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Author Topic: AP vs. Hawthorne at IRB meeting today  (Read 3020 times)
HorseVoice*
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« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2012, 10:17:56 PM »

You're right--I see the light.  Having a first-class facility capable of running real Grade One races does nothing at all for IL racing.

Oh, you want to be a smartass? My favorite game.

Tell us, O Wise One, what having three Grade One races -- all on one day -- does for Illinois racing. Be specific. 

I'm sure we could have hosted the Breeders Cup at Sportsman's Park.

Same question here: what did having the Breeders Cup at AP do for Illinois racing?

As for racing quality, just check the form and see where Chris Block's good horses spend the winter.  Where's Mike Stidham in February?  Where's Catalano in March?  They sure ain't at Hawthorne.

Somehow you knew you'd lose using the sarcasm approach, so, what, you went straight to the asshat approach?

What the hell does Hawthorne have to do with where good horses "spend the winter"? It's WINTER here, fool -- I wouldn't keep my good horses in the Upper Midwest no matter *what* track was open.

I absolutely agree (w/ Chris and others) that there's a place for Hawthorne, and I'd hate to see it gone.  As I said earlier, if it went away, IL horsemen would be hurting.  But that doesn't make AP evil.

AP in and of itself is not evil. Just the guy in charge of the place is, and the sooner he gets on his yacht and sails away for good, the better off Illinois racing will really be. RLD has become a source of extreme divisiveness in Illinois racing, and as I PROMISED over ten years ago on this very forum, Illinois politicians have hardly lifted a finger to help him get what he wants.

This will continue until RLD is out of the picture of Illinois racing. The way he barked at our state politicians during a downstate visit in 1998, when he threatened to close AP and grow corn on the land there -- talked down to them like they were a bunch of gardeners working at his Barrington Hills estate -- THAT will never be forgotten, nor forgiven. Our legislators may LOOK stupid, but they are not...and they have looooong memories.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2012, 10:24:27 PM »

Some of the 200 million that was used for the new structure was insurance money from the fire.  Although he did add a lot of his own to the insurance amount.
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Chris Szulc
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« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2012, 11:02:24 PM »

Some of the 200 million that was used for the new structure was insurance money from the fire.  Although he did add a lot of his own to the insurance amount.

but RLD PAID for those premiums !!  Grin
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SandyLoam
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« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2012, 09:01:01 AM »

Geez, haven't RLD and then CDI been living off the "up from the ashes" fairy tale long enough? Who or what started that fire, anyway? Hawthorne knows what it is and tries its best. Just because Arlington tells you it's "world-class" racing doesn't make it so. If anything, the powers that be at Arlington disrespect their own facility by installing the black plastic and then not providing better racing. They want to be the only ones standing when or if slots come to the tracks. It's so obvious.
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ggenie
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« Reply #54 on: September 26, 2012, 01:53:59 PM »

Don't forget the 1/2% of inter track handle (before parlors) from the purse account given to Arlington for their rebuilding costs.
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faster horses
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« Reply #55 on: September 27, 2012, 12:33:21 PM »

Any chance the relief Hawthorne got will show up in purses, or when?  The ones published in the first book are pretty bad.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #56 on: September 27, 2012, 01:19:20 PM »

Any chance the relief Hawthorne got will show up in purses, or when?  The ones published in the first book are pretty bad.

This is 2012. The "relief" kicks in 2013, with the extra winter dark days. That extra money should show up in 2013 purses ... assuming Tim Carey doesn't spend it all on the Illinois Derby.  Wink

Speaking of extra money, and specifically the track commission portion ... can anyone say "air conditioning"? 
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
faster horses
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« Reply #57 on: September 27, 2012, 06:02:35 PM »

I've gotten the impression that purse budgets are set at least partly based on projections, so I was hoping they might loosen the purse strings once they knew they'd have more revenue--probably too optimistic.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #58 on: September 27, 2012, 07:04:02 PM »

This is 2012. The "relief" kicks in 2013, with the extra winter dark days. That extra money should show up in 2013 purses ... assuming Tim Carey doesn't spend it all on the Illinois Derby.  Wink

Speaking of extra money, and specifically the track commission portion ... can anyone say "air conditioning"? 

Air conditioning costs money, and since everyone seemed to swallow the excuse that they are having the same "HVAC problems" for the 3rd straight year, where is the incentive to fix it? Seriously, these days, it's like they don't even want you there unless they are running live.

I'd like to see Hawthorne increase the value of the Illinois Derby AND add some kind of bonus for any Illinois Derby participant that goes on to win one of the Triple Crown races...even more if the *winner* of the Illinois Derby wins a TC race
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Livingthedream
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« Reply #59 on: September 27, 2012, 07:05:57 PM »

I agree with Szulc that Hawthorne and Arlington have to find a way to coexist and support each other.  Yes I am for competition as mentioned earlier (McDonalds vs Burger King). However, I think the differance here is, IF Arlington Park got their wish and Hawthorne went away. Now Arlington would be very conservative in selecting their dates, and I am pretty sure it would not include January, February, March, possibly April, November, December. IMO that my friend would be the end of racing in Illinois....AP keeps complaining about how Hawthorne is doing this and that wrong.... I would love to see if the shoe was on the other foot and AP and Hawthorne flipped dates... I wonder how well AP would perform. As a horseman in Illinois, WE NEED BOTH TRACKS.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #60 on: September 27, 2012, 07:07:22 PM »

I've gotten the impression that purse budgets are set at least partly based on projections, so I was hoping they might loosen the purse strings once they knew they'd have more revenue--probably too optimistic.

The extra $800,000 that's anticipated to shift is about 3 or 4% of Hawthorne's 2013 purse budget. I wouldn't be counting on anyone getting rich off that, now or next year.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #61 on: September 27, 2012, 08:06:45 PM »

The extra $800,000 that's anticipated to shift is about 3 or 4% of Hawthorne's 2013 purse budget. I wouldn't be counting on anyone getting rich off that, now or next year.

Hmm. Coming away from the dates hearing, some AP flack said that getting shorted that amount would "significantly" impact AP's purses in 2013.

I guess it all depends on whose ox is getting gored.  dunno
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GRANDPA
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« Reply #62 on: September 27, 2012, 09:19:41 PM »

IF I WAS CHURCHILL DOWNS AND RDF I WOULD BE MORE WORRIED ABOUT MY OWN PRODUCT AND NOT THE ILLINOIS DERBY. IF YOU ASKED EVERY BETTOR AND EVERY TRAINER IN THE COUNTRY WHERE THEY WOULD RATHER RACE I'LL BET THEY WOULD BET HAWTHORNE AHEAD OF AP. AND ANY TRAINER WOULD WANNA PUT A 2YR. OLD ON THE HAWTHORNE SURFACE. ARLINGTON IS A NOTHING MEET. SEE ANY BAFFERT OR PLETCHER HORSES SHIPPING HERE. THEIR SECOND STRINGERS DON'T EVEN COME HERE. WHAT DO YOU THINK. WHERE WOULD YOU RATHER BET? I AM BIASED BECAUSE I GREW UP BETTING ON CICERO AVE. I THINK THE HORSEMAN AROUND THE COUNTRY FEEL THE SAME WAY AS WE DO ABOUT DICK. OPENING DAY OCTOBER 5TH. GET YOUR ASS OUT THERE.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #63 on: September 27, 2012, 09:30:39 PM »

Hmm. Coming away from the dates hearing, some AP flack said that getting shorted that amount would "significantly" impact AP's purses in 2013.

I guess it all depends on whose ox is getting gored.  dunno

Arlington distributes about $21M per year in purses. So you figure out what % of their purse total $800k is.

The $800k could, however, put a stink on that shiny new expensive 1-5/8 mi. (?) "Arlington St. Smithers" race, or whatever they called that new Million Day thing they pulled out their butts in order to spend a big chunk of their boat settlement money rather than giving it to the local horsemen.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
faster horses
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« Reply #64 on: September 27, 2012, 11:05:25 PM »

Arlington distributes about $21M per year in purses. So you figure out what % of their purse total $800k is.

The $800k could, however, put a stink on that shiny new expensive 1-5/8 mi. (?) "Arlington St. Smithers" race, or whatever they called that new Million Day thing they pulled out their butts in order to spend a big chunk of their boat settlement money rather than giving it to the local horsemen.

I'm sure local horseman Chris Block, who damn near won it with an IL-bred, shares that view.  Not.
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Bob B
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« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2012, 07:16:36 AM »

At the risk of being cyber-attacked, would the shut down of Hawthorne really be the end of Illinois racing?  Wouldn't it be possible to work with Indiana Downs and Hoosier Park (both 4 hours away from Arlington) for a year round circuit?  Oaklawn being the lone track in Arkansas works well with their short meet since a lot of their horses head to Churchill, Remington and Louisiana Downs.  Colonial is also the sole track in Virginia and they work with Maryland so as to create a circuit between two states.  I think an Arlington meet from May 1st to Labor Day would be very successful and if it became an elite meet being a monopoly in Chicagoland, the lesser horses could always come down to Fairmount Park providing it lives to see another few years.

Granted not having to travel those extra three hours and going out of state while being able to race at Hawthorne would be optimal for Illinois horsemen, I think the threat of the death of Illinois racing is extreme.

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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #66 on: September 28, 2012, 08:15:03 AM »

At the risk of being cyber-attacked, would the shut down of Hawthorne really be the end of Illinois racing? 

It would put a serious hurt on the Illinois breeding program, which is already in serious shape, and create quiet a hardship for a number of resident horsemen.

Quote
I think an Arlington meet from May 1st to Labor Day would be very successful and if it became an elite meet being a monopoly in Chicagoland, the lesser horses could always come down to Fairmount Park providing it lives to see another few years.

I'm sure something like this is Dick's ultimate "vision" for Illinois racing. It is not, however, everyone's cup of tea to have just a 3 mo. local racing season as well as General Dick D. having a monopoly over your entire life and livelihood.
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
PURPLE LAVERN
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« Reply #67 on: September 28, 2012, 08:25:35 AM »

Chicago should be a major market when it comes to racing....

We shouldn't have to call on Indiana to ride shot gun for us
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« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2012, 08:37:35 AM »

For whatever reason, the economy, the casinos, the state government, etc, etc, the betting public no longer supports year round racing in Illinois. I, for one, would support a short, quality racing season in Chicago. Today playing low level claimers maiden claimers and state breds, regardless of surface, is not very different than the lotto.
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SandyLoam
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« Reply #69 on: September 28, 2012, 08:50:18 AM »

From what I've heard about the IRB meeting: I wouldn't call it a crime if some of the Hawthorne people beat the hell out of the CDI/Arlington smarmy suits for telling the IRB how badly Hawthorne conducts its business, how bad a shape it's in and how it doesn't deserve ANYTHING. Things were more civilized when the mob ran the tracks.

Any talk of "competition" being good for the Arlington/Hawthorne relationship falls short because Arlington is not in a competitive mode. It is in a predatory mode. AND, Arlington has no basis because its racing is sub-par, to be kind.

If the Illinois Derby is so worthless, give Dickie D. a tablespoon and have him scrape up the plastic track and dispose of it in a Superfund toxic waste dump, where it belongs.(By the way, what IS the environmental impact of the track on the groundwater?) And then create Arlington's own showcase DIRT race. If you can do it better, CDI . . .

Just make sure the Pink Floyd cover band keeps playing and the Miller Lites keep selling.
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Bob B
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« Reply #70 on: September 28, 2012, 10:15:02 AM »

It would put a serious hurt on the Illinois breeding program, which is already in serious shape, and create quiet a hardship for a number of resident horsemen.


Fair point on the breeding.  I wouldn't argue that it would kill Illinois breeding utilizing my examples of Arkansas and Virginia as proof.
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Chris Szulc
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« Reply #71 on: September 28, 2012, 11:26:00 AM »

Fair point on the breeding.  I wouldn't argue that it would kill Illinois breeding utilizing my examples of Arkansas and Virginia as proof.

But the Arkansas breeding program is absolutely horrendous. All the Arky-Breds seem to take 9 months off every year..... At least our horses are competitive elsewhere.
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« Reply #72 on: September 28, 2012, 01:21:25 PM »

That's what I was agreeing with.  Arkansas and Virginia don't have good breeding at all and that would be a problem with my scenario of Arlington being the only game in town.  I don't think one track in Chicago would kill horse racing in Illinois but Terry enlightened me that it would probably kill breeding. 
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« Reply #73 on: September 28, 2012, 01:40:07 PM »

Queue yacht image...



This guy makes me want to puck. Hate the mofo. He must be hurting. I saw him at the Barrington McDonald's sitting in his Black Mercedes license plate #DD 6 munching on a cheeseburger. Why a cheeseburger? You know it cheapest thing on the menu! Cheap, dirty Dicky boy.
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« Reply #74 on: September 28, 2012, 01:58:13 PM »

This guy makes me want to puck. Hate the mofo. He must be hurting. I saw him at the Barrington McDonald's sitting in his Black Mercedes license plate #DD 6 munching on a cheeseburger. Why a cheeseburger? You know it cheapest thing on the menu! Cheap, dirty Dicky boy.

Oh and bye the way. I confronted this dirty mofo in the McDonalds parking lot. I asked him if he remembered me. "Hey Dicky boy you remember inviting to your track, telling me to have a good time and behave yourself". Than he flipps on me and had me arrested for criminal tresspassing. What an abuse of power. Dirty mofo tells me he doesn't remember. Are you sure it was me that had you arrested. Yes Mister D. I'm sure. My cousin has been working for you for over 20 years.

Mofo remembered me but didn't have the balls to admit it. Best thing to happen to me was getting unfairly kicked out of his track 12 years ago.
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