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Author Topic: When will the excessive whipping stop?  (Read 1866 times)
Grandstand Goof
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« on: October 05, 2012, 06:06:21 PM »

Every week I read basically the same drivers getting fined for excessive whipping. This week it's a $100 then $200. I think if the judges just gave driving days you will see it slow down a bit. Money is not doing it. But take away drives and you'll see some progress. How about 10 driving days for excessive whipping?

How many violations do you have to acquire before somethings done?

Basically a fine is just a slap on the wrist for a driver making thousands a week. Unless you hit them real deep in the pockets..
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Rock Chick
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2012, 06:43:41 PM »

I was on here last week complaining about the same thing  It's never going to change. Why would taking drive's away do anything? There are a lot of driver's -trainer's who have been booted out of tracks for juicing but they always let them come back.....seems like no.matter what they do they get away with it......doesn't matter what you do to them!!
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2012, 06:46:01 PM »

I was on here last week complaining about the same thing  It's never going to change. Why would taking drive's away do anything? There are a lot of driver's -trainer's who have been booted out of tracks for juicing but they always let them come back.....seems like no.matter what they do they get away with it......doesn't matter what you do to them!!

Should be 3 days, one week, 30 days, one year, banned for life on the whipping.

That is 5 strikes.   If a guy can't learn after that we dont need him.
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2012, 06:53:51 PM »

I absolutely hate whips only a fricking andrathol uses them !

Why is it in Europe they don't drive with whips?
They have thousand in the stand
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Rock Chick
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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2012, 07:29:11 PM »

Good question Fuzzy!!
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Yimmy
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« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2012, 09:06:53 PM »

Q.  What do you call a French turf rider who's too handy with the whip?

A.  The Marquis de Sod.

 Undecided Undecided Undecided Undecided   That was horrid, I admit it. 
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2012, 09:16:42 PM »

Not trying to start a fight, but everyone came down on Casey Leonard last week for not going to the whip & getting caught at the wire...

I am not in favor of excessive whipping but you do want the driver to get the best out of the horse.


Watch Smolin in race 6 at Maywood-  some people would probably call that excessive whipping....Some people would say great job Bobby

Tough call
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« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2012, 09:19:12 PM »

Not trying to start a fight, but everyone came down on Casey Leonard last week for not going to the whip & getting caught at the wire...

I am not in favor of excessive whipping but you do want the driver to get the best out of the horse.


Watch Smolin in race 6 at Maywood-  some people would probably call that excessive whipping....Some people would say great job Bobby

Tough call

Didnt see the race tonight at maywood.
But there is whipping and then there is WHIPPING.
When one is going forward and a guy is urging some I say OK.
When one is going backwards and one is being beat like a pinata at a 13 year old mexican birthday party we got PROBLEMS!!!
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2012, 09:23:08 PM »

Didnt see the race tonight at maywood.
But there is whipping and then there is WHIPPING.
When one is going forward and a guy is urging some I say OK.
When one is going backwards and one is being beat like a pinata at a 13 year old mexican birthday party we got PROBLEMS!!!

Totally agree JJ.......

When the horse is done no need to abuse the animal....

I would like to hear your opinion on Smolin tonight race 6----that seemed like some major strikes..
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2012, 09:31:11 PM »

Not trying to start a fight, but everyone came down on Casey Leonard last week for not going to the whip & getting caught at the wire...

I am not in favor of excessive whipping but you do want the driver to get the best out of the horse.


Watch Smolin in race 6 at Maywood-  some people would probably call that excessive whipping....Some people would say great job Bobby

Tough call

How much is his drive fee?


I know a driver out here who hates using them and when some one gave him shit about it he told them this "I dont need twenty damn dollars that bad" I love the man despite the crap people say.
If it takes a whip to get the best out of a horse than the trainer the driver aint worth  goat chit!

One other thing I would like to praise some one out here.

We have a member of our California Horse Racing Board who hates whips and is a champion for horses. That person is no none sense when it comes to whips.
I think you all know who the hell she is and its really to bad the rest of the States and Racing boards dont have a champion like her.
Very high profile personality and just a damn nice lady.
Now if you had some like that in your State and racing board wouldnt take very damn many emails for some chickn chit no talent hoaning pos to find his azz in her cross hairs.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 09:39:38 PM by fuzzypants » Report to moderator   Logged

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ThePaceMaker
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« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2012, 09:50:05 PM »

Hate to semi de-rail, but, do you think whipping rules are crucial to harness racing popularity? I personally don't, and I love animals n hate the slightest bit of abuse (even leaving a dog out on a hot day for too long, animal shit pisses me off big time) but don't see it as something that chases too many fans away.. Still think whipping needs stiffer penalties.

Ok just had a *** genius moment, didn't wanna delete previous question because I'm curious to hear answer

BUT I have a solution!

Take chronic abusers and give them a taste of their own *** medicine! If guilty, SMACK! Failure to take the required lashing= significant days, like 6 months.. One lashing per each violation accrued in previous yr.. I think some of these guys would think more in depth after being on the receiving end of a whip
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IRA
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« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2012, 10:18:35 PM »

         do you want the driver to sit there so you can say he stiffed, or do you want him to drive to the wire. do you not know these guy are hitting the shaft and popping the saddle pad . you guys dont know what you want head shake
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« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2012, 10:28:16 PM »

"harness racing popularity"

You've had some good lines tonight, TPM.  But that's the best one of all.   
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2012, 10:42:02 PM »

        do you want the driver to sit there so you can say he stiffed, or do you want him to drive to the wire. do you not know these guy are hitting the shaft and popping the saddle pad . you guys dont know what you want head shake

Well I R A maybe you guys dont know!
But this WOMEN does know what she wants and what she doesnt want. Now at 61 years of age if I dont know what I want Im not worth the charmin to wipe your kooter.
You damn right I know the damn difference. As any responsible owner would and I dont give a ratz azz if its a two claimer of open horse its bull chit. I dont hire people to ABUSE my horse I hire them to train or drive. If they cant doit fine Ill fine some one else because honestly their arent very few reinsmen left in this buisness and looks like to me that is just what the hell the Europeans have all over us.
As far as trainers thats a bunch of bull two with out a chemistry set they are allmost all goat ropers. You know and I know it and thats in every damn breed. The owners arent much better most of them should take up catfish farms they got their damn heads burried so far in the mud id take ol faithful to blow their azz out.


By the way when my horse comes back cut open do you think that common peace of chit was hitten the saddle pad or the rails and the whip broke and cut the horse.  well I dont give a chit how it happens at that point I dont give a chit if the driver or trainer tries to tell me god in heaven came down and threw a lighten bolt on his azz and thats why we are getting are picture taken I dont care the picture aint worth it to me yes I know what the hell I want.

NO MORE UNGODLY DAMN WHIPS
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 11:08:32 PM by fuzzypants » Report to moderator   Logged

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IRA
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« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2012, 11:59:45 PM »

  well , I  understand and when my horses came back with cuts and welts i was pissed. but I want my horses urged to the wire. NOT CUT OPEN OR ABUSED !!  you have every right to feel the way you do.like you said others dont care. people will use ANYTHING on a horse to win ,and thats sad.  fuzzy , you know what drivers to use. thumbs up
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Rock Chick
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« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2012, 09:55:59 AM »

WELL SAID FUZZY!! I saw the 6th race at Maywood-  Watch it and tell me if Smolin is hitting the sulky or saddle pad- it just grinds my ass to see!!!!!
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danny patch
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2012, 11:46:20 AM »

Back in the day you could rap a rawhide whip around a wooden shaft to make a firecracker like sound,without hurting the horse one bit.I believe it's one thing to scare them but totally unexceptable to hurt them!
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IRA
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« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2012, 11:52:39 AM »

      HE IS HITTING THE SHAFT AND YELLING!!    TRYING TO WIN!!    WTF!!     THIS IS A WASTE OF MY TIME . GO BET HITEMAN !  I GIVE UP! bang head bang head bang head bang head bang head bang head bang head bang head
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IRA
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« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2012, 11:59:41 AM »

   JUST WATCHED AGAIN , HE IS HITTING THE SHAFT AND WHEEL DISK -----NOT THE HORSE!!!! head shake
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Rock Chick
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« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2012, 12:08:18 PM »

Whatever IRA your going to say that!! He is whipping the horse short one's tho not like his usual uncontrollable whipping!!!
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newjackcity
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« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2012, 12:09:59 PM »

and I only thought reading was a skill, looks as if watching a video closely escapes those who have already predetermined what they will be watching...Of course, I ASS UMED THEY WATCHED.  head shake head shake head shake head shake NOT.
Does not often happen but I agree with the tribesman, Ira.  thumbs up thumbs up
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Rock Chick
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« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2012, 12:24:03 PM »

Oh ok - I can see thank you.
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newjackcity
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« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2012, 12:27:13 PM »

Oh ok - I can see thank you.
  If you are so damn confident in your visual observations...Post the video and let others decide. I will go with the majority on it..Will you ?
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Rock Chick
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« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2012, 12:42:18 PM »

Ok I will! Why are people on here saying the same thing then- because u are right and we are all wrong??? If you are so confident in what you see then why do other's see it differently?
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newjackcity
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« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2012, 12:45:38 PM »

Ok I will! Why are people on here saying the same thing then- because u are right and we are all wrong??? If you are so confident in what you see then why do other's see it differently?
People have preconcieved notions...Did you know that witness IDs of crimes/perpetrator per studies are woefully inaccurate ?
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Rock Chick
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« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2012, 12:54:32 PM »

I don't think so- thats why people get caught. It was race 8 I was talking about not 6. He was ok in race 6 which is unusal for him. Here is race 8 the violet. You decide at the end of the race. http://replays.robertsstream.com/racereplays/playf_llnw.php?customer=Maywood&t=1349545584&h=9d059436d5cb8879593eb80724bc0896&url=201210052248MAN8
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Rock Chick
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« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2012, 01:00:58 PM »

Purple Lavern is the one that said it was race 6... not me.
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danny patch
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« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2012, 01:27:23 PM »

Pictures worth a thouasand words......exactly why drivers need a whip,one reason is to win the race the other is to make  them pay attention when they have a headpole dangling from there race halter,horse looked a little stupid in the winners circle?
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PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2012, 01:51:59 PM »

Purple Lavern is the one that said it was race 6... not me.

I was talking about race 6

Watch both races then comment..

Again, I was bringing to attention that everyone was on Casey Leonard for not whipping so hard to have it both ways.

I totally respect harness seer Ira but you can't tell me Bob wasnt striking the horse in race 6
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IRA
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« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2012, 02:38:50 PM »

NOW THE STEAM IS COMING OUT OF MY EARS . HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE WHAT HAPPENED??? IN RACE 8, THE HEAD POLE COMES OFF IN THE FIRST TURN. THE HORSES IS TURNING ITS HEAD AND PACING GOOFY THE WHOLE MILE. BOBBY KNOWS THE HORSES POLE IS HANGING. HE IS TRYING TO KEEP THE HORSE STRAIGHT WHILE FIGHTING OFF DEAN MAGEE. WITH THE HORSES ALMOST OUT OF CONTROL .HE KEEPS TAPING THE HORSE DOWN THE STRETCH TO MAKE IT PACE STRAIGHT. SOMEHOW HE HOLDS OFF OOSTING.  A GREAT EFFORT BY HORSES AND DRIVER. AS A FORMER DRIVER I CAN TELL YOU THAT WHEN THAT BURR CAME OFF ON THE HALF MILE TRACK ITS A BIG DEAL.  BUT YOU COME ON HERE AND KNOCK THE GUY.   ITS TRUE WHAT EVERYBODY TELLS ME, THAT PEOPLE ON HERE DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT RACING.  A TOTAL WASTE OF MY TIME . IM DONE COMING ON HERE . MY ALL YOUR BETS BE WINNING ONES ------GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!        GOODBY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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danny patch
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« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2012, 02:54:45 PM »

NOW THE STEAM IS COMING OUT OF MY EARS . HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE WHAT HAPPENED??? IN RACE 8, THE HEAD POLE COMES OFF IN THE FIRST TURN. THE HORSES IS TURNING ITS HEAD AND PACING GOOFY THE WHOLE MILE. BOBBY KNOWS THE HORSES POLE IS HANGING. HE IS TRYING TO KEEP THE HORSE STRAIGHT WHILE FIGHTING OFF DEAN MAGEE. WITH THE HORSES ALMOST OUT OF CONTROL .HE KEEPS TAPING THE HORSE DOWN THE STRETCH TO MAKE IT PACE STRAIGHT. SOMEHOW HE HOLDS OFF OOSTING.  A GREAT EFFORT BY HORSES AND DRIVER. AS A FORMER DRIVER I CAN TELL YOU THAT WHEN THAT BURR CAME OFF ON THE HALF MILE TRACK ITS A BIG DEAL.  BUT YOU COME ON HERE AND KNOCK THE GUY.   ITS TRUE WHAT EVERYBODY TELLS ME, THAT PEOPLE ON HERE DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT RACING.  A TOTAL WASTE OF MY TIME . IM DONE COMING ON HERE . MY ALL YOUR BETS BE WINNING ONES ------GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!        GOODBY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If your as good as your last race,your leaving as a winner.Your post is spot on  trophy
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Rock Chick
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« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2012, 03:50:39 PM »

This is why I DON'T EVER mention names on here! I get slammed for not naming name's and I get slammed if I do- I understand where Ira is defending but I'm sorry Smolin is whip crazy like Roberts and Sutton- and thats why they are not the leading drivers!!!! Let's just WHIP away so we can push a horse to no end and let's keep whippin them when their all out!!! This make's me blow smoke!! Well I can tell that patch is a whipper and this is exactly why we need to try to get rid of the WHIPS! Sorry for speaking my mind here- everyone else does why can't I ? head shake
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« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2012, 04:49:11 PM »

You named me in your posts I am chosen to drive horses like I do yes I'm aggressive I do as the trainer or owner asks .. Fine them not me.. I don't drive cadillacs and when I do I barely use the whip I respect your opinion and never did get to say sorry for the loss of your father. And sorry that my driving upsets you but the pressure I'm under I have mouths to feed bills to pay and if I don't drive how they ask or do good I lose my job which means no money starving children and another Illinois person on welfare sometimes it's not
Pretty the way I drive especially on lost one if you don't use extreme
Whipping and urging he will not try .. well I've said all I can and can careless who blasts me or try's to change around my words. Have a great day posters
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Steve G
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« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2012, 05:59:49 PM »

i watched the video of race 8, and no matter if the headpole fell off or not, i wouldnt consider that over whipping. i know i have seen far worse for sure.
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Ruffie Guru
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« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2012, 07:44:10 PM »

You're making too much sense , stop or it will confuse them



Not trying to start a fight, but everyone came down on Casey Leonard last week for not going to the whip & getting caught at the wire...

I am not in favor of excessive whipping but you do want the driver to get the best out of the horse.


Watch Smolin in race 6 at Maywood-  some people would probably call that excessive whipping....Some people would say great job Bobby

Tough call

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fuzzypants
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« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2012, 02:31:16 AM »

You named me in your posts I am chosen to drive horses like I do yes I'm aggressive I do as the trainer or owner asks .. Fine them not me.. I don't drive cadillacs and when I do I barely use the whip I respect your opinion and never did get to say sorry for the loss of your father. And sorry that my driving upsets you but the pressure I'm under I have mouths to feed bills to pay and if I don't drive how they ask or do good I lose my job which means no money starving children and another Illinois person on welfare sometimes it's not
Pretty the way I drive especially on lost one if you don't use extreme
Whipping and urging he will not try .. well I've said all I can and can careless who blasts me or try's to change around my words. Have a great day posters

i understand about mouths to feed and that position but if you are not driving Cadillacs what does that say about you as a driver?

Your not that good to drive a Cadillac?

So you only drive for goat ropers that are impersonating trainers?
The owners who only want a butcher setting the horse up for slaughter.
I'm happy you are able to feed your family and not on the Illinois Welfare program this year because of your willingness to follow the orders of folks that are not looking at your future long term.

Or maybe  they have a college fund set aside for your children long term when this industry folds up like a piece of paper and excellent retirement benefits for you ?

Because what your trainers and  owners are requiring of you is no different than the  new magical hall of fame trainers with their frog snarp and cancer medications they use to destroy horses that are  our industry.

WE cant bring fans out when we are not producing a good and valuable product.

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« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2012, 07:11:33 AM »

fuzzy ,

you are way out of line and way off base on this one

Bobby drives for Robert Phillips (leading trainer last year at Balmoral) and has driven for John Barnard , both of whom have Al's Hammered and St Elmo Hero respectively so before you go belittling someone publicly that actually makes a living driving you better check your facts first , just sayin'
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danny patch
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« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2012, 10:14:59 AM »

i watched the video of race 8, and no matter if the headpole fell off or not, i wouldnt consider that over whipping. i know i have seen far worse for sure.
no matter if the headpole fell off or not..........are you flippin goofy or what?I know you have never driven but you should experience what it like to have a horse on the front end with a pole swinging in the wind to spook your horse.Just watch the replay all the way thru, watch the response of the horse when the guy that removed the headpole in the winners circle lifts the pole to the horses nose.......the horse lunges at him,what if this happened at the top of the stretch......no i'll answer my own question,you all would say the driver deserves it for the abusive whipping.I'm not commenting on any other race than r8 that is posted.As far as me being a "WHIPPER" maybe I am,because in my eye all that guy was dong was some wrist action pattywacking to keep his horse in line.
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2012, 10:17:19 AM »

fuzzy ,

you are way out of line and way off base on this one

Bobby drives for Robert Phillips (leading trainer last year at Balmoral) and has driven for John Barnard , both of whom have Al's Hammered and St Elmo Hero respectively so before you go belittling someone publicly that actually makes a living driving you better check your facts first , just sayin'

Maybe so guru but was it his post I was responding too?

How is that be littleing?

His post said fine owners and trainers!
My post gave my opinion of we're they industry is headed with that attitude?
So because people are leading trainers and drivers and ask there drive to carve out a horse to win that doesn't hurt the industry?
It does guru it does !
People don't want to see it any more they think it's cruel and it is and it's there perception that matters! It's us showing the world we show nothing for the animals well being!
My point as harsh as it may seem is we are not doing enough to change the course of the sinking ship headed for a iceberg in this business!
No secret Guru I hate them damn whips!
I look at grandstand filled to the tenth power that's the first thing I see filled grandstand what's the second thing I don't see? WHIPs!
So my eyes are lien to me?
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J. Mannix
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« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2012, 01:13:21 PM »

O
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« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2012, 01:22:57 PM »

O
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« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2012, 01:27:03 PM »

I agree was a stupid drive and I did ask more then what he had .. Was in the heat of the moment got a little carried away
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« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2012, 01:32:46 PM »

O
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2012, 10:04:04 PM »

I agree was a stupid drive and I did ask more then what he had .. Was in the heat of the moment got a little carried away

Takes a real man to come forth and admit what he did and we all understand how that moment drivers get carried away.

I wasnt trying to belittle you one bit I only hope and pray you understand the two edge sword you are riding on and the  posistion you are being put in, by a trainer or owner demanding that from you.
I know most owners donot take a hard stand and could give two toots about the horse .They take the money and run and when he cant go know more Amish him.

I do hope you understand I dont blame you for their thoughtless and greed . But I do wish you would think about how we are viewed by the fans and public.

Like I said look at European racing the stands are filled you cant help but notice it, its vibrant and take another look the next thing you dont see is "whips".

If I am to hard and belittleing well,  I'm quite positive that horse feels belittled and treated very harshly. Its not about our egos and dollars. Its about the horse that earns us the dollar and egos.We must treat horses better . We have too! The public must see how much we apreciate horses, so they can apreciate horses with us.
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