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Author Topic: Pool Manipulation  (Read 5502 times)
HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2012, 07:37:46 AM »

gatepunchers are most effective on the 1/2 mile ovals--as the first turn is critical and the positioning in the first quarter dictates how these guys wager--its not going to happen as much on the bigger tracks because early position isnt nearly as critical--what is so hard to fathom?--why bring Mohawk into the converstaion?--nobody said every race and at every track is bet after the turn--but at freehold, northfield, yonkers, harrington--it is blatant--public larceny and the fleeecing of america

why do i have to explain why they do it more on the half?--isnt it so obvious why the small tracks are known havens for this activity?--is it that hard to comprehend?--at freehold--the way the turn comes up on you immediately--and with the banking--is considered that toughest 100 yards in harness racing--and 85-90% of the breaks occur on the first turn--so if a track will alllow three venues to gatepunch(and once again for the millionth time--the bets are coming from a guy in lexington, harrington and a dog track in florida) after the first turn to a few--then its party time--if i could bet after the first quarter i would--and would make money doing it--

60% of freeholds handle comes in after the first turn--and all of this "tote delay" and simulcast delay BS is nonsense--and i know this because i watched every click on every pool there for years--so dont tell me about whats going on there

to suggest this happens @ Mohawk shows the previous mentioned "light years" over your head comment--now when there is a breaker after the fair start pole there--i am sure it happens on a smaller scale--and as JJ points out astutely--the canadian pools are closed moments prior to ous here in the states

what bother me is why this must be constantly dumbed down--over and over and over again--and then i get a Mohawk comment that is totally irrelevant and i get"thats what you say when you cant answer"

you Sir-TK Skipper--just dont understand and are clueless

You are calling someone else clueless....

Do you just make shit up?

First off there is NO MORE GATE CALLING ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES all races are now on the DISH Network EVERYWHERE and on a delay of a minimum of 5 seconds....closer to 8

60% of Freeholds handle comes in after the first turn......Is that documented? Can you show anyone any evidence of this number that you just plucked out of the clear blur sky?

I believe that you are the person who said its going on in the "High Roller's Room" at Harrington......WHICH DOES NOT EXIST.....Mythical betting going on in a mythical room that doesn't exist? Do you still believe in Santa Claus, The Tooth Fairy, Monsters under your bed?

Please find another reason that you can't win this one is tired and worn out.....and a LIE

You already have proven yourself to be a fool over and over......simply because you think all of this is going on and continue to actually bet on the races......oh yeah you love the game so much you can't help it.....you're such a "fan" of the game that everything you post about it is negative......

Freehold never had a bell before they went to DISH and never had any handle to attract anyone to waste their time trying to "gate punch" anyway

Maywood has been cutting off 5 seconds before the race for years.....Now they cut off in the turn before the start......Nobody has called the gate there for years

Northfield you at least had a slight chance to get a small push off the gate before they went on DISH...Now its -6 seconds

Yonkers had a decent bell (At Dover, Harrington and the Red Mile only) since they were the only tracks getting the races on the C-band satellite. everyone else has been on dish for years......Now Yonkers is -3 seconds.....You get more time there then anywhere else but there is no gate punch at all, you might get an extra 2 seconds to catch a breaker
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 07:40:53 AM by HarnessFanDE » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2012, 07:47:31 AM »

What credentials do you have?
I use dish and can bet right up to the gate folding at many tracks you list on delay.
I can't bet past the start but right up to it for sure.
Same with cancels.  I can cancel up to the same point.   And do it frequently.



You are calling someone else clueless....

Do you just make shit up?

First off there is NO MORE GATE CALLING ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES all races are now on the DISH Network EVERYWHERE and on a delay of a minimum of 5 seconds....closer to 8

60% of Freeholds handle comes in after the first turn......Is that documented? Can you show anyone any evidence of this number that you just plucked out of the clear blur sky?

I believe that you are the person who said its going on in the "High Roller's Room" at Harrington......WHICH DOES NOT EXIST.....Mythical betting going on in a mythical room that doesn't exist? Do you still believe in Santa Claus, The Tooth Fairy, Monsters under your bed?

Please find another reason that you can't win this one is tired and worn out.....and a LIE

You already have proven yourself to be a fool over and over......simply because you think all of this is going on and continue to actually bet on the races......oh yeah you love the game so much you can't help it.....you're such a "fan" of the game that everything you post about it is negative......

Freehold never had a bell before they went to DISH and never had any handle to attract anyone to waste their time trying to "gate punch" anyway

Maywood has been cutting off 5 seconds before the race for years.....Now they cut off in the turn before the start......Nobody has called the gate there for years

Northfield you at least had a slight chance to get a small push off the gate before they went on DISH...Now its -6 seconds

Yonkers had a decent bell (At Dover, Harrington and the Red Mile only) since they were the only tracks getting the races on the C-band satellite. everyone else has been on dish for years......Now Yonkers is -3 seconds.....You get more time there then anywhere else but there is no gate punch at all, you might get an extra 2 seconds to catch a breaker
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Yonkers1
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« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2012, 08:05:32 AM »

My site definitely shuts me off many seconds before the start
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2012, 08:47:37 AM »

My site definitely shuts me off many seconds before the start

And so does the instigator or if you prefer liar's site....I have dish network in my house too you cant bet anywhere near the gate folding anywhere....At home its about -8 seconds at the simulcast facility its -3 through -8......Batavia and Maywood lock before they even hit the straightaway.....T-Breds lock with about 2 or 3 horses to load.....The C-bands will be back at Dover/Harrington and Red Mile in 45 days......Once Roberts decides how much money they want as graft payment to keep them on and they upgrade their wiring to carry the faster signal.....I occasionally bet after the race starts at home thru an offshore (since they aren't tied into the PM system) sometimes they lag a few seconds in locking a race
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« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2012, 08:54:56 AM »

I occasionally bet after the race starts at home thru an offshore (since they aren't tied into the PM system)
Betting offshore and not being "tied into the PM system" means horsemen get f*cked...hope you enjoy your rebates as you screw us...what are you going to bet after you help kill racing...I must admit it takes balls to come on a sight frequented by horsemen and brag about taking food off their table...
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« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2012, 09:02:15 AM »

Betting offshore and not being "tied into the PM system" means horsemen get f*cked...hope you enjoy your rebates as you screw us...what are you going to bet after you help kill racing...I must admit it takes balls to come on a sight frequented by horsemen and brag about taking food off their table...

He's a blowhard, as evidenced by his posts.
Only bets 2 dollars a race, you aren't missing much.
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TKs Skipper
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« Reply #56 on: October 03, 2012, 09:54:43 AM »

So when horses don't leave at Mohawk, do the open window people crush odds of horses sitting near the back?

Thanks again for the insults. Stay classy
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yeast
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« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2012, 10:36:49 AM »

He's a blowhard, as evidenced by his posts.
Only bets 2 dollars a race, you aren't missing much.
This coming from an guy with 12000 posts mostly drivel. Delewares posts whether you agree with his opinion or not are all talking about racing not slamming other people.
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2012, 01:44:36 PM »

HE NEVER SAID YOU CAN DO THIS AT HOME ON DISH NETWORK. OF COURSE YOU DONT GET THAT PRIVILEGE
BELIEVE WHAT YOU WILL
IF THEY DONT ALLOW IT, THERE WILL BE NO POOLS AT ALL BECAUSE THATS WHO'S MAKING YOUR POOLS WHAT THEY ARE. EVERYONE ELSE LEFT EXCEPT FOR THE OPEN WINDOW GUYS. AND CAN YOU BLAME THOSE WHO HAVE HAD ENOUGH.


ITS PRETTY WELL DOCUMENTED OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS. BUT BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT. AND GOOD LUCK ON YOUR FRONTUNNERS GETTING THEIR ODDS SLICED IN HALF AFTER THEY LEAVE

ODD COINCIDENCE AT ALL TRACKS---PREDOMINANTLY THE SMALL ONES. INSTEAD OF RANTING, WATCH A RACE ONCE IN A WHILE. PRETTY HARD TO MISS IT
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 01:47:02 PM by Central Park West » Report to moderator   Logged
TKs Skipper
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« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2012, 03:15:41 PM »

I have never once bet after the start of a race and I do extremely well betting Yonkers. No complaints here
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coldpunch
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« Reply #60 on: October 03, 2012, 09:10:31 PM »

HE NEVER SAID YOU CAN DO THIS AT HOME ON DISH NETWORK. OF COURSE YOU DONT GET THAT PRIVILEGE
BELIEVE WHAT YOU WILL
IF THEY DONT ALLOW IT, THERE WILL BE NO POOLS AT ALL BECAUSE THATS WHO'S MAKING YOUR POOLS WHAT THEY ARE. EVERYONE ELSE LEFT EXCEPT FOR THE OPEN WINDOW GUYS. AND CAN YOU BLAME THOSE WHO HAVE HAD ENOUGH.


ITS PRETTY WELL DOCUMENTED OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS. BUT BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT. AND GOOD LUCK ON YOUR FRONTUNNERS GETTING THEIR ODDS SLICED IN HALF AFTER THEY LEAVE

ODD COINCIDENCE AT ALL TRACKS---PREDOMINANTLY THE SMALL ONES. INSTEAD OF RANTING, WATCH A RACE ONCE IN A WHILE. PRETTY HARD TO MISS IT

well said--of course this doesnt happen at the host track or by anybody at home w Dish--and we never said it did--so bringing this whole Dish discussion to the table is irrelevant

OK--Mr De Harness Fan--there is NO high rollers room at harrington--and i was wrong to assume that--but the point is that Harrington is one of the big three that are INFAMOUS for where the bets that are considered gatepunch money is sent from--probably some Parham type program or Parham himself--but the fact is a dog track in florida, somewhere in lexington and somewhere in harrrington--but you continue to say i make chit up and continue to harp on this high rollers room over and over again and its irrelevant--but somewhere in that town it is allowed to go in late

i know a guy who is a pinhooker and professional gambler and knows the guy in lexington that does this and he has been doing it since 1999

try watching some races and pools and get off your Dish network non issue and your obsession with the non high rollers room at harrington

i have already elaborated that i watched pools at freehold like nurses watch premature babies for years and 60% is a consistent numper

may all your leavers get pounded--you're welcome
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FVRedhot
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« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2012, 09:50:09 PM »

Like it or not, HarnessDE is pretty much spot on with what was said.

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coldpunch
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« Reply #62 on: October 03, 2012, 09:57:02 PM »

Like it or not, HarnessDE is pretty much spot on with what was said.



everything he said about Dish is correct

your cluelessness is equivalent to his if you think everything is honest as far as gatepunchging goes
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FVRedhot
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« Reply #63 on: October 03, 2012, 10:47:57 PM »

I guess we need to define honesty of gatepunching.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 11:06:36 PM by FVRedhot » Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2012, 10:50:09 PM »

And so does the instigator or if you prefer liar's site....I have dish network in my house too you cant bet anywhere near the gate folding anywhere

What about if you are actually at the track in question?
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« Reply #65 on: October 03, 2012, 10:53:40 PM »

being at the track in question is the key in the modern uplink delay era.  Those people do have a few second edge over the simulcast and home viewer. 
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« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2012, 08:51:49 AM »

If you know your stuff, being at the track is ALWAYS better than not.
I can't add anything about the "open window" stuff. Don't know anything about it.
However, "if" the host track is closing all pools at the "off" time, or at or just before the gate opens, how is late money going into the pools if it wasn't headed for those pools before they closed?
I understand there is a necessary lag time to get all of the locations into the pools, but if, for example, a race goes "off" at 10:00PM, and the pools lock at 10:00PM, how would money at a satellite location that is time stamped as 10:00:18(seconds) get in, unless they are somehow going backwards with the time stamp on the computers that are accepting the bets at these tracks?
If that is what is happening, then it's just plain criminal, and nobody should be betting on this, period.
If it were discovered that this is happening, I would think the handle would fall of to near zero.
The computer program guys would be trying to steal each others money. No public money whatsoever..
I have no dog in this fight at all, and I'm not trying to argue. I simply don't know.
What I do know is that this topic, whether real or perceived, is yet another nail in the coffin of harness racing. Along with the drug stuff and the "super" trainers.
As far as the "fleecing of America " comment, Freehold handles nothing, and less than 10 years ago.
America doesn't care about this game anymore, and maybe for good reason...
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« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2012, 09:10:02 AM »

I never said I can bet past the gate but right up till those wings begin to fold.

At least at vernon downs.

Check it out tonight.

I am roughly 20 seconds ahead of the internet feed.
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« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2012, 09:23:55 AM »

Its very easy to find evidence that does not support this "open window theory".......I have watched thousands of replays at these tracks and the majority of the time the odds of the winning horse goes up after the start.......you guys can cry all you want but I gave out several of those examples on another site and these fools still wouldnt admit they are wrong.......Race 1 Freehold saturday the winner led the whole mile.....before the race starts his odds are 1-1 final odds 6-5.....the 3 horse got away 3rd and stayed there the entire mile, as the race starts he is 7/5 and his final odds were 4-5.......this happens way more often then a horse going down in odds and the proof is there for all to see......these guys just like to rant and punch there keyboard with no factual evidence to back their claims
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« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2012, 09:24:48 AM »

If that is true, it's better than getting closed off 10-15 seconds to the "off" time.
This is different than an open window and betting into the first turn..
Yours could be a legal edge, the premium for being on track.
The other is criminal...
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« Reply #70 on: October 04, 2012, 10:41:18 AM »

Its very easy to find evidence that does not support this "open window theory".......I have watched thousands of replays at these tracks and the majority of the time the odds of the winning horse goes up after the start.......you guys can cry all you want but I gave out several of those examples on another site and these fools still wouldnt admit they are wrong.......Race 1 Freehold saturday the winner led the whole mile.....before the race starts his odds are 1-1 final odds 6-5.....the 3 horse got away 3rd and stayed there the entire mile, as the race starts he is 7/5 and his final odds were 4-5.......this happens way more often then a horse going down in odds and the proof is there for all to see......these guys just like to rant and punch there keyboard with no factual evidence to back their claims

Another poster that is spot on. 

Merely having a couple of machines in front of you with various action queued in and selecting which to send at the very last minute is really not that big of a deal. 
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« Reply #71 on: October 04, 2012, 10:53:03 AM »

these guys just like to rant and punch there keyboard with no factual evidence to back their claims

A truer statement may not have been uttered.  The worst part about it is that the VAST majority of Americans are rather stupid and are completely gullible.  Some of these people read/hear things like the rants of some and from there they panic and form baseless opinions that only lead to more problems/lies.  Just look at the average election we witness each fall.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #72 on: October 04, 2012, 10:58:16 AM »

I never said I can bet past the gate but right up till those wings begin to fold.

At least at vernon downs.

Check it out tonight.

I am roughly 20 seconds ahead of the internet feed.

And that makes perfect sense, if you are operating in real time at the track, and everyone else is seeing the races on that satellite + Internet delay.
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« Reply #73 on: October 04, 2012, 11:05:59 AM »

And that makes perfect sense, if you are operating in real time at the track, and everyone else is seeing the races on that satellite + Internet delay.

The satellite feed is not as big of a delay as made out to be by HarnessFanDE.
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« Reply #74 on: October 04, 2012, 11:15:01 AM »

"aNeY-one who Beleave's in oPan WindOze is a stOopit-Hed, i Saw a race eight "Months" ago wear the "Winner" wented UP in Price, this make'S a disProoveMent of the hole THEARY!!"  maroon maroon maroon maroon maroon maroon maroon maroon maroon



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