against any sort of immigration reform, because they thought they could win while spewing hate for immigrants. Now it has apparently set in that they can't win that way, so they're trying to change the party line tune. And mark my words, in a couple years all the hillbilly crackers that support the right wing agenda will be right here on the forum parroting whatever Fox tells them to think about immigration and immigrants. 
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Yimmy
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« Reply #195 on: November 09, 2012, 11:21:48 PM »

WSJ has been pro-immigration since forever, but of course, that's not, like, on TV, so you folks wouldn't know about it.

Gee, I wonder who the iggerant-ass "hillbilly crackers" really are.   

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Pal B
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« Reply #196 on: November 09, 2012, 11:38:07 PM »

A week ago The Manatee and every other Fixed News host was dead set against any sort of immigration reform, because they thought they could win while spewing hate for immigrants. Now it has apparently set in that they can't win that way, so they're trying to change the party line tune. And mark my words, in a couple years all the hillbilly crackers that support the right wing agenda will be right here on the forum parroting whatever Fox tells them to think about immigration and immigrants. 

Could you provide some examples of this hatred by Fox or is this just an opinion? I agree they have stated that they need to be more open to immigration, but I never heard any hatred for immigrants. Please provide examples and I will send letters of my disapproval to the appropriate hosts. Hopefully you are not embellishing this. 
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« Reply #197 on: November 10, 2012, 12:07:52 AM »

Pal, I don't watch Fox News. I find out what's been on it from friends who watch it and discuss it.

Here's an article that talks about Hannity's complete reversal on immigration reform, called Fox News star Sean Hannity suddenly likes Immigration Reform.  Have a good night.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-pn-sean-hannity-immigration-20121109,0,796921.story
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Pal B
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« Reply #198 on: November 10, 2012, 12:22:34 AM »

Pal, I don't watch Fox News. I find out what's been on it from friends who watch it and discuss it.

Here's an article that talks about Hannity's complete reversal on immigration reform, called Fox News star Sean Hannity suddenly likes Immigration Reform.  Have a good night.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-pn-sean-hannity-immigration-20121109,0,796921.story

Thanks Mary Ann. The article says pretty much what he came out on his show and said. He is against illegal immigrants getting citizenship, but I don't think he hates immigrants. I am against illegals too and there are hundreds of thousands in this country that feel the same way including immigrants who did it the right way.
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mel4600
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« Reply #199 on: November 10, 2012, 06:58:17 AM »

Pal, I don't watch Fox News. I find out what's been on it from friends who watch it and discuss it.



I know you only listen to hearsay since you have yet to get your facts straight on anything. Here is something for you to chew on...http://counterpsyops.com/2012/10/28/43-trillion-lawsuit-against-holder-geithner-corzine-more/
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