Chicago Barn to Wire Breeders' Cup Handicapping Tournaments
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


October 31, 2014, 03:38:25 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: 15 claimer goes 150.4 on sloppy track at The Meadows  (Read 2820 times)
pigland1
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 11748




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2012, 06:43:31 AM »

Not really.

I've been in the game a long time.  In the past, I've worked under some of the best trainers around.  I've also worked under a top chemist or two.  I learned things from both.  Anyone who can consistently take 2-3 (sometimes more) seconds off a horses time within a week-- as we could 95% of the time-- is treating for breathing and pain with meds above and beyond what the local vets are carrying.  With the exception of one owner, who was part of the supply chain, none of our owners knew what the horses were being pre-raced with either... or that it was anything above and beyond the norm.  Nor do I suspect they really cared.  

But here's another pattern to look forward re: chemists and claiming horses.  You can improve them a LOT in a week treating for those two things but, typically, they won't hold up to those sorts of miles.  90+% of them will be done in 2-3 months.  You can make them go faster... but its really hard to keep them sound when they're artificially over-extending their natural capabilities every week.

Oh, and one also never takes a horse off another "chemist."  And, really, "chemist" is giving most of them far too much credit.  Now if one were to claim say, a Coleman horse, and drop it three seconds in a weeks time... THEN I would be impressed.

Mind you, I'm not accusing Mr. Burke of anything.  I do not know him nor do I follow his stable closely. But, I do know the game.  And I do know the signs/symptoms of when its being played.
WELL SAID
Report to moderator   Logged
Juicejunkies
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 17715

Ignore Button Below↓↓↓


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2012, 07:11:56 AM »

IF BURKE IS LEGIT THEY SHOULD THROW EVERYONE ELSE OUT OF THE HALL OF FAME

If they put these cheats in the hall of fame i will vomit.
Report to moderator   Logged
pigland1
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 11748




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2012, 07:13:41 AM »

If they put these cheats in the hall of fame i will vomit.
THE HALL SHOULD CLOSE ITS DOORS TO NEW TRAINERS TILL THE SPORT GETS CLEAN
Report to moderator   Logged
Provenus1
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 81




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2012, 07:44:27 AM »

I understand the pain part of it going faster, but what do they do to help them breathe better? I would assume they could just buy a bronchial cleanser at the tack shop to help out with that? Just so I know, what do they do that is illegal that makes them breathe better?

Thanks,
Report to moderator   Logged
LWC
Full Member
***
Posts: 141




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2012, 08:12:21 AM »

I understand the pain part of it going faster, but what do they do to help them breathe better? I would assume they could just buy a bronchial cleanser at the tack shop to help out with that? Just so I know, what do they do that is illegal that makes them breathe better?

Thanks,

Without getting too much into the physiology one basically wants to support bronchodilation and prevent bronchoconstriction within the smaller airways.  More airflow = better oxygenation of muscle tissue = more speed.

Technically, giving a horse ANY medication after they've been dropped in the box to race is "illegal."  Yet, 95% of trainers give something.  Short answer... no, the stuff one can find in their local tack shop isn't going to take that kind of time off of a horse.  Heck, the stuff the local vet has isn't going to take that kind of time off a horse either... but mostly because it can't be given close enough to have much of an effect.

Report to moderator   Logged
SON OF JOR-EL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 595




Ignore
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2012, 11:59:31 AM »

IF BURKE IS LEGIT THEY SHOULD THROW EVERYONE ELSE OUT OF THE HALL OF FAME
thumbs up thumbs up
Report to moderator   Logged
jks best
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 387




Ignore
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2012, 12:22:10 PM »


Quote from: pigland1 on Today at 06:35:21 AM
IF BURKE IS LEGIT THEY SHOULD THROW EVERYONE ELSE OUT OF THE HALL OF FAME

Quote from: JuiceJunkies on Today at 07:11:56 AM
If they put these cheats in the hall of fame i will vomit.

Quote from Pigland
THE HALL SHOULD CLOSE ITS DOORS TO NEW TRAINERS TILL THE SPORT GETS CLEAN

Harness Racing is in the juice era. There are very few legit trainers. Burke is as legit as Lou Pena. The Burkes are stealing more money then anyone else. Burkes have people defend their criminal ways on every forums & that is very sad. You guys know there is no way the Burke operation can be successful without an edge. I have been told by many that Ron Burke is an AVERAGE HORSEMAN & not the superstar we are led to believe.
 
Report to moderator   Logged
SON OF JOR-EL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 595




Ignore
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2012, 12:43:41 PM »

THE HALL SHOULD CLOSE ITS DOORS TO NEW TRAINERS TILL THE SPORT GETS CLEAN
Maybe they could open a Hall Of Shame!!!!!!
Report to moderator   Logged
newjackcity
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3190




Ignore
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2012, 12:59:49 PM »

Claiming or buying a horse off of any trainer/owner goof and giving him to a good trainer with a real driver is going to  make the steed 10-15 lengths better First start..
Hell happens every day all over the place.  So 2-3 secs is a given...Anything above that can be attributed to a multitude of factors...SHOES, SULKY, RIGGING ETC ETC....
So before anyone goes off half-cocked on the Burke bashing, guarntee this one going to any good trainer there would have been 2-3 secs better next start,,,,So how much did Burke actually improve this one, if you take my initial premise and extrapoliate it forward.
Reasonable men do differ... I am so glad that everyone on this site is just so damn reasonable.   sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm
Report to moderator   Logged
SON OF JOR-EL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 595




Ignore
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2012, 01:53:35 PM »

Claiming or buying a horse off of any trainer/owner goof and giving him to a good trainer with a real driver is going to  make the steed 10-15 lengths better First start..
Hell happens every day all over the place.  So 2-3 secs is a given...Anything above that can be attributed to a multitude of factors...SHOES, SULKY, RIGGING ETC ETC....
So before anyone goes off half-cocked on the Burke bashing, guarntee this one going to any good trainer there would have been 2-3 secs better next start,,,,So how much did Burke actually improve this one, if you take my initial premise and extrapoliate it forward.
Reasonable men do differ... I am so glad that everyone on this site is just so damn reasonable.   sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm
In the land of the blind, the one eyed-man is king!!!!!!!  Sad
Report to moderator   Logged
Provenus1
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 81




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2012, 02:36:47 PM »

The track was listed as 1 second off. So in that case, on a regular track you can equate that to 149.4. I'm sorry, I have been watching the meadows for years and never seen a horse even get close to 150 in any claiming race all the way up to the 30 claimers let alone a 15 claimer. And it just happens to be a burke horse that he just acquired? Even if he improves the horse by ten lengths in a couple weeks because he is a better trainer, that would equate to a mile in 152 and a piece over what he had been going.
Report to moderator   Logged
TheRedMile
Guest

« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2012, 02:41:45 PM »

congrats to burke team
Report to moderator   Logged
russel rash
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 270




Ignore
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2012, 04:47:28 PM »

ft off,the burkes did not improve this horse in 1 start.they had the horse for more than i month.he had 3 very mediocre starts in better company and then was dropped into a 15 claimer.second,do times really matter?afternoon racing,albeit a very fast mile,lets see him jump a class or two and beat better.thirds,for those of you that have some sense,anthony coletta to palone is a big driver switch.4th,for those of you that dont think trainers can improve horses 2 seconds are wrong.5th,you can surmise what you want about burkes but to compare him to pena is utterly ridiculous.anything that has been claimed off pena has been atrocious and in most cases ,his horses have had excellent form and then fell off a cliff.on the other hand,burkes horses have longevity.not defending anyone,but i dont see the pena comparison at all.
Report to moderator   Logged
doubledigetman
Guest

« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2012, 04:52:15 PM »

ft off,the burkes did not improve this horse in 1 start.they had the horse for more than i month.he had 3 very mediocre starts in better company and then was dropped into a 15 claimer.second,do times really matter?afternoon racing,albeit a very fast mile,lets see him jump a class or two and beat better.thirds,for those of you that have some sense,anthony coletta to palone is a big driver switch.4th,for those of you that dont think trainers can improve horses 2 seconds are wrong.5th,you can surmise what you want about burkes but to compare him to pena is utterly ridiculous.anything that has been claimed off pena has been atrocious and in most cases ,his horses have had excellent form and then fell off a cliff.on the other hand,burkes horses have longevity.not defending anyone,but i dont see the pena comparison at all.

That's too much logic for some of the 3rd graders on here.
Report to moderator   Logged
jks best
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 387




Ignore
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2012, 05:12:28 PM »

Burke horses take a few months to crash & Pena's crash in 1 to 2 weeks. A cheater is a cheater know matter how you dress it up.
1) The Burke pole smokers defend the creep no matter what.
2)  No trainers don't improve horses 15-20 lengths off Coletta everyday. That is a BS excuse.
3) Trainers with a clue don't train their star in 1:49 with their lardass in the bike. Mr. Miyagi that would be a 1:46 mile with Palone...right? Sweet Lou can only finish 5th in 1:48:3. Where was the 3 second improvement to Palone?
4) Burke does not make changes until the Adios. Another great line proving Burke has no clue. Gas & go is all he knows.
5) Most of the horses the burkes buy privately are from trainers who developed the horse. That is the hard job. They all can't be complete idiots...right? None are capable of making the horses go as fast as the Burkes. That is to funny...right?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 05:22:29 PM by jks best » Report to moderator   Logged
TheRedMile
Guest

« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2012, 05:49:35 PM »

That's too much logic for some of the 3rd graders on here.

 thumbs up thumbs up
Report to moderator   Logged
jdizigg
Guest

« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2012, 06:01:28 PM »

Burke horses take a few months to crash & Pena's crash in 1 to 2 weeks. A cheater is a cheater know matter how you dress it up.
1) The Burke pole smokers defend the creep no matter what.
2)  No trainers don't improve horses 15-20 lengths off Coletta everyday. That is a BS excuse.
3) Trainers with a clue don't train their star in 1:49 with their lardass in the bike. Mr. Miyagi that would be a 1:46 mile with Palone...right? Sweet Lou can only finish 5th in 1:48:3. Where was the 3 second improvement to Palone?
4) Burke does not make changes until the Adios. Another great line proving Burke has no clue. Gas & go is all he knows.
5) Most of the horses the burkes buy privately are from trainers who developed the horse. That is the hard job. They all can't be complete idiots...right? None are capable of making the horses go as fast as the Burkes. That is to funny...right?

Might want to take that coletta line out of there,  He could single handidly go 15 to 20 seconds slower just by holding the lines.....but i get your point
Report to moderator   Logged
russel rash
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 270




Ignore
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2012, 10:52:58 PM »

Burke horses take a few months to crash & Pena's crash in 1 to 2 weeks. A cheater is a cheater know matter how you dress it up.
1) The Burke pole smokers defend the creep no matter what.
2)  No trainers don't improve horses 15-20 lengths off Coletta everyday. That is a BS excuse.
3) Trainers with a clue don't train their star in 1:49 with their lardass in the bike. Mr. Miyagi that would be a 1:46 mile with Palone...right? Sweet Lou can only finish 5th in 1:48:3. Where was the 3 second improvement to Palone?
4) Burke does not make changes until the Adios. Another great line proving Burke has no clue. Gas & go is all he knows.
5) Most of the horses the burkes buy privately are from trainers who developed the horse. That is the hard job. They all can't be complete idiots...right? None are capable of making the horses go as fast as the Burkes. That is to funny...right?
obviously you have a position on burke but if he trains the horse in 49 that makes him a bad trainer how?taking a horse off of coleeta will improve the horse a lot,sorry but i think most people know that.
this horse that we are talking about made 3 very mediocre starts before being dropped to 15 claimer and running off .i dont think this can be classified as immediate turnaround.i have seen no evidence of burkes tailing off in 2 months.burkes have had a very high rate of success keeping horses good for a long time.they also have had many horses claimed from them that go right on and improve,unlike pena.
you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
Report to moderator   Logged
jks best
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 387




Ignore
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2012, 12:11:20 AM »

obviously you have a position on burke but if he trains the horse in 49 that makes him a bad trainer how?

Who trains a horse in 1:49? Add in the trainer in the bike. That is a 3 second allowance going to Palone...by Burke lover standards.
RR you don't see anything wrong with this? C'mon RR you got to admit it is comical. Ron explaining how they had 3 stopwatches on SL & not realizing how dumb he sounded.
Report to moderator   Logged
doubledigetman
Guest

« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2012, 12:16:41 AM »

That is a 3 second allowance going to Palone...by Burke lover standards.
Another stupid post that holds no merit .
Report to moderator   Logged
Provenus1
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 81




Ignore
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2012, 07:23:20 AM »

Those of you who supported the fact that this horse went that fast without juice last week, how do you justify him going in 1:53 this week on a fast track in the 30k claiming race? If you factor in the sloppy track and 1 second allowance, that is over 3 seconds slower this week than what he did last week.
Report to moderator   Logged
yeast
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 622




Ignore
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2012, 10:56:04 AM »

Those of you who supported the fact that this horse went that fast without juice last week, how do you justify him going in 1:53 this week on a fast track in the 30k claiming race? If you factor in the sloppy track and 1 second allowance, that is over 3 seconds slower this week than what he did last week.
  The horse was a runaway winner in a 15 claimer last week. Obviously the class  jump was too much for the horse . The 30 claimers werent going to let this horse have his own way. Class is way more important than time and this is just one example.
Report to moderator   Logged
Provenus1
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 81




Ignore
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2012, 12:42:08 PM »

Actually, they did let him have his own way. He left from his post and was leading the entire race until they straightened out for home and he went back through the field.
Race 1 10/9 The Meadows.
Report to moderator   Logged
yeast
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 622




Ignore
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2012, 01:16:45 PM »

Actually, they did let him have his own way. He left from his post and was leading the entire race until they straightened out for home and he went back through the field.
Race 1 10/9 The Meadows.
Watch the race again he got parked out until after the quarter before he got the lead. Then Tony Halls horse came first over past the half and hounded him until the horse gave way halfway down the lane. After he was passed Palones horse just gave up. The horse beat up on 12 claimers last week . When a better horse challenged him  this week he spit the bit.
Report to moderator   Logged
ThePaceMaker
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1261




Ignore
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2012, 06:23:42 PM »

THEY DO IT WITH NEEDLES

Chinese acupuncture works wonders
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.096 seconds with 17 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Breeders' Cup
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Breeders' Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy