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Author Topic: Pool Manipulation  (Read 5567 times)
Blue Chip55
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« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2012, 09:05:46 AM »

  i am not disputing the open window or drugs as reasons for the sports decline
imo once the monopoly on betting was busted tracks were at a loss when it came to customer service
having tvg as the 1st adw is a perfect example
drugs and windows are just the last straw


Well that actually does make sense. Cant argue with that
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2012, 09:06:05 AM »

Nope----I make a few bets when I love something---but they cant open window me on closers, so that what I play---harder to win---but I get value. TOL's odds went up in the race you speak of---like all closers

Every frontrunner gets slammed---Ever notice ?
I dont lie by the way

first you say you " don't " bet harness racing now you say you do
which one shall we believe ?
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2012, 09:08:17 AM »

Looks he just got here to
Juice too sharp for you
Give up already

looks like your loyalty has led you astray
keep trying though you are closer than you think
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coldpunch
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« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2012, 09:16:13 AM »

IT LOOKS LIKE THEY FOUND SOME PLACE TO BET OFF-SHORE

Pig has nailed it

this happens @ Thistledown/Beulah occasionally--somebody intentionally puts win bets on horses w no shot--then they pound them offshore

more pool manipulation can be seeen every night @ Mountaineer--where a punter puts $5k to win on his horse making him look 1-9--then in the gate--he yanks half of it back out and frequently gets 4-5 or 1-1

i am an oddsboard watcher and i have time on my hands--this originally started @ Keystone back in the early 80s--they would pick race 3--usually a MSW race with a NYRA shipper who appears 1-5 on paper--yet fishy money comes in on rats and the horse pays $4.40

this case, as De Harness Fan mentioned--was NOT an open window--but intentional betting on the others to inflate the winners price

and for those who think the open window doesnt exist--how ignorant can you be?
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Old and Slow
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« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2012, 09:18:48 AM »

I have played with about 20 different offshore places and don't remember any of them taking Bangor....

Thanks for helping kill the game that many of us love. sarcasm

All in the name of selfish, self-centered REBATES. censor
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2012, 09:21:12 AM »

Pig has nailed it

this happens @ Thistledown/Beulah occasionally--somebody intentionally puts win bets on horses w no shot--then they pound them offshore

more pool manipulation can be seeen every night @ Mountaineer--where a punter puts $5k to win on his horse making him look 1-9--then in the gate--he yanks half of it back out and frequently gets 4-5 or 1-1

i am an oddsboard watcher and i have time on my hands--this originally started @ Keystone back in the early 80s--they would pick race 3--usually a MSW race with a NYRA shipper who appears 1-5 on paper--yet fishy money comes in on rats and the horse pays $4.40

this case, as De Harness Fan mentioned--was NOT an open window--but intentional betting on the others to inflate the winners price

and for those who think the open window doesnt exist--how ignorant can you be?

I'll tell you Punch,  all of this really gives the game of raciing high marks in the integrity department. It has becaome a total joke and continues to get worse every which way imaginable. And so many still dont get it. Incredible
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coldpunch
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« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2012, 09:28:38 AM »

I'll tell you Punch,  all of this really gives the game of raciing high marks in the integrity department. It has becaome a total joke and continues to get worse every which way imaginable. And so many still dont get it. Incredible

if exchange wagering was alowed to take over and replace the antiquated pari mutuel betting--much of this would go away--exchanges are chock full of bookmakers and i never met a bookie who lost--so lets go "British" and The Parhams would be adversely affected

you sre so, so correct CPW--you were one of the first ones to see what was going on--much like the movie "They Live" starrring Roddy Piper--a few had special glasses who could really see what was going on--and the rest were oblivious

thanks for lending me a pair of those glasses back in 2010
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TheRedMile
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« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2012, 09:46:40 AM »

wonderig if you know whether more monies are bet via exchange or thru the windows overseas ?
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coldpunch
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« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2012, 09:50:53 AM »

wonderig if you know whether more monies are bet via exchange or thru the windows overseas ?

i honestly dont know--but its more than you would think

harness racing isnt a part of the markets--but it could be
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2012, 02:47:41 PM »

you love being robbed ?

No not one bit !

I have been robbed more times by trainers than pools and trainers I hired!
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TKs Skipper
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« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2012, 05:12:44 PM »

is the open window theory reversed at mohawk where its impossible to win on the front end?
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stone162
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« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2012, 05:16:28 PM »

is the open window theory reversed at mohawk where its impossible to win on the front end?

They said it about Yonkers too and when proof and facts were shown they still wouldnt admit they were wrong...........these types never can be wrong, in their opinion, and surely would never admit it
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pigland1
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« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2012, 05:19:18 PM »

They said it about Yonkers too and when proof and facts were shown they still wouldnt admit they were wrong...........these types never can be wrong, in their opinion, and surely would never admit it
AGREE
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coldpunch
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« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2012, 06:34:13 PM »

is the open window theory reversed at mohawk where its impossible to win on the front end?

what kind if idiotic post is this?

 hijack
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2012, 06:38:25 PM »

what kind if idiotic post is this?

 hijack

 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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TKs Skipper
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« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2012, 07:05:26 PM »

what kind if idiotic post is this?

 hijack

of course, when you cant answer, you post some b*llsh*t like this.....way to go
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coldpunch
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« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2012, 07:52:50 PM »

of course, when you cant answer, you post some b*llsh*t like this.....way to go

the whole concept is several light years over your head

i suggest you stick to the topics you can comprehend--i cant think of any but i am sure you can find one if you try real hard

we dont have the time to dumb it down for you
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2012, 07:56:11 PM »

the whole concept is several light years over your head

i suggest you stick to the topics you can comprehend--i cant think of any but i am sure you can find one if you try real hard

we dont have the time to dumb it down for you

Many light years over head CP   bang head
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TKs Skipper
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« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2012, 08:09:05 PM »

the whole concept is several light years over your head

i suggest you stick to the topics you can comprehend--i cant think of any but i am sure you can find one if you try real hard

we dont have the time to dumb it down for you

again, you just cant answer the question. typical response
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TKs Skipper
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« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2012, 08:11:01 PM »

Many light years over head CP   bang head

who are you....cold punch's parrot? jesus christ, get some originality
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the exactorman
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« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2012, 08:30:05 PM »

Its always amazing to me that people have to dispute pool manipulation or gate punching. I have been saying this for years. Coldpunch and CPW obviously watch 1000's of races a week as i do. As I have said before, the fact that this is going on, in fairness, does NOT NECESSARILY MAKE THEM WINNERS, however, i would like to see stats on how many times a horse in Harness racing wins from sitting in positions 1-2-3-4. Watch the odds on these horses 90% of the time drop. Of course in those instances were a race breaks down, and a non-figure horse comes from 3rd over into a 30.3 last quarter, that horses odds will be inflated. I dont complain too much when my horse is sitting 7th, gate opens he is 8-1, sweeps the field, I look at board and see 20-1. It is a FACT this goes on. Instead of arguing against facts watch 1000's of races over the course of months and you'll quickly see this goes on. Punch mentioned Mountaineer. That is the king track of money manipulation.
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TKs Skipper
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« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2012, 08:43:05 PM »

Its always amazing to me that people have to dispute pool manipulation or gate punching. I have been saying this for years. Coldpunch and CPW obviously watch 1000's of races a week as i do. As I have said before, the fact that this is going on, in fairness, does NOT NECESSARILY MAKE THEM WINNERS, however, i would like to see stats on how many times a horse in Harness racing wins from sitting in positions 1-2-3-4. Watch the odds on these horses 90% of the time drop. Of course in those instances were a race breaks down, and a non-figure horse comes from 3rd over into a 30.3 last quarter, that horses odds will be inflated. I dont complain too much when my horse is sitting 7th, gate opens he is 8-1, sweeps the field, I look at board and see 20-1. It is a FACT this goes on. Instead of arguing against facts watch 1000's of races over the course of months and you'll quickly see this goes on. Punch mentioned Mountaineer. That is the king track of money manipulation.

so, at mohawk where being near the front end can be a death wish, people still use the open window to place large win bets on the front runner(s)?

they do this even though they are losing money and betting horses in unfavorable positions?

can you answer these questions without insulting me?
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the exactorman
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« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2012, 09:00:44 PM »

so, at mohawk where being near the front end can be a death wish, people still use the open window to place large win bets on the front runner(s)?

they do this even though they are losing money and betting horses in unfavorable positions?

can you answer these questions without insulting me?
I will answer you, and of course wont insult you. I do not see it happen at Mohawk and Woodbine as regularly as it happens at many other tracks. I did not see it happen when I went to Flamboro, Grand River, and Georgean on a fairly regular basis either. I do see it at dozens of tracks, where positioning is vital to having a chance.
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Juicejunkies
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« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2012, 04:59:36 AM »

I will answer you, and of course wont insult you. I do not see it happen at Mohawk and Woodbine as regularly as it happens at many other tracks. I did not see it happen when I went to Flamboro, Grand River, and Georgean on a fairly regular basis either. I do see it at dozens of tracks, where positioning is vital to having a chance.

One other data point, Canada tracks close pools early.   Eliminating the chance.
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coldpunch
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« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2012, 06:45:19 AM »

so, at mohawk where being near the front end can be a death wish, people still use the open window to place large win bets on the front runner(s)?

they do this even though they are losing money and betting horses in unfavorable positions?

can you answer these questions without insulting me?

gatepunchers are most effective on the 1/2 mile ovals--as the first turn is critical and the positioning in the first quarter dictates how these guys wager--its not going to happen as much on the bigger tracks because early position isnt nearly as critical--what is so hard to fathom?--why bring Mohawk into the converstaion?--nobody said every race and at every track is bet after the turn--but at freehold, northfield, yonkers, harrington--it is blatant--public larceny and the fleeecing of america

why do i have to explain why they do it more on the half?--isnt it so obvious why the small tracks are known havens for this activity?--is it that hard to comprehend?--at freehold--the way the turn comes up on you immediately--and with the banking--is considered that toughest 100 yards in harness racing--and 85-90% of the breaks occur on the first turn--so if a track will alllow three venues to gatepunch(and once again for the millionth time--the bets are coming from a guy in lexington, harrington and a dog track in florida) after the first turn to a few--then its party time--if i could bet after the first quarter i would--and would make money doing it--

60% of freeholds handle comes in after the first turn--and all of this "tote delay" and simulcast delay BS is nonsense--and i know this because i watched every click on every pool there for years--so dont tell me about whats going on there

to suggest this happens @ Mohawk shows the previous mentioned "light years" over your head comment--now when there is a breaker after the fair start pole there--i am sure it happens on a smaller scale--and as JJ points out astutely--the canadian pools are closed moments prior to ous here in the states

what bother me is why this must be constantly dumbed down--over and over and over again--and then i get a Mohawk comment that is totally irrelevant and i get"thats what you say when you cant answer"

you Sir-TK Skipper--just dont understand and are clueless
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