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Author Topic: Knowing When A Horse Is Live: Bob Pandolfo  (Read 1462 times)
jdizigg
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« on: October 11, 2012, 05:47:48 PM »

Excellent article by Bob Pandolfo, you might already know some of the angles and some you might not.  If you would like to sharpen your skills read here.

http://www.drf.com/news/bob-pandolfo-knowing-when-horse-live
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cecil127
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2012, 05:52:17 PM »

how daaare you post a topic actually relevant to harness racing/handicapping....you do know this BTW dont you poor baby screwy

*seriously though-thanks for posting and keep it up.  someday the shenanigans may cease. head shake
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 06:38:20 PM »

how daaare you post a topic actually relevant to harness racing/handicapping....you do know this BTW dont you poor baby screwy

*seriously though-thanks for posting and keep it up.  someday the shenanigans may cease. head shake

NOT RACING RELATED COMMENT CECIL!!! I am SICK of you rotten scoundrel jokesters!!! This is a racing website! You are making (dumb) jokes- NOT ALLOWED!! Your post is below the required 96.4% Racing Index Quota (a system designed by the BTW joke police to enforce the rules and enjoy nobody ever has fun). If you don't start upping your RIQ you will be downgraded to grandstand goof. Next is Bad Apple. Bad apple= end of the line. Cut out the joking. I'm serious. It hurts my feelings.

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rycommon
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 06:42:15 PM »

an article actually worth reading.
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ray
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 06:46:45 PM »

an article actually worth reading.

 thumbs up thumbs up
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Mr_Ed
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 07:36:58 PM »

an article actually worth reading.

Agree.
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burton
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2012, 09:13:08 PM »

Nice article by a good handicapper and writer.
The part about a big middle half is a very good angle.
Have had success with this at the Meadowlands.
Brennan especially would often have horses move on fast second and third quarters only to tire in the stretch.
Next start would often be a winning one.
Great angle that is often overlooked by the handicapper.
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jdizigg
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2012, 09:15:31 PM »

Nice article by a good handicapper and writer.
The part about a big middle half is a very good angle.
Have had success with this at the Meadowlands.
Brennan especially would often have horses move on fast second and third quarters only to tire in the stretch.
Next start would often be a winning one.
Great angle that is often overlooked by the handicapper.

Thanks Burton  thumbs up
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pigland1
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2012, 09:15:40 PM »

Nice article by a good handicapper and writer.
The part about a big middle half is a very good angle.
Have had success with this at the Meadowlands.
Brennan especially would often have horses move on fast second and third quarters only to tire in the stretch.
Next start would often be a winning one.
Great angle that is often overlooked by the handicapper.
SHUT UP RICK FLARE
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Sea Biscuit
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2012, 09:47:12 PM »

SHUT UP RICK FLARE

That angle went zooming by Pig's head at 1000 mph.
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LWC
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2012, 09:58:28 AM »

Surprised there's no mention of shoeing changes on horses coming back.  Change from flats or flipflops to swedges third start back after a lay off is a big indicator as well.  Heck, I've raced horses just coming back in PG shoes before, lol.  You know they're not going to get much with those things on.
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Sea Biscuit
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2013, 06:49:36 PM »

Iím not a cynic. Owning racehorses is expensive and trainers are under a lot of pressure, so in my mind, most horses are trying to win. Although it may appear that some drivers are trying harder than others, thatís because they have a sharp horse. A horse that is outclassed or out of form is most likely going to save ground and hope to pick up a piece of the purse.

There are things you can look for that tip off a well-meant effort by an improving horse. One of the best signs that a horse is ready for a top effort is a driver change. My favorite is when a trainer drives the horse for the first start or two off a layoff. Then, in the third start off the layoff, the trainer takes himself off and switches to a catch driver. I also like it when a horse comes off a layoff and has a low-percentage driver for a few starts, then switches to one of the top drivers. This type of driver change is an indication that the trainer feels his horse is ready. Trainers know that if they enlist a top catch driver, the driver may use their horse hard. Thatís why some trainers wonít put up a top driver unless they feel their horse is fit enough to fully exert itself.

Many times youíll see a positive driver change when a horse is dropped in class. The trainer knows that he has a good shot and wants to make the most of it. The top drivers often have their choice of a few horses in the race, so if they get on a horse for the first time, they also feel that the horse is in a good spot.

I also like to look for a sudden improvement in form. For instance, say a horse has several races where it just saves ground. Then in its next start, the horse shows sharp early speed and tires. This is a good sign. Harness racing is much more speed favoring than it used to be. Consequently, the first quarters are often very fast. Trainers know that a horse has to be fit to leave the gate. Thatís why sudden improved early speed is a sign that a horse is coming into top form. When a horse is driven more aggressively, itís usually a good sign. Once a horse is training well and appears to be back in form, the trainer is going to tell the driver to get more aggressive. So even if the horse gets a tough trip and tires, the fact that the connections decided to push the horse is a sign that the horse is sharpening.

Another more subtle thing to look for is a key equipment change. I always check the equipment changes when Iím at the track. Sometimes a horse adds a hood, a blind bridle, or blinkers. These types of equipment changes, coupled with a switch to a more aggressive driver, usually mean that the horse is going to leave the gate. You can catch some good longshots with these angles. Now that there are several different sulkies in harness racing, a switch from a driver who uses one of the older models to a driver who recently purchased one of the new off-set bikes can signal a wake up call.

Read more at this DRF link

http://www.drf.com/news/bob-pandolfo-knowing-when-horse-live
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« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2013, 08:34:07 PM »

Bob Pandolfo is the best after the results are in. In every column he had this winner and that winner. I don't know him personally but he pats himself on the back too much for every winner. I would be crippled if I did that after each winner. Act like you have been there before.
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« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2013, 10:16:16 PM »

Very good read!

Actually se thing works for me !
When I change my equipment from a hood to air plugs look out baby game on!
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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2013, 12:39:45 AM »

Excellent article by Bob Pandolfo, you might already know some of the angles and some you might not.  If you would like to sharpen your skills read here.

http://www.drf.com/news/bob-pandolfo-knowing-when-horse-live

Interesting that you posted this article, which is roughly 8 months old.

I remember reading Pandy in Sports Eye as a teenager, cutting school to go to Aqueduct & Roosevelt and always respected him.  Still do.  I am familiar with some of his favorite angles & also know that he is holding back with this article.

There are many sharp handicappers here who are his equal, IMO.

One of the interesting things in this article is what we talked about several months ago: Race bikes.  Pandy shares my opinion that the newer bikes can play a big role, something that you disagreed with.  Just wondering if your opinion is "evolving"...
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jdizigg
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2013, 08:27:54 AM »

Interesting that you posted this article, which is roughly 8 months old.

I remember reading Pandy in Sports Eye as a teenager, cutting school to go to Aqueduct & Roosevelt and always respected him.  Still do.  I am familiar with some of his favorite angles & also know that he is holding back with this article.

There are many sharp handicappers here who are his equal, IMO.

One of the interesting things in this article is what we talked about several months ago: Race bikes.  Pandy shares my opinion that the newer bikes can play a big role, something that you disagreed with.  Just wondering if your opinion is "evolving"...

I posted this back in October I believe, yes I still believe there are 1000 different things you would handicap before a race bike would come into play especially since 95 percent of drivers use the better bikes...
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clubhouse
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« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2013, 08:28:03 AM »

Interesting that you posted this article, which is roughly 8 months old.

I remember reading Pandy in Sports Eye as a teenager, cutting school to go to Aqueduct & Roosevelt and always respected him.  Still do.  I am familiar with some of his favorite angles & also know that he is holding back with this article.

There are many sharp handicappers here who are his equal, IMO.

One of the interesting things in this article is what we talked about several months ago: Race bikes.  Pandy shares my opinion that the newer bikes can play a big role, something that you disagreed with.  Just wondering if your opinion is "evolving"...

Dolfan cutting school to go to The A. I wasn't in to tbreds but I went because my friends liked it. I always got a kick out of everyone cursing Angel Cordero. The guy always won, but was hated.
I got my sports eye to read Jack Rubin's column. bowing
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« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2013, 08:58:28 AM »


...I also like to look for a sudden improvement in form.


The most overlooked piece of data by most handicappers.  ESPECIALLY WHEN THE IMPROVENT DOES NOT RESULT IN A WIN.

The reason?  Because most people tossed the horse, and kept the notion that the horse is a loser without digging deep enough to see the improvement.
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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2013, 10:12:12 AM »


Another more subtle thing to look for is a key equipment change. I always check the equipment changes when Iím at the track.


I actually tracked equipment change for quite a while.  The information was readily available in the Sports Eye.

Conclusion:  ignore it.  Ignore It.  IGNORE IT.  IGNORE IT!!!

If anything, bet AGAINST horses where there is an equipment change (but my personal recommendation is to ignore it).  Exceptions:  Adding two or more inches to the hobbles -- a positive, adding knee spreaders -- a negative, removing knee spreaders -- a positive.

Of course, first time trotting hobbles is frequently a positive change, but you don't need an equipment board to know the change.

Sulky changes are also huge, but unless you are a regular, it is impossible to track.  Knowing what sulky a horse is using is irrelevant unless you know the complete history of sulky usage for the horse.

When you see a new trainer making wholesale changes, ignore the changes, and make your decision based on the success of the new trainer with new horses.

They used to supply more specifics on bit changes, and adding a mini-bit would strongly indicate that the horse would be raced off the pace.
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« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2013, 10:22:43 AM »

Dolfan cutting school to go to The A. I wasn't in to tbreds but I went because my friends liked it. I always got a kick out of everyone cursing Angel Cordero. The guy always won, but was hated.
I got my sports eye to read Jack Rubin's column. bowing


THE RAIL BIRDS CALLED ANGEL THE LITTLE MONKEY  maroon
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Psycho Dad
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« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2013, 12:24:12 PM »

Dolfan cutting school to go to The A. I wasn't in to tbreds but I went because my friends liked it. I always got a kick out of everyone cursing Angel Cordero. The guy always won, but was hated.
I got my sports eye to read Jack Rubin's column. bowing

Yes, he won a lot (great rider) and was much hated.  Why?

Cordero was the best rider in NY when the trifecta arrived, and the only trifecta of the day was the last race.

The most amazing thing would happen in the last race.  The number of times Cordero's horse was left in the gate FAR exceeded the expected norm.

Poor UNLUCKY Angel. sarcasm
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Dolfan
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« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2013, 02:16:38 PM »

I posted this back in October I believe, yes I still believe there are 1000 different things you would handicap before a race bike would come into play especially since 95 percent of drivers use the better bikes...

You left out the word "now".  ...95% of drivers use it NOW!

When the next great sulky breakthrough arrives, it will be once again very useful to know which ONE (or two) are using it.

And there certainly aren't 1000 things to handicap before that newest bike, before everyone has it, IMO.  That was my point.


I actually tracked equipment change for quite a while.  The information was readily available in the Sports Eye.

Conclusion:  ignore it.  Ignore It.  IGNORE IT.  IGNORE IT!!!

If anything, bet AGAINST horses where there is an equipment change (but my personal recommendation is to ignore it).  Exceptions:  Adding two or more inches to the hobbles -- a positive, adding knee spreaders -- a negative, removing knee spreaders -- a positive.

Equipment changes are only offered at a few tracks.  My favorite one is after a horse wins (new lifetime mark) and then they change the equipment, no one is watching & he goes into the sewer at 3-5.

I've owned enough claimers to know that a headpole or murphy blind here or there usually doesn't make any difference on a 9 year old claimer who's had 200+ races.

When adding inches, the sloppy gaited horse is at a greater risk of breaking.


Dolfan cutting school to go to The A. I wasn't in to tbreds but I went because my friends liked it. I always got a kick out of everyone cursing Angel Cordero. The guy always won, but was hated.
I got my sports eye to read Jack Rubin's column. bowing

You would never see Cordero or Velasquez or Jeffrey Fell during the winter.  It was Larry Saumel, Ruben Hernandez, Ruben A. Hernandez, George Martens, Antonio Graell...
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
jack baker
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« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2013, 02:58:03 PM »

Very good read especially the quick 2nd & 3rd quarters then falls back. I remember reading an article saying that he makes more money on horses who lost by double digit lengths and then will come back to win the next time out.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2013, 03:12:43 PM »

Very good read especially the quick 2nd & 3rd quarters then falls back. I remember reading an article saying that he makes more money on horses who lost by double digit lengths and then will come back to win the next time out.

I do too.

When he writes that he finds a 5-2 frontrunner I have to laugh.  laughing guy  Is 5-2 an accomplishment?  As I said, he is holding back.  You can't make money consistently on 5-2.
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
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« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2013, 08:05:23 PM »

Surprised there's no mention of shoeing changes on horses coming back.  Change from flats or flipflops to swedges third start back after a lay off is a big indicator as well.  Heck, I've raced horses just coming back in PG shoes before, lol.  You know they're not going to get much with those things on.
That's inside information, like vet work! Wink
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" when I get got , I get my Glock"
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