Two year olds on Lasix

[king151]

Juice  you guys want something to *** about ? How about 2yos on Lasix ? Should NEVER  be allowed . Erv Miller is racing a 2yo filly on lasix  in the International Stallion Stakes in Lexington . Ideal Ginny ....How do racing commissions allow this ?  Come on , if a 2yo is bleeding then maybe they should be turned out and let Mother Nature take care  of things ..

[king151]

Wait JJ is giving his picks on this race and he missed this . how cold he.

[Juicejunkies]

Wait JJ is giving his picks on this race and he missed this . how cold he.

BUDDY I AM PICKING WINNERS AND MAKING MONEY.
LIKING OR DISLIKING SOMETHING ABOUT THE GAME DOESN'T AFFECT THE WAY I BET.

LEARN THE GAME YOU GRANDSTAND GOOF.

[Yimmy]

Most 2yo t-breds are on it.

[king151]

BUDDY I AM PICKING WINNERS AND MAKING MONEY.
LIKING OR DISLIKING SOMETHING ABOUT THE GAME DOESN'T AFFECT THE WAY I BET.

LEARN THE GAME YOU GRANDSTAND GOOF.

JJ , you are the biggest basher of horse abuse i have seen on any forum that is why i bring this to your attention . No need to bash me . But I see the gambling aspect is more improtant to you than horse welfare . Again your HYPOCRICY REARS ITS UGLY HEAD .

[dennycrane]

i raced a 2 yr filly on lasix for half the year  she bleed after her start in the state fair and had no choice....you worry about lasix.. how many of those babies are getting shocked in acid   .....i think thats worse

[dennycrane]

thta is supposed to be shocked and then acid

[king151]

Most 2yo t-breds are on it.

THAT does not make it right Yimmy . And if the new regulations go thru that will  not happen much longer .  

[king151]

thta is supposed to be shocked and then acid

I got what you meant denny. Believe me it is SO much healthier for a young horse to have a joint  shock waved and then injected with a good hylaronic acid than raced on lasix. Bottom line if a 2yo is bleeding its time to pull the plug.

[Juicejunkies]

JJ , you are the biggest basher of horse abuse i have seen on any forum that is why i bring this to your attention . No need to bash me . But I see the gambling aspect is more improtant to you than horse welfare . Again your HYPOCRICY REARS ITS UGLY HEAD .

MORE IMPORTANT.
YOU ARE OFF YOUR ROCKER.

WHY DON'T YOU TELL ERV MILLER.
I BET HE CRACKS YOU UPSIDE THE HEAD.

[king151]

Oh i get it like you would tell schnitker and pete foley and Campbell and mark mcdonald what you think they do wrong . And heres a big difference anyone who posts here knows who i am . and Yes i  would tell erv i dont think 2yos should ever race on lasix. And heres what you fail to remember YOU ARE THE SELF PROFESSED EXPERT IN WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG IN THE WAY HORSES ARE TREATED .

[the exactorman]

I got what you meant denny. Believe me it is SO much healthier for a young horse to have a joint  shock waved and then injected with a good hylaronic acid than raced on lasix. Bottom line if a 2yo is bleeding its time to pull the plug.

King, you bring up a great topic although I am not sure why you bring it up and immediately start bashing someone.
You and Denny Crane being horseman, what solutions are there?
And excuse this question if it is basic, why are T-breds automatically put on lasix?
What if a standardbred trainer DIDN'T put his/her young horse on lasix? what happens? I always thought you put a horse on lasix AFTER they bleed? but it seems trainers are automatic with it?

[dennycrane]

lasix is hard on a horse...it's big draw back was that it was supposed to mask other drugs...i think we are way past that at this point...lasix if done correctly seems ok to me PUT BACK IN WHAT U TAKE OUT

[dennycrane]

king ..see where jason robinson stubbed his toe again

[king151]

King, you bring up a great topic although I am not sure why you bring it up and immediately start bashing someone.
You and Denny Crane being horseman, what solutions are there?
And excuse this question if it is basic, why are T-breds automatically put on lasix?
What if a standardbred trainer DIDN'T put his/her young horse on lasix? what happens? I always thought you put a horse on lasix AFTER they bleed? but it seems trainers are automatic with it?

Exacta, The topic was not to bash JJ  , rather give him something he could really sink his teeth , other  than knocking people for how they manage their horses . As for t-breds I cant speak to that . As for our breed , I have a very strong opinon . IF A 2YO IS BLEEDING THEY SHOULD NOT BE RACING .PERIOD,.....

[Juicejunkies]

Exacta, The topic was not to bash JJ  , rather give him something he could really sink his teeth , other  than knocking people for how they manage their horses . As for t-breds I cant speak to that . As for our breed , I have a very strong opinon . IF A 2YO IS BLEEDING THEY SHOULD NOT BE RACING .PERIOD,.....

OK GOOD.   NOW START RALLYING THE TROOPS AND LEAVE ME ALONE.

[Blue Chip55]

BUDDY I AM PICKING WINNERS AND MAKING MONEY.
LIKING OR DISLIKING SOMETHING ABOUT THE GAME DOESN'T AFFECT THE WAY I BET.

LEARN THE GAME YOU GRANDSTAND GOOF.

LOVE IT 

[the exactorman]

Exacta, The topic was not to bash JJ  , rather give him something he could really sink his teeth , other  than knocking people for how they manage their horses . As for t-breds I cant speak to that . As for our breed , I have a very strong opinon . IF A 2YO IS BLEEDING THEY SHOULD NOT BE RACING .PERIOD,.....

But Wouldnt a trainer want to see what happens with a young horse BEFORE putting them on Lasix? You are answering the question IF the horse bleeds I guess my questions is more pro-active...before the fact...or bleeding happens.
I realize you cant answer for T-Breds but when they have the baby races, at lets say Belmont and Keeneland, there will be a 10 horse field going 4 1/2 - 5 furlongs and EVERY horse is ON lasix...I always wondered, why?? are all 10 horses bleeding???

[king151]

king ..see where jason robinson stubbed his toe again

I saw where it was posted but those dont bother me . I was called in this week to tell me mine  was due . Usta , makes no sense how they do when memberhip is due . Mine is due sept 30 , same as Robinson . Why arnt all dues due Jan 1 , or on your B-day ? Usta does it by the first letter in your last name , ridiculus..

[king151]

But Wouldnt a trainer want to see what happens with a young horse BEFORE putting them on Lasix? You are answering the question IF the horse bleeds I guess my questions is more pro-active...before the fact...or bleeding happens.
I realize you cant answer for T-Breds but when they have the baby races, at lets say Belmont and Keeneland, there will be a 10 horse field going 4 1/2 - 5 furlongs and EVERY horse is ON lasix...I always wondered, why?? are all 10 horses bleeding???

I would find it HIGHLY  unlikely that all 10 are bleeding .

[dennycrane]

king to did you ever bounce a check to pay ur dues

[king151]

LOVE IT 

I knew you would show up if someone was attacking JJ. You never fail me Cpw. right on cue , stage right Cpw  enters  to a dim lighted house to protect his partner in crime . LIGHTS , CAMERA , ACTION !!!!

[Juicejunkies]

I knew you would show up if someone was attacking JJ. You never fail me Cpw. right on cue , stage right Cpw  enters  to a dim lighted house to protect his partner in crime . LIGHTS , CAMERA , ACTION !!!!

WHAT CRIME?

[jdizigg]

If Erv wants to race his 2 yr olds on lasix thats up to him and his owners.  He usually never over races his stock..

[king151]

WHAT CRIME?

Oh dont be a baby JJ, you and Cpw have bashed  me for my opinion on Campbell and Mcdonald enough. This was a thread  that was not meant  to bash you in as much as give you  something to rant about that made sense . As opposed to bashing Schnitker for MANAGING  his horse .

[king151]

If Erv wants to race his 2 yr olds on lasix thats up to him and his owners.  He usually never over races his stock..

Jd  , your missing my  point to this , I dont think  it should EVER be legal to race a 2yo on lasix . I just  happened  to see  Erv had on racing on lasix.

[Juicejunkies]

Oh dont be a baby JJ, you and Cpw have bashed  me for my opinion on Campbell and Mcdonald enough. This was a thread  that was not meant  to bash you in as much as give you  something to rant about that made sense . As opposed to bashing Schnitker for MANAGING  his horse .

SNITTIKER IS A WUSSY WITH A (p), MANAGING MY ASS.

[Blue Chip55]

I knew you would show up if someone was attacking JJ. You never fail me Cpw. right on cue , stage right Cpw  enters  to a dim lighted house to protect his partner in crime . LIGHTS , CAMERA , ACTION !!!!

People get attacked for no eason as you generally do---if its JJ, Yimmy, Ex Man  or the other good members here, yes I'll defend them all day long. You have no clue who they are . I do. These are the best people you can ever meet. I'll never sit here and watch nonsense directed at them without expressing my views. Sorry.
Not that they need me. But you are one of numerous agitators here---a miserable quality in any person. But have fun. Its laughable

[Blue Chip55]

Jd  , your missing my  point to this , I dont think  it should EVER be legal to race a 2yo on lasix . I just  happened  to see  Erv had on racing on lasix.

Stop already. You look like a fool. I think its safe to say Erv Miller knows just a bit more about training than you. Just a bit

[Juicejunkies]

Stop already. You look like a fool. I think its safe to say Erv Miller knows just a bit more about training than you. Just a bit

ERV IS A HEAD CRACKER, KING151 MIGHT BE IN TROUBLE.

[king151]

Stop already. You look like a fool. I think its safe to say Erv Miller knows just a bit more about training than you. Just a bit

. S
And I would think John Campbell knows just a bit more than you do about driving a horse  , just  a bit . As does  Schnitker know a BIT more about training HIS HORSE, than JJ . Just  a bit . AS YOU  SAY.

[king151]

ERV IS A HEAD CRACKER, KING151 MIGHT BE IN TROUBLE.

jj , Ray is at goshen just about everyday if  you want to discuss your opinon  on his  MANAGEMENT OF HIS  HORSE .
I have to leave for a little while  , im not avoiding you two guinesses , i  just have to get my daughters from school  .

[jrstark]

I'll answer the Thoroughbred question. Lasix is thought to help prevent bleeding, and most states now allow it in that capacity. A horse no longer needs to bleed first.

[dennycrane]

i think that i know as much as all the others mentioned above and the bottom line is that king thinks its wrong and thatb is ok   i think its ok and thats ok  what i do know is that jj and cpw  talk out of thier south sides quite a bit

[Blue Chip55]

. S
And I would think John Campbell knows just a bit more than you do about driving a horse  , just  a bit . As does  Schnitker know a BIT more about training HIS HORSE, than JJ . Just  a bit . AS YOU  SAY.

One problem. Skills become diminised----you cant seem to grasp that
Not my problem.

[Juicejunkies]

i think that i know as much as all the others mentioned above and the bottom line is that king thinks its wrong and thatb is ok   i think its ok and thats ok  what i do know is that jj and cpw  talk out of thier south sides quite a bit

YOU WERE THROWN OUT OF MONTICELLO.
SHUT YOUR TRAP.

[fuzzypants]

Now wait just a damn minute ! Back this up thread up.
Number one and for most Lasix is preventive medication.
You don't wait for the gosh damn thing to bleed then start giving it!
Why would a two year ole tbred be any different than a standard bred!
Damn King ! Never knew u to be so upset?


Even a 3 year ol Arab gets it!

[dennycrane]

as bad as it may seem almost all horses race better on lasix..and as i said before   you just have to put back in what u take out

[jdizigg]

as bad as it may seem almost all horses race better on lasix..and as i said before   you just have to put back in what u take out

2nd time lasix for harness is best.

[THE REAL TRUTH]

Lets get some facts straight.
1) ALL horses including 2yo's bleed to varying degrees.
2) Lasix does NOT prevent bleeding--it only reduces it.
3) Since bleeding episodes cause lung scarring and the effects worsen over time-the LESS you can make horses bleed-the BETTER it is for the WELFARE of the horse-and its longevity for racing.

In other words--giving horses Lasix including 2yo's is to IMPROVE the welfare of the racehorse.

My only argument against Lasix would be in Group 1 races or BREEDERS CROWN Type races--since these horses especially colts--are to be used for breeding and there is some evidence that breeding to a horse that was a bad bleeder is inherited.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63571/study-eiph-is-an-inherited-trait

[Yimmy]

This is nothing.

I've heard that some trainers will actually go so far as to administer dihydrogen monoxide to their horses.

ALL horses will test positive for it, too. 

[Juicejunkies]

Lets get some facts straight.
1) ALL horses including 2yo's bleed to varying degrees.
2) Lasix does NOT prevent bleeding--it only reduces it.
3) Since bleeding episodes cause lung scarring and the effects worsen over time-the LESS you can make horses bleed-the BETTER it is for the WELFARE of the horse-and its longevity for racing.

In other words--giving horses Lasix including 2yo's is to IMPROVE the welfare of the racehorse.

My only argument against Lasix would be in Group 1 races or BREEDERS CROWN Type races--since these horses especially colts--are to be used for breeding and there is some evidence that breeding to a horse that was a bad bleeder is inherited.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63571/study-eiph-is-an-inherited-trait

TY.   AND I LIKE YOUR NAME!!!

[the exactorman]

I'll answer the Thoroughbred question. Lasix is thought to help prevent bleeding, and most states now allow it in that capacity. A horse no longer needs to bleed first.

Thanks! I appreciate your response.
Maybe I am not asking my question clearly, I know I had several. Why do young horses AUTOMATICALLY get lasix? It seems trainers just give lasix to a horse because they CAN do it?  I just thought any horse should be given the chance to race without lasix, if they bleed then give them lasix...no?

[NIATROSS]

Lets get some facts straight.
1) ALL horses including 2yo's bleed to varying degrees.
2) Lasix does NOT prevent bleeding--it only reduces it.
3) Since bleeding episodes cause lung scarring and the effects worsen over time-the LESS you can make horses bleed-the BETTER it is for the WELFARE of the horse-and its longevity for racing.

In other words--giving horses Lasix including 2yo's is to IMPROVE the welfare of the racehorse.

My only argument against Lasix would be in Group 1 races or BREEDERS CROWN Type races--since these horses especially colts--are to be used for breeding and there is some evidence that breeding to a horse that was a bad bleeder is inherited.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63571/study-eiph-is-an-inherited-trait

if the rest of the tbred world can do fine without lasix so can the u.s.

[dennycrane]

many horse should be injected with dihydrogen monoxide.....it goes good with grass

[king151]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/70530/ky-approves-race-day-salix-ban-battle-looms

Their are many that believe it should be banned altogether .

[jrstark]

The rest of the world may not use Lasix on race day, but they are allowed to train on it.

The reason for giving it before any bleeding is as mentioned above, to reduce any potential lung scarring.

Bleeding isn't a yes/no thing, there are degrees. While there are inherited tendencies, it can also be caused by stress (injury, etc). There is both chronic and acute, however enough acute episodes can become chronic.

All horses do not react the same way to Lasix. There are also different dosages, not all horses receive the maximum.

[dennycrane]

a study was done years ago on the runners on the west coast   something like 1000  were scoped shortly after racing and i want to say that 92% showed some blood in the respitory system...so in theory almost all hoses bleed to some extent

[Yimmy]

Ghostzapper raced on it from day one, and it doesn't seem to have hurt him.  Top sire as I type these words.

In fact, he was apparently also on Bute in his first start.

[king151]

SHUT UP.

Great comebv?ack JJ, isnt that what you told me to do ? Tell Erv?

[Juicejunkies]

Great comebv?ack JJ, isnt that what you told me to do ? Tell Erv?

YES TELL HIM.   THERE IS A DIFFERENCE HE IS YOUR PEER.

WHEN A GUY DONT LIKE A FOOTBALL PLAYER IS HE SUPPOSED TO STALK HIM AND TELL HIM?   NO WE ARE THE FANS WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXPOSE THESE CHEATS AND GUYS WHO STOMP TRADITION OF THE GAME WE LOVE.

[king151]

YES TELL HIM.   THERE IS A DIFFERENCE HE IS YOUR PEER.

WHEN A GUY DONT LIKE A FOOTBALL PLAYER IS HE SUPPOSED TO STALK HIM AND TELL HIM?   NO WE ARE THE FANS WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXPOSE THESE CHEATS AND GUYS WHO STOMP TRADITION OF THE GAME WE LOVE.


[/quote


JJ, let me ask you a question . Have you ever owned ,trained, cared for  or driven a horse that has raced two heats ? If you havnt Im not saying it disqualifies your OPINION but it does disqualify you from having any KNOWLEDGE  of the effects two heats can have on a horse .Ray has raced horses multiple heats and obviously dosnt like how it adversly effected his horses .
JJ , I have raced two horses two heats in the Jug and both horses were done for the year afterwards . One of them A-fibbed and took a week to get his heart back in rhythm , caused from the loss of electrolytes racing both heats . If Im ever lucky enough to have a horse capable of raicng in the jug two heats I dont know what I would do .  It would be awfully tough to pass on a chance to win the Jug . But I know first hand why Ray wont go two heats with one of the best trotting fillies to ever look thru a bridle .She hopefully has a long career ahead of her as he has stated she will race as an older mare.

[king151]

Juice  you guys want something to *** about ? How about 2yos on Lasix ? Should NEVER  be allowed . Erv Miller is racing a 2yo filly on lasix  in the International Stallion Stakes in Lexington . Ideal Ginny ....How do racing commissions allow this ?  Come on , if a 2yo is bleeding then maybe they should be turned out and let Mother  take care  of things ..

JJ , can you show me where I personally attacked Erv ? I attacked the PRACTICE OF RACING 2YOS ON LASIX.

[Juicejunkies]

KING HOW MANY TIMES HAS THE JUG BEEN RACED?
HOW ABOUT THE KENTUCKY FUTURITY?
CONFEDERATION CUP?
HAMBONE?

[Yimmy]

King, with all due respect, I don't think you'd be able to sell the no-lasix-for-2yos proposition to any of the top trainers at Belmont. 

[king151]

KING HOW MANY TIMES HAS THE JUG BEEN RACED?
HOW ABOUT THE KENTUCKY FUTURITY?
CONFEDERATION CUP?
HAMBONE?

Irrelevent , would you please answer my well thought out non abusive post ?

[king151]

King, with all due respect, I don't think you'd be able to sell the no-lasix-for-2yos proposition to any of the top trainers at Belmont. 

I wont have to the racing commisions are working on it now , wont be long no lasix in graded stakes or for 2yos at all . Just go to the bloodedhorse.com and search LASIX. 

[Juicejunkies]

Irrelevent , would you please answer my well thought out non abusive post ?

IRRELEVANT?  (CHECK YOUR SPELLING).

ANYWAYS, IT IS RELEVANT, WHEN YOU FIGURE OUT HOW MANY TIMES THESE HEAT RACES HAVE BEEN CONTESTED AND THEN CHECK THE WINNERS AND WHAT THEY DID FOLLOWING THOSE RACES YOU WILL SEE THE 'EFFECTS' WERE NOT REALLY 'EFFECTS' AT ALL.

[king151]

JJ, I just gave you two instances that I know of first hand , Im not going to go back and check the winners . What matters here is Ray is doing what he feels is in HIS HORSES BEST INTEREST . He feels it would do her harm , that is all that matters . He went thru it with Dewey and says it effected him adversely. You claim to be in favor of the horses well being at all costs , he is doing that . I would think you would applaud him for thinking of his horse first. 

[Juicejunkies]

JJ, I just gave you two instances that I know of first hand , Im not going to go back and check the winners . What matters here is Ray is doing what he feels is in HIS HORSES BEST INTEREST . He feels it would do her harm , that is all that matters . He went thru it with Dewey and says it effected him adversely. You claim to be in favor of the horses well being at all costs , he is doing that . I would think you would applaud him for thinking of his horse first. 

then why even stake to the race?
my beef is not with him protecting the horse.
it is with him trampling the game.

stop being thick.

[king151]

then why even stake to the race?
my beef is not with him protecting the horse.
it is with him trampling the game.

stop being thick.

You  just said it had no effects now your saying thats not what your problem with  it . As far as racing her the first heat , if he dosnt race her it will be 3 weeks between her for the Breeders Crown . And a chance if the conditions are right to maybe trot under 151 with her .

[Juicejunkies]

You  just said it had no effects now your saying thats not what your problem with  it . As far as racing her the first heat , if he dosnt race her it will be 3 weeks between her for the Breeders Crown . And a chance if the conditions are right to maybe trot under 151 with her .

im saying both.   based on history it has no effects.

if ray is against it(for any reason) then dont stake in and dont enter the race.

jesus king are you just wanting to argue???

if you dont see the problem with what he is doing you are 100% shot out.

[dennycrane]

listen ....the guy paid his money to get in ..HE CAN RACE THE WAY HE WANTS  if he want to go only one heat he is the one suffering the financial loss...why is racing heats even an issue??