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Author Topic: Pool Manipulation  (Read 4383 times)
TKs Skipper
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« Reply #100 on: October 05, 2012, 08:48:56 AM »

Of course everyone sees the odds fluctuations. Often times sizeable. Small pools. Majority of money comes late and up to 20 sec transmission time at some tracks. The money bet in the last 20 seconds before the race is closed...will not reflect in the odds until 20 seconds after the pools close
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #101 on: October 05, 2012, 08:56:57 AM »

why bother trying to explain--only about a dozen of us see it

either you see it or you dont

we can leave it at that

And have you reported this to the Attorneys General of the states involved?
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Yimmy
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« Reply #102 on: October 05, 2012, 08:58:07 AM »

Of course everyone sees the odds fluctuations. Often times sizeable. Small pools. Majority of money comes late and up to 20 sec transmission time at some tracks. The money bet in the last 20 seconds before the race is closed...will not reflect in the odds until 20 seconds after the pools close

"This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes."
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newjackcity
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« Reply #103 on: October 05, 2012, 09:03:56 AM »

So, since there are at least 80 minutes between races(hyperbole but close), close the wagering 1 minute prior to actual post time.
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TKs Skipper
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« Reply #104 on: October 05, 2012, 09:05:08 AM »

Apply for a job within a mutuel dept yim. You will learn all this stuff
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Yimmy
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« Reply #105 on: October 05, 2012, 09:21:35 AM »

Gee, I learned much of what I needed to know from watching races (quarter-horse and very short sprints) at Ruidoso.  If this quote-unquote 20-second rule were fixed in stone, you'd have odds-changes there not only toward the end of races, but in some cases after their completion.

But they don't.  Not one. 

Gee, I wonder why... 
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #106 on: October 05, 2012, 09:22:49 AM »

In a $2500 win pool with a 20% takeout, a 2-5 horse would have $1428 wagered on him.

If $708 of that $1428 were to be cancelled, the 2-5 horse would become a 1-1 horse.

The win pool was $6000. No clue where this $2500 figure was arrived at. Freehold never gets anything that low
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #107 on: October 05, 2012, 09:23:47 AM »

And have you reported this to the Attorneys General of the states involved?

No, I'll let you have the honor
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TKs Skipper
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« Reply #108 on: October 05, 2012, 09:28:37 AM »

Gee, I learned much of what I needed to know from watching races (quarter-horse and very short sprints) at Ruidoso.  If this quote-unquote 20-second rule were fixed in stone, you'd have odds-changes there not only toward the end of races, but in some cases after their completion.

But they don't.  Not one. 

Gee, I wonder why...

Don't know anything about the quarters. Maybe find a quarter website to discuss? Any track I've ever worked for did not take any quarter action. Maybe the pools close earlier there? No idea
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Yimmy
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« Reply #109 on: October 05, 2012, 09:29:07 AM »

I have seen many people speeding dangerously on the roadway, but I have never reported any of them to the police.

Ergo, they weren't in fact speeding?  head shake
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #110 on: October 05, 2012, 09:29:55 AM »

So, since there are at least 80 minutes between races(hyperbole but close), close the wagering 1 minute prior to actual post time.

Sorry, that would make too much sense.
Of course, I hear the argument that something like that costs them a fortune because people bet at the last second no matter when the pools close. In other words, closing early would shut people out. If that were true they would just have to adapt and bet on time. Like you say, its not too difficult with all the time you have. Final odds should be locked and loaded PRIOR to the race. Then whats the excuse ? Sounds silly, but you would know your win price before the race---a very novel idea. But again anything pertaining to logic doesnt wash with these guys. And they wonder why there is no more game
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Yimmy
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« Reply #111 on: October 05, 2012, 09:30:23 AM »

"Maybe the pools close earlier there?"

AHA!!!  GIVE THE MAN A CIGAR!!

It is DOABLE. The powers that be just refuse to do it.
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #112 on: October 05, 2012, 09:39:04 AM »

"Maybe the pools close earlier there?"

AHA!!!  GIVE THE MAN A CIGAR!!

It is DOABLE. The powers that be just refuse to do it.

Well, Yimmy someone got something right
And you mentioned this same thing months ago. Sadly , it occurs everywhere else.
If the money takes 20 seconds or more to show up, why dont the odds change after the race at the quarters. Based on these theories , they should--but dont. Why not ?---because as the man just said , they can lock things down when they want to.  Basically  that just proves the the fact that Open Windows do in fact exist.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #113 on: October 05, 2012, 09:43:29 AM »

Well, the problem with all this theorizing is the notion that some outfit offering gambling to the public might offer special perks to really big players.

And of course, we all know this never happens.   maroon maroon
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hungry
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« Reply #114 on: October 05, 2012, 10:02:56 AM »

"Maybe the pools close earlier there?"

AHA!!!  GIVE THE MAN A CIGAR!!

It is DOABLE. The powers that be just refuse to do it.

Why close the pools early? Why not just close them at 'off time' for everyone.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #115 on: October 05, 2012, 10:10:05 AM »

Because that's what they're supposedly doing NOW, and it ain't exactly working. 

If this inescapable 20-second delay is factual, then, yes, the pools should be closed at least 20 seconds early.  Capisce?
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Croft
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« Reply #116 on: October 05, 2012, 10:25:05 AM »

The win pool was $6000. No clue where this $2500 figure was arrived at. Freehold never gets anything that low

In a $6000 win pool with a 20% takeout, a 2-5 horse would have $3428 wagered on him.

If $1713 of that $3428 were to be cancelled, the 2-5 horse would become a 1-1 horse.
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hungry
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« Reply #117 on: October 05, 2012, 10:37:13 AM »

Because that's what they're supposedly doing NOW, and it ain't exactly working. 

If this inescapable 20-second delay is factual, then, yes, the pools should be closed at least 20 seconds early.  Capisce?

So, if its not working, why not fix it?
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TKs Skipper
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« Reply #118 on: October 05, 2012, 10:37:53 AM »

Because that's what they're supposedly doing NOW, and it ain't exactly working. 

If this inescapable 20-second delay is factual, then, yes, the pools should be closed at least 20 seconds early.  Capisce?
[/quot

20 seconds is the most you will see. On average its 15 sec. Call the tote co at your wagering facility and they will confirm for you
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #119 on: October 05, 2012, 10:44:48 AM »

In a $6000 win pool with a 20% takeout, a 2-5 horse would have $3428 wagered on him.

If $1713 of that $3428 were to be cancelled, the 2-5 horse would become a 1-1 horse.


And those odds changed well after the first quarter so its fairly safe to assume the money was pulled out of the pool causing that odds change--- and the odds on the next "contender "  went from 4-1 to 7-5. This had to take place well into the running oft he race. No other way this could have happened . The horse broke approaching the first quarter station. This has very little to do with odds cycles as I so often here. Its more like cheating and not much more
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coldpunch
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« Reply #120 on: October 05, 2012, 11:03:39 AM »

"This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes."

 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

priceless
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FVRedhot
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« Reply #121 on: October 05, 2012, 11:54:57 AM »

For people that watch 1000's of races, as if that is a lot, I find it amazing that near the quarter pole odd changes have gone unnoticed.  In addition, I find it more astounding that those watching those 1000+ races, again, what is that a month I hope, have not noticed when they place a wager there is a lag between when the teller hits the little button and when it appears in the pools.  Test it out, you might be surprised.   Is it that hard to imagine that if it takes 20 seconds for your money to show up with 6 minutes to post, that bets made 1 second before "go" might also take 20 seconds to show up? 

Do all those that complain continue to go to the store that "phantom" bags their item?  How many times would it take you to stop going to Big Lots if every other time you checked out they took your money yet did not give you your items?  For people that like to think they are clever, well, just take that at face value.
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FVRedhot
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« Reply #122 on: October 05, 2012, 12:08:10 PM »

I guess the open window guys were out to lunch for Freehold's first 2 races.

In Race 2 the 3 hrose went from 6/5 to 4/5 in the final click, but only after he made a break within one second of the start.

In Race 1 Manzi on the 5 went from 3/5 to 1/5 in the final click despite getting away a sluggish 5th within 8 seconds of the start.  I'm not sure Manzi has won a race from 5th at Freehold since '07 (in case you didn't know, that is merely an exaggeration of a fact), so clearly they were either missing or out to lunch.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #123 on: October 05, 2012, 12:18:56 PM »

For people that watch 1000's of races, as if that is a lot, I find it amazing that near the quarter pole odd changes have gone unnoticed.  In addition, I find it more astounding that those watching those 1000+ races, again, what is that a month I hope, have not noticed when they place a wager there is a lag between when the teller hits the little button and when it appears in the pools.  Test it out, you might be surprised.   Is it that hard to imagine that if it takes 20 seconds for your money to show up with 6 minutes to post, that bets made 1 second before "go" might also take 20 seconds to show up? 


"Wall?  Hello, wall.  How are you?"

If the 20-second delay is inevitable, then apparently time moves MUCH FASTER in the state of New Mexico. 

This would have doubtless been Einstein's Super-Special Theory Of Relativity if he'd been a gambler.  head shake 
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FVRedhot
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« Reply #124 on: October 05, 2012, 12:27:06 PM »

So it is your position that the moment a bet is placed it is reflected on the tote board?  Hell, I'll even give you a 5 second window (pun intended).  Is that what you know to be fact?  If it is, then maybe you would like to place a small wager.  I will fly you to a track we both can attend.  I will give you $200 to place on horse X to win, and we will see when that wager is reflected on the tote board.  I will cover all your expenses and give you $1000, however, if you are not correct with those witty little quips and it does indeed take more than 5 seconds to show up, I would ask that you reimburse me the expenses and give me $1000. 

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