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Author Topic: How good could Chris Block be if?  (Read 3629 times)
Scav
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« on: October 09, 2012, 01:32:12 PM »

he didn't ride Eddie Perez first call? I mean really, he is horrendous....These guys are far from perfect, but Shorty doesn't adapt at all during a race and always seems to be leaving horses with too much to do.

Its easy to ride the cinchs but Block could be 30%-35% without Perez in that barn, imo.
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Ill-bred
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 01:50:22 PM »

Your assessment is pretty right on.

Perez doesn't seem to care about tactical position, often keeps his mount restrained for too long, finds traffic trouble, gives his mount too much to do, etc...he finishes second with the best horse all the time.
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 02:35:38 PM »

Its easy to ride the cinchs but Block could be 30%-35% without Perez in that barn, imo.

You're entitled to your "opinion", I guess...but the math doesn't support it.

Block uses Cisco Torres when he can get him (who wouldn't?), but even The Great Torres is only 2 for 9 riding for Block the last 60 days. That's 22% with the best rider in Chicago...a far cry from your theoretical 30 - 35%, and if he can't get those lofty numbers with Cisco, then who? Nick Meza?  Roll Eyes

Shorty is riding 19% winners and is 61% ITM for Block in the last 60 days, and I'm quite sure he is ALWAYS available when Chris wants him. Block knows that Shorty is an honest, hard-trying and capable rider and uses him frequently, so there is some 2-way loyalty there, which is nice to see.

It is not a coincidence that Block is a leading trainer in Chicago racing year after year. He runs a top-notch operation, so when he starts consulting you about jockey selections, please let us know; then I'll be impressed.

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DaPaver
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 02:41:55 PM »

How about a little Loyalty guy's!  Block and Perez do just fine here in Illinois. When outside of Illinois Block uses a main rider for the track he is running at . How many times have you seen Block use Graham in Illinois, Perez rides all three meets here, so for the most part Block rides him in Illinois.
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alydar66
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 02:49:38 PM »

Agree 100%.  He rides the Block horses like hes on Secretariat and the trip doesn't matter. At Arlington its very difficult to win on the poly and turf if your wide and trying to close. Perez would settle at the back of the pack and try to make some power move 4-5 wide on the turn and get up for 2nd, being easily the best horse in the race. If he was on the rail (where you needed to be on that track) it was only because he was locked in and couldn't get out.
   But don't look for Block to make any changes. Hes very loyal to his jocks. Marquez and Razo cost Block a ton of races too but he continued to stay with them also. And after seeing how happy Block was with Perez after he won the Pucker Up with Leading Astray, I think we'll be seeing Eddie for a while.
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NYRA 792
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 03:48:32 PM »

These are for running style "S"  sustained and "R"   rear horses from the usual F-E-P-S-R  running style indicators
Perez apparently doesn't that poorly on closers
small sample size of almost 4 months with some other well-known riders thrown in

Perez                     00076  00010    13% 39% 53%    
Dominguez              00159  00025    16% 39% 55%        
Hoemeister              00148  00015    10% 24% 39%      
JVelazquez              00058  00009    16% 33% 41%    
Bejarano                 00102  00025    25% 37% 52%    
Graham                   00175  00018    10% 30% 43%    
Torres                    00179  00022    12% 23% 39%  
Napravnik                00121  00008    07% 18% 34%    
Gomez                     00131  00019    15% 34% 55%    
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mottoman
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 05:14:25 PM »

No way changing shorty is going to make block a 30 to 35% trainer in Chicago.  Just no way, as the local jock colony at the top is roughly the same. 
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JoeMama
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 05:19:23 PM »

Hmmm, I always liked Eddie Perez. He seemed hungry and tried hard. I haven't really followed racing much over the last few, years but I will watch him more closely. As far as stating that he restrains and waits too long.... I rarely see riders of today exhibit much in the way of patience. If he were really messing up, I gotta think Block would make a switch regardless of how loyal he is. This is a money game. He might be following trainer insturctions. However, I will check out his recent riding style as far as tactics.
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sodgod
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 07:08:41 PM »

Scav,

I think Giant Oak would have done no worse w/ "shorty" in the saddle than he did w/ S. Bridgmohan.  He ran some real clunkers and Block never made a change.

Sod
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2012, 08:57:17 PM »

I hate to agree on HV on anything, but I have to go along with him on trusting Chris Block to put the right jock(s) on his various horses. He knows what he's doing.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Scav
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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2012, 08:02:46 PM »

I hate to agree on HV on anything, but I have to go along with him on trusting Chris Block to put the right jock(s) on his various horses. He knows what he's doing.

He is useless, plain and simple. He is entrenched in the barn because of the work his jock agent does.  I can think of 6-7 other guys I would ride before I give Shorty a chance, and I would rather scratch then ride him.

Timmy Thorton
Florent Geroux
Seth Martinez
Francisco Torres
Julio Felix
Quincy Hamilton
ET
Rosemary (eek)
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Ghostjones
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2012, 10:15:46 PM »

He is useless, plain and simple. He is entrenched in the barn because of the work his jock agent does.  I can think of 6-7 other guys I would ride before I give Shorty a chance, and I would rather scratch then ride him.

Timmy Thorton
Florent Geroux
Seth Martinez
Francisco Torres
Julio Felix
Quincy Hamilton
ET
Rosemary (eek)


No love for Jimmy? My only WC photo with you and him...come on man.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2012, 11:50:28 PM »

He is useless, plain and simple. He is entrenched in the barn because of the work his jock agent does. 

I can't believe that Chris' owners including his dad would put up with horses losing that should have won simply for the sake of the work of a jock's agent in the barn.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
APCD Dan
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« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2012, 11:58:36 PM »

I can't believe that Chris' owners including his dad would put up with horses losing that should have won simply for the sake of the work of a jock's agent in the barn.

No Neck is a good Chicago jock and runs well for Block.  He is especially good at distance races.  He would not be first call for Block if this were not true.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2012, 01:32:15 AM »

He is useless, plain and simple. He is entrenched in the barn because of the work his jock agent does. 

Why don't you tell this right to Chris Block's face, if you are such an expert on jockeys?

Block was only the leading money trainer at Arlington this year, beating out Cat, Stidham and Brueggemann; I guess those guys can't figure out the correct jockeys to use, either.

 screwy

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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2012, 09:07:51 AM »

He is useless, plain and simple. He is entrenched in the barn because of the work his jock agent does.  I can think of 6-7 other guys I would ride before I give Shorty a chance, and I would rather scratch then ride him.

Timmy Thorton
Florent Geroux
Seth Martinez
Francisco Torres
Julio Felix
Quincy Hamilton
ET
Rosemary (eek)


Quincy Hamilton  PUHLEASE  only place he can win as it lone star or sam houston
ET BAIRD  not sure what happened to speed riding ET but haven't seen him much in the winners circle..

some of the other you mention are OK but other then Cisco all about equal.

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Scav
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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2012, 09:11:05 AM »

No love for Jimmy? My only WC photo with you and him...come on man.

I was speaking in terms of Hawthorne.

You can add...
Graham
Mena

to the list for Arlington.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2012, 09:36:46 AM »

I was speaking in terms of Hawthorne.

You can add...
Graham
Mena

to the list for Arlington.

You mean, the Miguel Mena who is *still* battling alcohol addiction...the guy that missed out on winning out-of-town mounts because of his issues awhile back?

Nice choice. You obviously don't know WTF you are talking about.
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2012, 10:09:05 AM »

Mena rode nice at Arlington- I am sure lots of the jocks have demons..

Graham is good but should probably be better----I mean no Junior, No Jozbin....wasn't Graham about 3-5 to win riding title at Arlington...
Not saying James is overrated but probably should have won more at AP-  he gets hot & you have to go with him those days.

I think Eddie is one of the few that can actually rate a horse.  Most of Block's horses are late runners & think thats how he wants them ridden.
& you never have to worry about weight Smiley

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Chris Szulc
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« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2012, 11:39:58 AM »



I think Eddie is one of the few that can actually rate a horse.  Most of Block's horses are late runners & think thats how he wants them ridden.


This is the key. It seems Block trains em from the beginning (unless he has a ridiculous speedball, like Shrewd Operator) to be late runners, and thats why roughly 90% of his horses are like that. That is why Eddie is such a good fit because in my opinion, and I have thought this for a year now, Shorty is one of the best riders from behind. He is strong in the finish and usually times em well. I mean come on, no one can say there is a better rider to fit Suntracer and Leading Astray than him? Do I think he's just as good on frontrunners? no... His strength is from the back. Does he mess up rides at times? of course...but rider DOESN'T??
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2012, 12:20:41 PM »

Mena rode nice at Arlington- I am sure lots of the jocks have demons..

Of course they do, and my life was almost ruined by drink and drugs as well. I don't begrudge Mena or any other jock their recovery efforts. Please God bless and keep all who are troubled and are seeking help, with the intent of changing their destructive behavior.

But that wasn't the point at all. For straight up comparison purposes, IMO most owners and trainers would select Shorty over Mena, if measured by performance and (recent) character issues. Mena still has to re-earn trust, One Day At A Time; Shorty has no such burden.

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« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2012, 12:59:34 PM »

Some of this talk is completely amature hour!  Come on, This jock is good at distance races,  this jock is only good on sprinters.  Shorty rides first call for Block who is a patient trainer who generally doesn't really train his horses for speed, and that is why shorty comes from behind on many horses.  He follows trainer instructions. Therefore he keeps his job riding first call for the top local trainer.  Whats next this rider is good on Tuesday and Wednesdays or this rider is terrific on long grass courses! 

Those top 6 riders mentioned earlier are all local veteran riders, if you switched one of those riders with all shorty's mounts the percentage would be roughly the same maybe 1 or 2% up or down on a particular rider.  Which one is up and down is strictly guess work that I or no one else can prove.  It's about the Horse and the other horses in each race and many many other factors.
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« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2012, 01:42:14 PM »

some good points in this thread. while ive never been a fan of "shorty's" whatsoever he wins plenty on block runners and has for a long time. his agent is a big reason as mentioned tho why hes in that barn. of the other jocks mentioned id definately take mena over him. of the jocks currently here cisco is a obv choice(over anyone)! id also prefer seth anyday of the week as well over shorty. despite him being a little heavy as i said on here in his previous go around in chicago hes a absolute beast! emigh hasnt put up the numbers he used to but he still rides a much more intelligent race imo, ocampo is better as well but hes only in chicago usually for the fall. hamilton does not belong in this convo lol.


some "under the radar" jocks here who i like solely on closers are brandon meier(poor guy got the injury bug that his dad had), uriel lopez despite his rough fall meet here last year and seems to win most of his races at fairmount these days(doesnt have a agent here most of the time i believe) and angel stanley(currently killin it at mt pleasant) when hes in town. of course we all know the best come from out of the clouds rider in recent times in chicago was the guid
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2012, 06:52:44 PM »

Would someone please go to Chris Block and get Shorty kicked off all of Block's horses PLEASE.

The damn guy only won the last race today by 4 widening lengths; why, if a *decent* rider was up, the horse would have won by 40 lengths, I tells ya! Maybe even a hunnert!

 Roll Eyes
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alydar66
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« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2012, 08:26:59 PM »

Block has an awful lot of above average horses. Perez is winning a lot of races for him. He's winning with superior horses but he also got more than a few superior horses beat by the tough trips he gives these horse. At Arlington I watched this guy continually try to get his horse wide on the polytrack even when he had great position on the rail. And anyone who followed Arlington knows what being 3 or 4 wide on that track will do to your chances of winning. Its the only time I seriously thought about going down and asking a jock if he understood what being wide on that track is doing to his chances of winning. Razo was terrible at times for Block but he stuck with him.
    Perez is a capable rider and has a high percentage for Block but I do believe if a better jock was on all of Blocks horses at Arlington Block would have finished with a higher win percentage. I'm not sure who that jock would be, maybe Graham or Torres. Those guys always seemed to find the rail no matter where they were in the gate. Perez should have won with more of those superior Block runners than than he did.
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