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Author Topic: More Money Problems at Calder  (Read 3511 times)
Mary Ann
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« on: September 30, 2012, 07:18:18 PM »

It just seems like CDI never sleeps:

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/calder-to-apply-stabling-fee-during-non-live-racing-months-fhbpa-responds/
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2012, 07:30:58 PM »

I was wondering why I'd been running across so many oddly flattened nickles lately, and it just hit me that's because Mr. Evans and his stockholders have been squeezing them so hard.

Didn't they threaten something like this a few years ago?
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coldpunch
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2012, 08:42:32 PM »

Gulfstream(Mr Stronach)negotiated December away from Calder
Hialeah wants a foot in the door for a casino so they are applying for dates

CDI has deep pockets--but they wont spend it on Calder and are getting squeezed

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APCD Dan
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2012, 09:53:18 PM »

I was wondering why I'd been running across so many oddly flattened nickles lately, and it just hit me that's because Mr. Evans and his stockholders have been squeezing them so hard.

Didn't they threaten something like this a few years ago?

Seems to me that the last day of racing at AP was usually free admission, although I may be wrong.  Not this time, it was not fan appreciation time this year.  Also, Arlington had to make a ton on parking fees for the Ryder Cup visitors.
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2012, 10:18:39 PM »

I was just on Twitter and Ray Paulick reported on a dinner of the Thoroughbred Club of America where Penny Chenery was honored.  He said this:

"Ray Paulick‏@raypaulick

Penny Chenery tells other owners "If we love the industry, we need to promote it...This is a very special but fragile sport that we love."

With CDI's deep pockets, would it ever hurt them to do something in the best interests and support of the industry and fans? I don't think they really get it on how they've been alienating everyone but I know with horse players, the word is out on how ruthless they are and we don't see how they can be good for the sport.

At the OTB yesterday, I was talking to a horse owner who did have a horse entered at Arlington yesterday and I asked him what he thought of Mr. D. He said he didn't have a problem with him but he "doesn't like the way they operate".
 
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2012, 09:37:08 AM »

Seems to me that the last day of racing at AP was usually free admission, although I may be wrong.  Not this time, it was not fan appreciation time this year.

Choose one:

a) That was Saturday, when Beer Fest and the 2 oz. tasters was included in the price of your admission.
or
b) Blame the IRB for giving next year's dark days to Hawthorne. (Well, actually, blame CDI for goading them into that.)
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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2012, 05:37:11 PM »

Gulfstream(Mr Stronach)negotiated December away from Calder
Hialeah wants a foot in the door for a casino so they are applying for dates

CDI has deep pockets--but they wont spend it on Calder and are getting squeezed



  Brunetti get that place renovated?  If so...it was so run down, and cost a fortune...not spent as a hobby I'm sure.....he applying for a TB meet or yet another QH deal?  Used to be THE place down there...did a winter there myself, and it was magical....the Saratoga of the south.
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coldpunch
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2012, 05:48:02 PM »

  Brunetti get that place renovated?  If so...it was so run down, and cost a fortune...not spent as a hobby I'm sure.....he applying for a TB meet or yet another QH deal?  Used to be THE place down there...did a winter there myself, and it was magical....the Saratoga of the south.

they have run quarters-albeit a brief meet-for at least the last two years and are adamant about Tbreds--so yes-they are applying for Tbred dates

the whole idea is for gaming aka slots and/or a full blown casino and having a track seems to make lawmakers comfortable about having extra gambling

Calders product is poor ....and purse cuts.... and some betting after the gate breaks--along w inconsistent and fishy results is a part of the reason why Calder is frowned upon
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Pius soho
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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2012, 05:50:56 PM »

they have run quarters-albeit a brief meet-for at least the last two years and are adamant about Tbreds--so yes-they are applying for Tbred dates

the whole idea is for gaming aka slots and/or a full blown casino and having a track seems to make lawmakers comfortable about having extra gambling

Calders product is poor ....and purse cuts.... and some betting after the gate breaks--along w inconsistent and fishy results is a part of the reason why Calder is frowned upon

  Not to mention the new 10 bucks a day per stall rent, on top of the 5 bucks a day for tack rooms.....I did a summer at Calder many many years ago, and the dorms were clean and central A/C, ect....have no clue what it loks like these days...was a clean track.  I suspect the squeeze play is in full effect.....
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coldpunch
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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2012, 06:15:42 PM »

  Not to mention the new 10 bucks a day per stall rent, on top of the 5 bucks a day for tack rooms.....I did a summer at Calder many many years ago, and the dorms were clean and central A/C, ect....have no clue what it loks like these days...was a clean track.  I suspect the squeeze play is in full effect.....

i have never been--i am from new jersey but i know a guy who pinhooks and sneds many of his babies to David Vivian and specifically trains them over the famous Calder deep surface and says "they seem to get alot out of training over that track"

i see it closing down eventually and Gulfstream getting the bulk of the year round racing--but thats politics between Churchill, Stronach and the politics of florida--of which i know nothing

its a shame they are suddenly charging horsmen extra fees--but thats Churchill--they dont care
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Pius soho
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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2012, 06:29:22 PM »

i have never been--i am from new jersey but i know a guy who pinhooks and sneds many of his babies to David Vivian and specifically trains them over the famous Calder deep surface and says "they seem to get alot out of training over that track"

i see it closing down eventually and Gulfstream getting the bulk of the year round racing--but thats politics between Churchill, Stronach and the politics of florida--of which i know nothing

its a shame they are suddenly charging horsmen extra fees--but thats Churchill--they dont care

  I'm down here in FL...the arm wrestling has been going on for at least 20 years...fact.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2012, 06:31:43 PM »

i have never been--i am from new jersey but i know a guy who pinhooks and sneds many of his babies to David Vivian and specifically trains them over the famous Calder deep surface and says "they seem to get alot out of training over that track"

i see it closing down eventually and Gulfstream getting the bulk of the year round racing--but thats politics between Churchill, Stronach and the politics of florida--of which i know nothing

its a shame they are suddenly charging horsmen extra fees--but thats Churchill--they dont care

I think the real problem is Gulfstream doesn't pull its weight as far as leaving its backside open for training, free, during its downtime, and Churchill is tired of paying to train horses for GP's meet. That, and getting even for GP screwing them out of December.
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coldpunch
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2012, 09:00:00 PM »

I think the real problem is Gulfstream doesn't pull its weight as far as leaving its backside open for training, free, during its downtime, and Churchill is tired of paying to train horses for GP's meet. That, and getting even for GP screwing them out of December.

thats a good point--Stronach seems to be spending on Santa Anita only (now that Gulfstream has been remodeled--horribly...but thats another story)

Churchill, Magna and Hialeah now need to come to terms with the state and slice up racing dates/grant casino licenses, etc in a way that makes sense for everyone involved and for the future of racing--which is bleak at best
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2012, 10:05:11 PM »

thats a good point--Stronach seems to be spending on Santa Anita only (now that Gulfstream has been remodeled--horribly...but thats another story)

Stronach created Palm Meadows, where, as the story says, they charge $15 a day to train. If that's worth $15, Calder might as well be worth $10. 

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Churchill, Magna and Hialeah now need to come to terms with the state and slice up racing dates/grant casino licenses, etc in a way that makes sense for everyone involved and for the future of racing--which is bleak at best

Gulfstream should pick up at least half the stall rent tab at Calder during these 5 months.
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2012, 10:49:25 PM »

I don't see how you can trash Churchill for charging stall fees at Calder during NON LIVE RACING months.  Do you think that Hawthorne charged Midwest Thouroughbreds anything this summer, or just let them back there to be nice?  It costs the tracks money to keep the backside and track open for training.  Are they suppose to eat that cost?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2012, 11:01:11 PM »

I don't see how you can trash Churchill for charging stall fees at Calder during NON LIVE RACING months.  Do you think that Hawthorne charged Midwest Thouroughbreds anything this summer, or just let them back there to be nice?  It costs the tracks money to keep the backside and track open for training.  Are they suppose to eat that cost?

According to the story at the top, the Florida horsemen think so.

"Said FHBPA President Phil Combest:  ‘Conveniently, this out-of-blue announcement came a week after the deadline for submission of stall applications to Gulfstream Park and Palm Meadows.  And, of course, stabling at private facilities such as Payson Park has been reserved for the winter by northern horsemen.  Basically, Calder horsemen have nowhere to go.’"

Well, nowhere FREE, that is.
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2012, 11:30:01 PM »

It seems the money issue will really just be a wash for CDI as they plan to raise the purses if they don't have enough horses. CDI is just a bully and they like to make everyone else miserable, including horse racing fans, with all of their baloney. Do us all a favor, CDI, and get out of the sport. You really are not worth all of the trouble.

From the DRF article on Calder:

"Fast forward to April, White said, and suddenly both the horsemen and Calder have a new problem.
 
“You have to remember we’re opening almost a month earlier here now so we can’t count on the 2-year-olds to be ready to fill the races,” said White. “By charging this fee, they’ll be aggravating the problem with older horses that already existed and in my opinion would end up trying to open the meet with 500 empty stalls. And in the long run that will cost Churchill Downs (Inc.) money because of their inability to put on good racing.”
 
Marshall said he has already planned for that potential problem.
 
“There’s definitely a risk that we’ll lose some of our horses next year,” said Marshall. “But we’ve come up with measures to counter that risk including starting out next year’s meet at a higher purse level to hopefully motivate some of the northern based trainers at Gulfstream Park to stay around the area longer or even leave a second or third string with us on a permanent basis.”
 
White said he fears longer range effects of a stall fee.
 
“This whole issue will have an impact throughout the state because of the lifeline with the 2-year-olds between Calder and Ocala,” said White. “As the viability of racing at Calder continues to contract, farms in Ocala dependent on this place will begin to dry out and suddenly the fallout from all this goes well beyond just Calder and Churchill Downs.”

http://www.drf.com/news/calder-local-trainers-fear-stall-fees-will-drive-horses-out-florida

Look at the mess they are causing in Kentucky with requests for dates in September that Turfway normally would get:

http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-commission-tables-dates-requests-due-conflicting-submissions
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2012, 12:12:28 AM »

Bob Evans Churchill CEO said long ago something to the effect that, "the parimutuel market isn't growing so we have to increase our market share", so it should come as no surprise to anyone that they're out there trying to pooch/nickle and dime anyone and everyone else in the industry. It's all about $$$ for their shareholders ... and in particular their biggest. What's "good for racing" does not figure in. 
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« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2012, 12:41:07 AM »

I think there is an argument to be made that more dates for CD, even at the expense of Turfway is good for racing. If you hate CDI, you probably would never agree with that assessment, but CD would probably have bigger fields and larger handles than a corresponding date at Turfway.  Sometimes what is good for racing is also what's good for CDI.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2012, 12:55:43 AM »

I think there is an argument to be made that more dates for CD, even at the expense of Turfway is good for racing. If you hate CDI, you probably would never agree with that assessment, but CD would probably have bigger fields and larger handles than a corresponding date at Turfway.  Sometimes what is good for racing is also what's good for CDI.

Churchill September dates would certainly benefit Arlington. They would get the sloppy seconds of of the 10's of thousands of extra horses that would migrate to the midwest because of the lure of bigger CD purses.
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« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2012, 08:47:24 AM »

I think there is an argument to be made that more dates for CD, even at the expense of Turfway is good for racing. If you hate CDI, you probably would never agree with that assessment, but CD would probably have bigger fields and larger handles than a corresponding date at Turfway.  Sometimes what is good for racing is also what's good for CDI.

 thumbs up thumbs up

good luck trying to get the cdi bashers to say anythng good about them
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2012, 06:58:57 PM »

My guess is the CDI sympathizers have an investment in CDI.  The only one who has turned track owners, horse owners, trainers, horse players and fans against CDI is CDI itself. Horse players can make or break CDI and the momentum is growing in numbers of horse players who no longer want to buy what CDI has to offer.  CDI thinks only of their own interests or as Steven Crist puts it, are self-serving.  Does anyone really believe what they’re doing at Calder is not going to impact Illinois and the East Coast? It says in the DRF article, “There’s definitely a risk that we’ll lose some of our horses next year,” said Marshall. “But we’ve come up with measures to counter that risk including starting out next year’s meet at a higher purse level to hopefully motivate some of the northern based trainers at Gulfstream Park to stay around the area longer or even leave a second or third string with us on a permanent basis.” and “As the viability of racing at Calder continues to contract, farms in Ocala dependent on this place will begin to dry out and suddenly the fallout from all this goes well beyond just Calder and Churchill Downs.”

CDI is destroying the balance that exists in horse racing today and trying to tip the scales in their favor.  Their motives are not for the good of racing or its fans; they are self-serving with a ferocious need for greed.  Maybe one of the CDI sympathizers here can explain how leaving the Illinois Derby out of the Kentucky Derby prep race plan was good for racing in Illinois, the country or the fans.  Steven Crist said it well in the following article regarding the plan and Illinois Derby:
 
“What Churchill presented, however, was an over-reaching and sometimes self-serving plan that introduces new inequities, ones that would have probably kept Derby runners ranging from Arazi, the 4-5 Derby favorite in 1992, to Mine That Bird, the 50-1 Derby winner in 2009, out of the starting gate.” “Churchill also clearly and heavy handedly is trying to promote properties that it owns at the expense of tradition and common sense.” “Churchill also looks petty by excluding the $500,000 Illinois Derby at Hawthorne entirely from this scheme. The official explanation is that the race falls in April and thus would have to be a 100-point race under the rigid calendar-based system. More suspicious minds would say that it also has something to do with the fact that Churchill-owned Arlington Park just had a bitter Chicago-area dates dispute with Hawthorne and that stripping its crosstown rival’s biggest race of any Derby-qualifying significance is payback. Forget the calendar – the Illinois Derby deserves to be either a 50-point race or at the very least a 20-point “wild card” event.”
 
http://www.drf.com/news/crist-kentucky-derby-qualifying-plan-good-start-needs-adjustments
 
What’s CDI’s real motive for wanting Turfway’s September dates?  From the latest DRF article:  “The proposal makes enormous financial sense to Churchill, which operates the largest account-wagering company in the United States. After Labor Day, racing in Southern California shifts from Del Mar to Fairplex Park for three weeks, giving Churchill an opportunity to grab a significant slice of the national simulcast market while the major Southern California tracks are on a live-racing respite. Running in September would also allow Churchill to become the host track for all simulcast revenues throughout Kentucky in September, a designation that would reap a sizeable amount of additional revenue for the company.” Churchill will increase the purses over what Turfway would have offered (so they threw the horsemen a bone) but who is the real winner here?

http://www.drf.com/news/churchill-proposal-race-september-comes-turfways-expense
 
CDI thinks they can outsmart everyone for their own gain but they are really underestimating horse players so here’s some advice to live by for CDI and its sympathizers:  Respect is earned, Honesty is appreciated, Trust is gained, Loyalty is returned (Author Unknown but very wise; CDI doesn’t have a bit of horse sense or sportsmanship but they sure can sniff out a dollar.)
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« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2012, 07:48:49 PM »

I agree that CDI can be heavy handed in its dealings with other tracks.  Each track looks out for its own interests, and $$$ that one area track makes is $$$ out of another track's pocket.  They are big and throw their weight around.

You make valid points on some of your issues, but how can it be Calder's responsibility to provide free stables and training facilities in the off season?  What track does that?  Hawthorne charged Midwest $$$ to use their facility this summer, are they evil?
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« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2012, 08:27:57 PM »

beobob, the issue is the way CDI handled the situation. They left the horsemen with an unexpected expense and strategically timed it that the horsemen have no alternative now.  It's really despicable and disgusting in how they treat their business partners and what they've done will have a ripple effect throughout the industry. Any horseman, in my opinion, who would now go to Calder is nuts and is asking for trouble. The complaints with CDI are always how they operate. This is what you end up with when you have lawyers and accountants trying to run a horse racing operation.
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Mary Ann
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« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2012, 07:57:15 PM »

The latest article from Bloodhorse:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/73272/wide-impact-seen-from-calder-stall-rent-plan
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