Chicago Barn to Wire Breeders' Cup Handicapping Tournaments
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


October 31, 2014, 12:05:05 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Wise Dan...  (Read 2661 times)
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2307




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2012, 02:36:56 PM »

your going to hang your hat on track records ?  laughing guy laughing guy

despite 6 more starts than frankel how many gr 1's and cash did wise dan win in comparison to frankel ?

I don't hang my hat on track records, I hang my hat on competition. If the competition is good enough , track records follow. Who is the best horse Frankel beat in your opinion?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 03:24:41 PM by mel4600 » Report to moderator   Logged
TheRedMile
Guest

« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2012, 04:03:05 PM »

I don't hang my hat on track records, I hang my hat on competition. If the competition is good enough , track records follow. Who is the best horse Frankel beat in your opinion?
the most important thing in setting track records is the condition of the track on that day. i doubt you will say that wise dan's competition at keenland on the poly was what made the track record
euros rarely if at all race on the hard rock turf surfaces you see in the states

imo canford cliffs maybe the best horse frankel faced. he would be superior to anyone wise dan beat his entire career
Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2307




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2012, 06:24:40 PM »

the most important thing in setting track records is the condition of the track on that day. i doubt you will say that wise dan's competition at keenland on the poly was what made the track record
euros rarely if at all race on the hard rock turf surfaces you see in the states

imo canford cliffs maybe the best horse frankel faced. he would be superior to anyone wise dan beat his entire career

Pace sets records for the most part. Even the Euro's say Excellabration (according to Time Form) is the best horse Frankel beat. No matter, everyone has an opinion and Frankel is certainly an outstanding animal. Would have liked to see him in bigger races against better competition. In any event, its all a matter of opinion and Wise Dan will be racing for a few more years and hopefully they will take him to a few big races outside the U.S.
Report to moderator   Logged
TheRedMile
Guest

« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2012, 06:49:40 PM »

you are correct about pace for the most part sets records  it could be a rabbit or good competition
cirrus des aigels is another horse frankel beat who has the same timeform as excelebration at 135  wise dan is rated 134  the horse i mention raced last year
i was more impressed by wise dan's woodbine race than his bc race

and yes i am glad wise dan will be racing next yr
Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2307




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2012, 07:06:29 PM »

The 134 on Wise Dan was an old rating before the BC I believe (don't usually follow time form). I don't think they had him ranked at all a few months ago. Good luck to you... beer
Report to moderator   Logged
pamwaggy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8185




Ignore
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2012, 08:48:40 PM »

I can't figure out how to decide how to use the time form ratings versus the Beyer ratings.

I've been reading for two hours and it seems there are too many variables.  Yes?
Report to moderator   Logged
faster horses
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 478




Ignore
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2012, 08:55:22 PM »

Mel:  You're absolutely right.  Really.  Now shut up.

Everybody else:  Never argue with a crazy man.

Actually, I'm not upset at all--just messing with you.  I'm a huge WD fan. He's a terrific horse and a deserving HOY candidate.  But he's just not in Frankel's league.  You're comparing a really nice horse to an all-time great.  There's a difference.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 09:08:25 PM by faster horses » Report to moderator   Logged
faster horses
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 478




Ignore
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2012, 08:59:30 PM »

I can't figure out how to decide how to use the time form ratings versus the Beyer ratings.

I've been reading for two hours and it seems there are too many variables.  Yes?

Not really.  Just watch Frankel's videos.  When he shifts gears, it's scary awesome.  I don't think I've ever seen anything like it.
Report to moderator   Logged
pamwaggy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8185




Ignore
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2012, 09:12:29 PM »

Thank you.  I will do that.
Report to moderator   Logged
TheRedMile
Guest

« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2012, 09:56:22 PM »

I can't figure out how to decide how to use the time form ratings versus the Beyer ratings.

I've been reading for two hours and it seems there are too many variables.  Yes?

whether it is timeform or racing it is still just a guide / tool to use
along with those ratings you usually see euro horses carry more weight than in the america  they also rarely race on very hard and fast turf courses
also certain trainers don;t send them here often but if they do they deserve a look  the majority of the time we see their 2nd stringers coming over
Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2307




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2012, 06:52:42 AM »

Actually, I'm not upset at all--just messing with you.  I'm a huge WD fan. He's a terrific horse and a deserving HOY candidate.  But he's just not in Frankel's league.  You're comparing a really nice horse to an all-time great.  There's a difference.

What is it that makes him an all time great in your eyes? I know he is one hell of a horse, but I cant put him near the all time greats. I would just liked to see him run on the world stage a few times to sell me. He never closed the sale on me.  beer
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 06:54:25 AM by mel4600 » Report to moderator   Logged
Table Gambler
If you mess with the BULL you will get the HORNS!
Full Member
***
Posts: 132




Ignore
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2012, 06:18:33 PM »

when wise dan steps up and carries some weight then we can compare him to frankel
Im sorry, did Frankel run on Synthetic or Dirt and Win and Graded stakes? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, I don't think so.  [d]Did Wise Dan win a GRADE I in Canada? YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS! Did WISE DAN win Graded Stakes on Synthetic and Dirt? YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!  trophy BREEDERS CUP WINNER GI!
Report to moderator   Logged
HarnessFanDE
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3410




Ignore
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2012, 10:26:00 AM »

I agree with Crist that Wise Dan will be horse of the Year but shouldnt beat Little Mike for Older Turf Horse.....Little Mike's turf accomplishments far outweigh Wise Dans......I think he said it would be the first time ever a horse won HOTY but didnt win an individual category.....As for Frankel, I dont get all the hype, we really do live in a "What have you done lately for me World?" If anyone can consider him among the all time greats.....he's a miler who beat nothing past a mile, had an escort in many of his races and only beat a total of like 80 or 85 horses in his 15 races.....hell some of the real all time greats in Europe beat that many in 5 races
Report to moderator   Logged

SHOWTIME!!!
Alpha Mare
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3845

OYE VEY!!!!



« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2012, 10:55:32 AM »

I find it amusing at best that there are all these "Wise Dan" fans all of a sudden...he's a good horse- but imho Goldie at the same age would have inhaled him...and mel hunny - there were other track records set b cup weekend as well....you are one to poo-poo track/ stakes records unless you are on a horse's band wagon- i find that ironic as well.....Wise Dan is like Einstein.....a hard knocker who can run and win on multiple surfaces....but not a super star......
Report to moderator   Logged

Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
Louie Weedelbaum
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 380




Ignore
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2012, 11:22:40 AM »

I find it amusing at best that there are all these "Wise Dan" fans all of a sudden...he's a good horse- but imho Goldie at the same age would have inhaled him...and mel hunny - there were other track records set b cup weekend as well....you are one to poo-poo track/ stakes records unless you are on a horse's band wagon- i find that ironic as well.....Wise Dan is like Einstein.....a hard knocker who can run and win on multiple surfaces....but not a super star......

Comparing horses from different years is impossible, anybody can say any horse would "inhale" another horse on their best day and nobody really knows.

Take a look at Wise Dan's year:

6 starts - 3 Grade 1 wins, one Grade 1 second, 1 Grade 2 win, 1 Grade 3 win on 3 different surfaces and at 5 different racetracks and you call him a hard knocker???  Really??  I'd say that is a tremendous year.  Also how many fans did Goldikova have before she came to America and showed us how good she was?  You were a big fan of Rachel before Assmussen took over training her?  You cheered like crazy for Zenyatta after 3 or 4 starts??  When horses get real good the public notices.

Wise Dan had a great year and is much more than a hard knocker.
Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2307




Ignore
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2012, 11:30:46 AM »

I find it amusing at best that there are all these "Wise Dan" fans all of a sudden...he's a good horse- but imho Goldie at the same age would have inhaled him...and mel hunny - there were other track records set b cup weekend as well....you are one to poo-poo track/ stakes records unless you are on a horse's band wagon- i find that ironic as well.....Wise Dan is like Einstein.....a hard knocker who can run and win on multiple surfaces....but not a super star......

What other turf records were set? Your assumption that he is a hard knocker can only be answered one way...... laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
Report to moderator   Logged
SandyLoam
Guest

« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2012, 12:37:10 PM »

Chuckle at how the humans get so lathered up about these horsey awards. Thank goodness the equines are oblivious. And don't understand why fans get so worked up. The awards are just for one night of showing off at a crowded ballroom banquet and then setting the hierarchy for stud fees. Who cares? They were all entertaining and hopefully you made a few bucks.
Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2307




Ignore
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2012, 05:16:32 PM »

We are not debating awards (at least I'm not), we are debating talent level.
Report to moderator   Logged
Pal B
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 298




Ignore
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2012, 05:42:36 PM »

We are not debating awards (at least I'm not), we are debating talent level.

Hopefully Wise Dan ends up at Kentucky Horse Park when he is done racing. We saw Cigar two years ago there, and he looked incredible. We also went to Lanes End and saw AP Indy who is about the same age, and he looked worn out-but happy!
Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2307




Ignore
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2012, 05:48:38 PM »

Hopefully Wise Dan ends up at Kentucky Horse Park when he is done racing. We saw Cigar two years ago there, and he looked incredible. We also went to Lanes End and saw AP Indy who is about the same age, and he looked worn out-but happy!

Two different life styles!  thumbs up
Report to moderator   Logged
faster horses
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 478




Ignore
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2012, 10:22:44 PM »

Between the two, I'll take A.P. Indy's lifestyle.  There is definitely such a thing as "good tired."  Just sayin'.
Report to moderator   Logged
Alpha Mare
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3845

OYE VEY!!!!



« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2012, 10:33:09 AM »

What other turf records were set? Your assumption that he is a hard knocker can only be answered one way...... laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy


Oh excuse me......tied....Little Mike tied the record for 1 1/2 miles at Santa Anita and set the breeder's cup turf classic STAKES record....
Report to moderator   Logged

Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
Alpha Mare
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3845

OYE VEY!!!!



« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2012, 10:34:43 AM »

Chuckle at how the humans get so lathered up about these horsey awards. Thank goodness the equines are oblivious. And don't understand why fans get so worked up. The awards are just for one night of showing off at a crowded ballroom banquet and then setting the hierarchy for stud fees. Who cares? They were all entertaining and hopefully you made a few bucks.


yep.....you are correct.....but it's such fun to debate with mel......where's otb and steve? lol
Report to moderator   Logged

Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
TheRedMile
Guest

« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2012, 10:41:05 AM »

talk about a horse's talent level
frankel's opening stud fee has been set at $198,500
i have never seen a higher opening fee anywhere
Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2307




Ignore
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2012, 01:35:07 PM »


Oh excuse me......tied....Little Mike tied the record for 1 1/2 miles at Santa Anita and set the breeder's cup turf classic STAKES record....

Tied is one notch down.  Wink

So what you are really saying is that Wis Dan is the only one to set a track record, correct?  Wink
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.104 seconds with 17 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Breeders' Cup
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Breeders' Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy