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Provenus1
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« on: October 02, 2012, 12:31:23 PM » |
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At the Meadows today. Race 1. Trainer just acquired the horse 3 weeks ago. Can anyone guess who the trainer is?
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2012, 02:25:17 PM » |
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Gilbert or Burke ?
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pigland1
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2012, 02:27:58 PM » |
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IGUES A CHEAT
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Provenus1
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2012, 02:33:52 PM » |
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Burke can do some amazing things with a horse in just a week or two. I just wish I knew how you could get a horse to shave 3 seconds so fast.
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pigland1
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2012, 02:34:32 PM » |
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Burke can do some amazing things with a horse in just a week or two. I just wish I knew how you could get a horse to shave 3 seconds so fast.
THEY DO IT WITH NEEDLES |
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2012, 02:39:08 PM » |
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THEY DO IT WITH NEEDLES
Oh press was told bar shoe and letting out hoppers bet report says 3.75 hours out ! Pig says needles! People should listen to pig inside information! |
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bangbang553
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2012, 03:42:32 PM » |
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horse could only improve once coletta stopped driving and training
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2012, 03:50:53 PM » |
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horse could only improve once coletta stopped driving and training
And here's anther great thought! |
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Pulledtherugout
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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2012, 04:53:36 PM » |
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And here's anther great thought!
Burke uses better air in his race bikes.  |
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2012, 04:57:57 PM » |
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Burke uses better air in his race bikes. I thought that was it |
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Pulledtherugout
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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2012, 05:00:32 PM » |
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I thought that was it
Summer air in the tires accounts for faster times than winter air. |
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doubledigetman
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« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2012, 06:36:02 PM » |
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horse could only improve once coletta stopped driving and training
Gee that had nothing to do with it   |
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2012, 06:47:38 PM » |
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Summer air in the tires accounts for faster times than winter air.
maybe he borrowed lucky bar shoes from pena since he isnt needding them right now. Was the other trainer using horse for goat roping? |
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jks best
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« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2012, 11:04:32 PM » |
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The Burkes belong in a jail cell next to Lou Pena.
BAN THE BURKES
BURKES = CHEATERS
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SON OF JOR-EL
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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2012, 11:06:48 PM » |
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Next week the horse will go sub 150!!!!!! This man is a genius!!!!!!!
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jks best
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« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2012, 11:14:09 PM » |
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Next week the horse will go sub 150!!!!!! This man is a genius!!!!!!!
Did you lend the Burkes your super powers?  The ones that make comments that it is possible should get their heads out of Ron's.......... |
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SON OF JOR-EL
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« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2012, 11:21:24 PM » |
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My father jor-el must have granted him super powers!!!!!! |
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jks best
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« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2012, 11:23:36 PM » |
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My father jor-el must have granted him super powers!!!!!!
Was your father a chemist? |
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jks best
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« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2012, 11:32:30 PM » |
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The Burkes gave some of the rocket fuel to a 15 claimer. Their special formula deadens the pain a horse might feel. It also helps the breathing.
Sweet Lou is getting something for pain. His perfect trip at the Red Mile showed that. His gait isn't fluid & his head is off like a horse that is hurting. I give credit to Sweet Lou (has no choice) for being gritty.
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LWC
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« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2012, 11:35:31 PM » |
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Burke can do some amazing things with a horse in just a week or two. I just wish I knew how you could get a horse to shave 3 seconds so fast.
One does it the same way one has done it for at least 25 years now. By taking a horse from a "regular" barn (one not using the newest blackmarket breathing/pain meds) and treating them for breathing and pain. There's simply NO other way to even somewhat consistently show form reversals of that caliber. Not on any sort of routine basis. And not in a week. |
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MR.DALRAE
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« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2012, 12:25:41 AM » |
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and we keep doing it,,,,,,hard work on who to claim
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Juicejunkies
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« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2012, 05:38:19 AM » |
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One does it the same way one has done it for at least 25 years now. By taking a horse from a "regular" barn (one not using the newest blackmarket breathing/pain meds) and treating them for breathing and pain. There's simply NO other way to even somewhat consistently show form reversals of that caliber. Not on any sort of routine basis. And not in a week.
He is loaded with cash I asked him to fund a small staff of people to observe his methods for a couple months. It would take 8-10 good men to travel and be very vigilant. If he keeps winning and my staff sees nothing then we will know he's clean. Of course he ignored my request. |
Everything I say is to be considered opinion, not fact. Please verify with outside sources all comments and statements made by me.
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pigland1
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« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2012, 06:35:21 AM » |
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IF BURKE IS LEGIT THEY SHOULD THROW EVERYONE ELSE OUT OF THE HALL OF FAME
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LWC
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« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2012, 06:38:55 AM » |
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and we keep doing it,,,,,,hard work on who to claim
Not really. I've been in the game a long time. In the past, I've worked under some of the best trainers around. I've also worked under a top chemist or two. I learned things from both. Anyone who can consistently take 2-3 (sometimes more) seconds off a horses time within a week-- as we could 95% of the time-- is treating for breathing and pain with meds above and beyond what the local vets are carrying. With the exception of one owner, who was part of the supply chain, none of our owners knew what the horses were being pre-raced with either... or that it was anything above and beyond the norm. Nor do I suspect they really cared. But here's another pattern to look forward re: chemists and claiming horses. You can improve them a LOT in a week treating for those two things but, typically, they won't hold up to those sorts of miles. 90+% of them will be done in 2-3 months. You can make them go faster... but its really hard to keep them sound when they're artificially over-extending their natural capabilities every week. Oh, and one also never takes a horse off another "chemist." And, really, "chemist" is giving most of them far too much credit. Now if one were to claim say, a Coleman horse, and drop it three seconds in a weeks time... THEN I would be impressed. Mind you, I'm not accusing Mr. Burke of anything. I do not know him nor do I follow his stable closely. But, I do know the game. And I do know the signs/symptoms of when its being played. |
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pigland1
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« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2012, 06:43:31 AM » |
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Not really.
I've been in the game a long time. In the past, I've worked under some of the best trainers around. I've also worked under a top chemist or two. I learned things from both. Anyone who can consistently take 2-3 (sometimes more) seconds off a horses time within a week-- as we could 95% of the time-- is treating for breathing and pain with meds above and beyond what the local vets are carrying. With the exception of one owner, who was part of the supply chain, none of our owners knew what the horses were being pre-raced with either... or that it was anything above and beyond the norm. Nor do I suspect they really cared.
But here's another pattern to look forward re: chemists and claiming horses. You can improve them a LOT in a week treating for those two things but, typically, they won't hold up to those sorts of miles. 90+% of them will be done in 2-3 months. You can make them go faster... but its really hard to keep them sound when they're artificially over-extending their natural capabilities every week.
Oh, and one also never takes a horse off another "chemist." And, really, "chemist" is giving most of them far too much credit. Now if one were to claim say, a Coleman horse, and drop it three seconds in a weeks time... THEN I would be impressed.
Mind you, I'm not accusing Mr. Burke of anything. I do not know him nor do I follow his stable closely. But, I do know the game. And I do know the signs/symptoms of when its being played.
WELL SAID |
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Juicejunkies
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« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2012, 07:11:56 AM » |
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IF BURKE IS LEGIT THEY SHOULD THROW EVERYONE ELSE OUT OF THE HALL OF FAME
If they put these cheats in the hall of fame i will vomit. |
Everything I say is to be considered opinion, not fact. Please verify with outside sources all comments and statements made by me.
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pigland1
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« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2012, 07:13:41 AM » |
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If they put these cheats in the hall of fame i will vomit.
THE HALL SHOULD CLOSE ITS DOORS TO NEW TRAINERS TILL THE SPORT GETS CLEAN |
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Provenus1
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« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2012, 07:44:27 AM » |
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I understand the pain part of it going faster, but what do they do to help them breathe better? I would assume they could just buy a bronchial cleanser at the tack shop to help out with that? Just so I know, what do they do that is illegal that makes them breathe better?
Thanks,
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LWC
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Posts: 49
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« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2012, 08:12:21 AM » |
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I understand the pain part of it going faster, but what do they do to help them breathe better? I would assume they could just buy a bronchial cleanser at the tack shop to help out with that? Just so I know, what do they do that is illegal that makes them breathe better?
Thanks,
Without getting too much into the physiology one basically wants to support bronchodilation and prevent bronchoconstriction within the smaller airways. More airflow = better oxygenation of muscle tissue = more speed. Technically, giving a horse ANY medication after they've been dropped in the box to race is "illegal." Yet, 95% of trainers give something. Short answer... no, the stuff one can find in their local tack shop isn't going to take that kind of time off of a horse. Heck, the stuff the local vet has isn't going to take that kind of time off a horse either... but mostly because it can't be given close enough to have much of an effect. |
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SON OF JOR-EL
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« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2012, 11:59:31 AM » |
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IF BURKE IS LEGIT THEY SHOULD THROW EVERYONE ELSE OUT OF THE HALL OF FAME
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jks best
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« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2012, 12:22:10 PM » |
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Quote from: pigland1 on Today at 06:35:21 AM
IF BURKE IS LEGIT THEY SHOULD THROW EVERYONE ELSE OUT OF THE HALL OF FAME
Quote from: JuiceJunkies on Today at 07:11:56 AM
If they put these cheats in the hall of fame i will vomit.
Quote from Pigland
THE HALL SHOULD CLOSE ITS DOORS TO NEW TRAINERS TILL THE SPORT GETS CLEAN
Harness Racing is in the juice era. There are very few legit trainers. Burke is as legit as Lou Pena. The Burkes are stealing more money then anyone else. Burkes have people defend their criminal ways on every forums & that is very sad. You guys know there is no way the Burke operation can be successful without an edge. I have been told by many that Ron Burke is an AVERAGE HORSEMAN & not the superstar we are led to believe.
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SON OF JOR-EL
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« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2012, 12:43:41 PM » |
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THE HALL SHOULD CLOSE ITS DOORS TO NEW TRAINERS TILL THE SPORT GETS CLEAN
Maybe they could open a Hall Of Shame!!!!!! |
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newjackcity
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« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2012, 12:59:49 PM » |
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Claiming or buying a horse off of any trainer/owner goof and giving him to a good trainer with a real driver is going to make the steed 10-15 lengths better First start.. Hell happens every day all over the place. So 2-3 secs is a given...Anything above that can be attributed to a multitude of factors...SHOES, SULKY, RIGGING ETC ETC.... So before anyone goes off half-cocked on the Burke bashing, guarntee this one going to any good trainer there would have been 2-3 secs better next start,,,,So how much did Burke actually improve this one, if you take my initial premise and extrapoliate it forward. Reasonable men do differ... I am so glad that everyone on this site is just so damn reasonable. |
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SON OF JOR-EL
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« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2012, 01:53:35 PM » |
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Claiming or buying a horse off of any trainer/owner goof and giving him to a good trainer with a real driver is going to make the steed 10-15 lengths better First start.. Hell happens every day all over the place. So 2-3 secs is a given...Anything above that can be attributed to a multitude of factors...SHOES, SULKY, RIGGING ETC ETC.... So before anyone goes off half-cocked on the Burke bashing, guarntee this one going to any good trainer there would have been 2-3 secs better next start,,,,So how much did Burke actually improve this one, if you take my initial premise and extrapoliate it forward. Reasonable men do differ... I am so glad that everyone on this site is just so damn reasonable. In the land of the blind, the one eyed-man is king!!!!!!!  |
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Provenus1
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« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2012, 02:36:47 PM » |
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The track was listed as 1 second off. So in that case, on a regular track you can equate that to 149.4. I'm sorry, I have been watching the meadows for years and never seen a horse even get close to 150 in any claiming race all the way up to the 30 claimers let alone a 15 claimer. And it just happens to be a burke horse that he just acquired? Even if he improves the horse by ten lengths in a couple weeks because he is a better trainer, that would equate to a mile in 152 and a piece over what he had been going.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2012, 02:41:45 PM » |
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congrats to burke team
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russel rash
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« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2012, 04:47:28 PM » |
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ft off,the burkes did not improve this horse in 1 start.they had the horse for more than i month.he had 3 very mediocre starts in better company and then was dropped into a 15 claimer.second,do times really matter?afternoon racing,albeit a very fast mile,lets see him jump a class or two and beat better.thirds,for those of you that have some sense,anthony coletta to palone is a big driver switch.4th,for those of you that dont think trainers can improve horses 2 seconds are wrong.5th,you can surmise what you want about burkes but to compare him to pena is utterly ridiculous.anything that has been claimed off pena has been atrocious and in most cases ,his horses have had excellent form and then fell off a cliff.on the other hand,burkes horses have longevity.not defending anyone,but i dont see the pena comparison at all.
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doubledigetman
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« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2012, 04:52:15 PM » |
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ft off,the burkes did not improve this horse in 1 start.they had the horse for more than i month.he had 3 very mediocre starts in better company and then was dropped into a 15 claimer.second,do times really matter?afternoon racing,albeit a very fast mile,lets see him jump a class or two and beat better.thirds,for those of you that have some sense,anthony coletta to palone is a big driver switch.4th,for those of you that dont think trainers can improve horses 2 seconds are wrong.5th,you can surmise what you want about burkes but to compare him to pena is utterly ridiculous.anything that has been claimed off pena has been atrocious and in most cases ,his horses have had excellent form and then fell off a cliff.on the other hand,burkes horses have longevity.not defending anyone,but i dont see the pena comparison at all.
That's too much logic for some of the 3rd graders on here. |
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jks best
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« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2012, 05:12:28 PM » |
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Burke horses take a few months to crash & Pena's crash in 1 to 2 weeks. A cheater is a cheater know matter how you dress it up.
1) The Burke pole smokers defend the creep no matter what.
2) No trainers don't improve horses 15-20 lengths off Coletta everyday. That is a BS excuse.
3) Trainers with a clue don't train their star in 1:49 with their lardass in the bike. Mr. Miyagi that would be a 1:46 mile with Palone...right? Sweet Lou can only finish 5th in 1:48:3. Where was the 3 second improvement to Palone?
4) Burke does not make changes until the Adios. Another great line proving Burke has no clue. Gas & go is all he knows.
5) Most of the horses the burkes buy privately are from trainers who developed the horse. That is the hard job. They all can't be complete idiots...right? None are capable of making the horses go as fast as the Burkes. That is to funny...right?
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2012, 05:49:35 PM » |
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That's too much logic for some of the 3rd graders on here.
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jdizigg
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« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2012, 06:01:28 PM » |
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Burke horses take a few months to crash & Pena's crash in 1 to 2 weeks. A cheater is a cheater know matter how you dress it up.
1) The Burke pole smokers defend the creep no matter what.
2) No trainers don't improve horses 15-20 lengths off Coletta everyday. That is a BS excuse.
3) Trainers with a clue don't train their star in 1:49 with their lardass in the bike. Mr. Miyagi that would be a 1:46 mile with Palone...right? Sweet Lou can only finish 5th in 1:48:3. Where was the 3 second improvement to Palone?
4) Burke does not make changes until the Adios. Another great line proving Burke has no clue. Gas & go is all he knows.
5) Most of the horses the burkes buy privately are from trainers who developed the horse. That is the hard job. They all can't be complete idiots...right? None are capable of making the horses go as fast as the Burkes. That is to funny...right?
Might want to take that coletta line out of there, He could single handidly go 15 to 20 seconds slower just by holding the lines.....but i get your point |
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russel rash
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« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2012, 10:52:58 PM » |
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Burke horses take a few months to crash & Pena's crash in 1 to 2 weeks. A cheater is a cheater know matter how you dress it up.
1) The Burke pole smokers defend the creep no matter what.
2) No trainers don't improve horses 15-20 lengths off Coletta everyday. That is a BS excuse.
3) Trainers with a clue don't train their star in 1:49 with their lardass in the bike. Mr. Miyagi that would be a 1:46 mile with Palone...right? Sweet Lou can only finish 5th in 1:48:3. Where was the 3 second improvement to Palone?
4) Burke does not make changes until the Adios. Another great line proving Burke has no clue. Gas & go is all he knows.
5) Most of the horses the burkes buy privately are from trainers who developed the horse. That is the hard job. They all can't be complete idiots...right? None are capable of making the horses go as fast as the Burkes. That is to funny...right?
obviously you have a position on burke but if he trains the horse in 49 that makes him a bad trainer how?taking a horse off of coleeta will improve the horse a lot,sorry but i think most people know that. this horse that we are talking about made 3 very mediocre starts before being dropped to 15 claimer and running off .i dont think this can be classified as immediate turnaround.i have seen no evidence of burkes tailing off in 2 months.burkes have had a very high rate of success keeping horses good for a long time.they also have had many horses claimed from them that go right on and improve,unlike pena. you are certainly entitled to your opinion. |
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jks best
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« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2012, 12:11:20 AM » |
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obviously you have a position on burke but if he trains the horse in 49 that makes him a bad trainer how?
Who trains a horse in 1:49? Add in the trainer in the bike. That is a 3 second allowance going to Palone...by Burke lover standards. RR you don't see anything wrong with this? C'mon RR you got to admit it is comical. Ron explaining how they had 3 stopwatches on SL & not realizing how dumb he sounded. |
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doubledigetman
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« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2012, 12:16:41 AM » |
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That is a 3 second allowance going to Palone...by Burke lover standards.
Another stupid post that holds no merit . |
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Provenus1
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« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2012, 07:23:20 AM » |
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Those of you who supported the fact that this horse went that fast without juice last week, how do you justify him going in 1:53 this week on a fast track in the 30k claiming race? If you factor in the sloppy track and 1 second allowance, that is over 3 seconds slower this week than what he did last week.
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yeast
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« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2012, 10:56:04 AM » |
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Those of you who supported the fact that this horse went that fast without juice last week, how do you justify him going in 1:53 this week on a fast track in the 30k claiming race? If you factor in the sloppy track and 1 second allowance, that is over 3 seconds slower this week than what he did last week.
The horse was a runaway winner in a 15 claimer last week. Obviously the class jump was too much for the horse . The 30 claimers werent going to let this horse have his own way. Class is way more important than time and this is just one example. |
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Provenus1
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« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2012, 12:42:08 PM » |
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Actually, they did let him have his own way. He left from his post and was leading the entire race until they straightened out for home and he went back through the field.
Race 1 10/9 The Meadows.
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yeast
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« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2012, 01:16:45 PM » |
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Actually, they did let him have his own way. He left from his post and was leading the entire race until they straightened out for home and he went back through the field.
Race 1 10/9 The Meadows.
Watch the race again he got parked out until after the quarter before he got the lead. Then Tony Halls horse came first over past the half and hounded him until the horse gave way halfway down the lane. After he was passed Palones horse just gave up. The horse beat up on 12 claimers last week . When a better horse challenged him this week he spit the bit. |
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ThePaceMaker
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« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2012, 06:23:42 PM » |
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THEY DO IT WITH NEEDLES
Chinese acupuncture works wonders |
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jks best
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« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2012, 08:33:54 PM » |
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The horse was a runaway winner in a 15 claimer last week. Obviously the class jump was too much for the horse . The 30 claimers werent going to let this horse have his own way. Class is way more important than time and this is just one example.
Isn't classification one of the Burkes keys to success? |
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Juicejunkies
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« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2012, 09:09:48 PM » |
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Isn't classification one of the Burkes keys to success?
Very good classifiers. At least that is what they use as there excuse when they got there steeds loaded for bear. Or bar shoes. Or hay soaked with groom urine. They have a list longer then my son at Christmas time to explain their success. |
Everything I say is to be considered opinion, not fact. Please verify with outside sources all comments and statements made by me.
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yeast
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« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2012, 12:51:44 AM » |
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Very good classifiers. At least that is what they use as there excuse when they got there steeds loaded for bear.
Or bar shoes.
Or hay soaked with groom urine.
They have a list longer then my son at Christmas time to explain their success.
They got a lot of partners Pena Coleman Brainard Green Gregory Pellogreno Holtzman Oakes Adams . Just ones that I can think of off the top of my head. |
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No Gate Speed
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« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2012, 07:58:40 PM » |
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The track was listed as 1 second off. So in that case, on a regular track you can equate that to 149.4. I'm sorry, I have been watching the meadows for years and never seen a horse even get close to 150 in any claiming race all the way up to the 30 claimers let alone a 15 claimer.
Lotsa Power? Multiple times if my memory isnt to hazy |
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