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Author Topic: How good could Chris Block be if?  (Read 3582 times)
carl baldwin
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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2012, 01:45:34 AM »

Scav,

I think Giant Oak would have done no worse w/ "shorty" in the saddle than he did w/ S. Bridgmohan.  He ran some real clunkers and Block never made a change.

Sod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1UG6bW6tyg
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Scav
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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2012, 08:12:29 AM »

You mean, the Miguel Mena who is *still* battling alcohol addiction...the guy that missed out on winning out-of-town mounts because of his issues awhile back?

Nice choice. You obviously don't know WTF you are talking about.

Mena was a top 3 Jock here at Arlington this summer, and probably the most hated in the jock room because he was the most aggressive jock out there. I don't remember Mena having ANY issues with booze or drugs, that is your man Torres, who missed a whole week because he went on a bender a picnic
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2012, 08:27:16 AM »

At Arlington I watched this guy continually try to get his horse wide on the polytrack even when he had great position on the rail. And anyone who followed Arlington knows what being 3 or 4 wide on that track will do to your chances of winning.

When horses bunch up the way they do on Polytrack, you can lose by getting jammed up inside just as easy as you can by taking the overland route. Ten horses moving virtually together all the way around the turn for home is a recipe for numerous bad trips...but forget that for a moment.

Do you know for a fact what instructions Perez was given by Block? Is it at all possible that the connections do not want to take a chance getting pinned down inside?

What about the horses: do you know whether Block's horses can handle being inside? More than a few horses being trapped in by the rail.

I agree that saving ground and going inside is the best move most of the time...IF the inside is OK, and IF the horse can handle it. We can make an educated guess about whether the inside paths are any good, but we don't know the horses the way the trainer does.

And if Shorty was continually doing the wrong thing by tipping his horses out and letting them see daylight, Block would have replaced him already.

Sorry, your assumptions about the trainer / jock relationship just don't make any sense. Shorty is doing just fine, and every time Block puts him on another horse, it further weakens the arguments of his naysayers. I've said it a million times: if you want to be successful in this game, find out what the winners do. Chris Block is a WINNER, and he rides Eddie Perez; that should be good enough for reasonable people.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2012, 08:36:55 AM »

I don't remember Mena having ANY issues with booze or drugs, that is your man Torres, who missed a whole week because he went on a bender a picnic

My information about Mena is a little stale. He was having issues back in 2009 but he apparently DID get help (AA) and is supposedly doing OK now. I apologize for insinuating that he was still having issues; I could have done a better job investigating this. Here's a story from 2010 about his recovery process:

http://poststar.com/article_43c834a4-986a-11df-a691-001cc4c03286.html

As far as "my man" Torres missing a week due to a drinking binge, do you have any actual evidence about this? A link to a story or a ruling or something? Or is this just backstretch gossip? I couldn't find anything anywhere on this one.
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« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2012, 11:02:00 AM »

My information about Mena is a little stale. He was having issues back in 2009 but he apparently DID get help (AA) and is supposedly doing OK now. I apologize for insinuating that he was still having issues; I could have done a better job investigating this. Here's a story from 2010 about his recovery process:

http://poststar.com/article_43c834a4-986a-11df-a691-001cc4c03286.html

As far as "my man" Torres missing a week due to a drinking binge, do you have any actual evidence about this? A link to a story or a ruling or something? Or is this just backstretch gossip? I couldn't find anything anywhere on this one.


You think they are gonna write a newspaper about someone that fell of the wagon? Please....
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Table Gambler
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« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2012, 11:43:14 AM »

Keep in mind that Perez makes the weight to. He is honest and is a straight shooter. Is he perfect? No, he is just like any other Jock out there. Block seems to have confidence in Perez and Perez has confidence in Block. He listens and he always tries to save ground when he can to give Blocks stock the best possible trip to succeeded. Don't forget he is working his stock in the mornings to get an advantage of developing a relationship with the horse. We all know there is some talented Jockeys out there, but no Jockey is perfect.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2012, 12:28:53 PM »

You think they are gonna write a newspaper about someone that fell of the wagon? Please....

They wrote stories about other guys -- Mena, Tyler Baze, Kent. D., etc. Why would Torres be entitled to secrecy?

So, you have no proof at all; shame on you. You heard a rumor on the backstretch and you are presenting it here as fact.

At least when I made my comments about Mena, I knew that his troubles had been documented in the newspapers; I just lost track of how long ago it was.
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Table Gambler
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« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2012, 02:14:44 PM »

He is useless, plain and simple. He is entrenched in the barn because of the work his jock agent does.  I can think of 6-7 other guys I would ride before I give Shorty a chance, and I would rather scratch then ride him.

Timmy Thorton
Florent Geroux
Seth Martinez
Francisco Torres
Julio Felix
Quincy Hamilton
ET
Rosemary (eek)

Give me a break! These Jocks are no better than Perez head shake You have made you point that you don't like him.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 02:16:43 PM by Table Gambler » Report to moderator   Logged
Scav
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« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2012, 07:45:13 AM »

They wrote stories about other guys -- Mena, Tyler Baze, Kent. D., etc. Why would Torres be entitled to secrecy?

So, you have no proof at all; shame on you. You heard a rumor on the backstretch and you are presenting it here as fact.

At least when I made my comments about Mena, I knew that his troubles had been documented in the newspapers; I just lost track of how long ago it was.

Do I really have to tell you why those people got stories and some jock in Illinois did not? How about racing coverage in California, NY, and Kentucky being infinitely more then here? How about those jocks have won races like the KY Derby so there is a story line.

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Ill-bred
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« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2012, 09:14:31 AM »

Those of you who think Perez is anything more than an average rider either don't know or have forgotten what a good rider is.

The Blocks have good mares, they breed to KY stallions, and are very good horsemen. Whoever rides for them is going to win a lot of races in Chicago.

That jock colony is a far cry from what it used to be.

Look at the top ten riders at Arlington from 2012 and compare them with the top ten in almost any year of the past few decades. There has been a huge dropoff in rider talent in Chitown.
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jimk
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« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2012, 10:23:51 AM »

I think both EE Perez and Cisco Torres have a good shot today in the Haw. Derby. Torres has a real bad post #12 and may have to use early to get position. I don't know if Granitz has North of Never ready off aprx. 70 day layoff, he is a stone closer if he gets the pace. I think the soft ground is a question for just about all of these. Hoping we don't get rained off.







 
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2012, 11:56:18 AM »

Do I really have to tell you why those people got stories and some jock in Illinois did not? How about racing coverage in California, NY, and Kentucky being infinitely more then here? How about those jocks have won races like the KY Derby so there is a story line.

All baloney. Torres has been written about before. His prior problems are well-known and documented in the racing press. If your rumor were true, I believe Marcus H. would have heard about it and reported it.

I believe you are enamored with backstretch gossip, with a full 95% or better of that being pure BS. You have nothing.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2012, 12:06:16 PM »

Look at the top ten riders at Arlington from 2012 and compare them with the top ten in almost any year of the past few decades. There has been a huge dropoff in rider talent in Chitown.

This would be a specious comparison, at best: Jerry Bailey, Mike Smith and Garrett Gomez used to ride regularly in Illinois at one time -- when they were on their way up. One could argue that when each of these fellows started riding here, they were just "average".

You can't make accurate point-in-time comparisons between racing colonies, because when riders improve and hone their craft, they leave Illinois (most recently, Junior Alvarado)...and when they need a fresh start (i.e., a class drop), they come back to Illinois (Torres, Rosemary Homeister Jr.).

Straight up "name" comparisons between the past and now simply don't tell the tale.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2012, 07:52:27 PM »

I know I read somewhere in this thread someone critizing EP for sitting too long in some races. Check out Leading Astray in 2nd division of Valley View today at KEE. Galloped out in front, FWIW.
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« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2012, 07:11:08 AM »

I know I read somewhere in this thread someone critizing EP for sitting too long in some races. Check out Leading Astray in 2nd division of Valley View today at KEE. Galloped out in front, FWIW.

Didn't matter, IMO: Miz Ida was coming in from Kentucky Downs with an eye-popping effort there, and she was best on TG by several points. She could have bounced a few points from that effort and still won this.

Both the 2nd place horse and the Block horse "outran their numbers", at least as compared to the disappointing (and wildly overbet) Pianist, who finished 4th.
 
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Scav
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« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2012, 05:48:32 PM »

How good is Bombazinga? Really think he has some graded stakes in his future, maybe even this year (Doesn't Churchill have one)

Guess same goes for I O Ireland (by the mare that hooked me on racing Ioya Two). She ran great today also.
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Table Gambler
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« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2012, 03:59:57 PM »

I know I read somewhere in this thread someone critizing EP for sitting too long in some races. Check out Leading Astray in 2nd division of Valley View today at KEE. Galloped out in front, FWIW.
Did not handle the far turn at all. Course listed as firm, but was soft that day. She was the only one that closed and is begging for more ground. Bright future for a talented filly who is a half and a full to multiple stake winning colts and Graded stakes winners.
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carl baldwin
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« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2012, 02:23:42 PM »

Nice second place finish. http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/CD111712USA9.pdf
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PastPerformances
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« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2012, 05:35:41 PM »

he didn't ride Eddie Perez first call? I mean really, he is horrendous....These guys are far from perfect, but Shorty doesn't adapt at all during a race and always seems to be leaving horses with too much to do.

Its easy to ride the cinchs but Block could be 30%-35% without Perez in that barn, imo.

I thought the same thing when you posted the thread....Eddie Perez would have trouble being leading rider at Thistledowns
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DaPaver
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« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2012, 09:40:18 PM »

You can't  really think they could have beat odds on/ Leperoux with the Illinois bred?  Do some handicapping , to hit the board was the goal.
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glf01
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« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2012, 01:00:59 PM »

Eddie Razo could ride circles around Eddie perez anytime unfortunate Eddie Razo can't be here do defend him even with one hand which was hurt in Florida his left one even one handed he could still could send Mr. Perez back to Jockey school. Even Chris Block"s wife said it  at Eusebio's memorial Eddie Razo put Chris Block on The map !! I was standing right there when she said it took alot of guts on her part to say that but how true it was and Eusebio recommended Eddie perez to Chris Block about Eddie Perez (shorty) that took alot of class on Eusebio's part. Thank You Linda and Chris Block
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Table Gambler
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« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2012, 01:59:07 PM »

You can't  really think they could have beat odds on/ Leperoux with the Illinois bred?  Do some handicapping , to hit the board was the goal.
Look at her Trip on the head on view. Bumpedtwice going by the first time into the first turn. Saved ground all the way around while Leperoux was in the Cat bird seat licking his Chops to pounce on the leader and down the stretch Leading Astray was bumped again that Knocked her off stride and finshed second best. Was she going to beat the odds on favorite? Who knows? I will tell you this, had she had a clean trip she would of gave the winner a run for her money.I don't think any trainer or owners goal is to hit the board? They are in it to win it and by Handicapping Leading Astray deserved to be in it.
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Table Gambler
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« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2012, 02:02:08 PM »

I thought the same thing when you posted the thread....Eddie Perez would have trouble being leading rider at Thistledowns
Your 100%correct since he doesnt even ride there. I don't think he would stoop that low to ride at a track like that? He gave Leading Astray a masterful ride in the Ms Revere. If it wasnt for a couple horses bumping her she would have made the winner really work to win the race.
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« Reply #48 on: December 05, 2012, 06:45:25 PM »

First off, Block doesn't use him all the time, and secondly, he probably keeps the prices a bit higher than they should be.  If Block ran in NY, he'd be about 2/5 in every race in which he had a legitimate chance... the guy's amazing.
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« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2012, 06:03:40 PM »

... and further along these lines, I would suggest that anyone who doubts Perez' ability check out the replay of the 6th at Hawthorne, won by Block's Here Music, second-off the switch from Neil Pessin's barn, and a generous 6-1.
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