Chicago Barn to Wire BRIS
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


October 22, 2014, 05:03:36 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Want to learn about exchange wagering?  (Read 967 times)
Round Table
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2845

And then I saw her, coming out of the sun.




Ignore
« on: September 19, 2012, 02:40:49 PM »

http://www.horseracingnation.com/blogs/ExchangeWagering101#
Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
pamwaggy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8184




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2012, 04:41:07 PM »

Thanks.  I've been wanting something like that.  I don't know one thing about exchange wagering.
Report to moderator   Logged
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2012, 06:07:46 PM »

thanks for posting Round Table

the fans, the bettors, the media, the tracks, the horsemen-and the industry in general dont undertsand what a betting exchange is--what it offers--and how to switch the current ancient method of pari mutuel betting to the modern day(although the Brits have had bookies for centuries)exchange wagering

this country has BIG, big hangups about bookmaking--and a player like me goes on the exchange and offers prices and "lays" all the time and never makes a wager--that is considered bookmaking in this country--so lawmakers need to understand what the hell is going on

one big stumbling block is the tracks and the horsemen need the ridiculous 20-25% takeouts for the operating costs and purses--but how to cut up the pie(cash)amongst the tracks-the horsemen-the exchange folks will probably take years--and htats after the education part has been completed--so we are looking at ;east 5 years or longer for California

New Jerseys racing situation is in dire straits--so the chances they push it through sooner are greater--they can just tack it on to the lawsuits since they are already getting ready to sue The Feds for sports betting anyway
Report to moderator   Logged
hungry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3427




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2012, 07:25:14 PM »

thanks for posting Round Table

the fans, the bettors, the media, the tracks, the horsemen-and the industry in general dont undertsand what a betting exchange is--what it offers--and how to switch the current ancient method of pari mutuel betting to the modern day(although the Brits have had bookies for centuries)exchange wagering

this country has BIG, big hangups about bookmaking--and a player like me goes on the exchange and offers prices and "lays" all the time and never makes a wager--that is considered bookmaking in this country--so lawmakers need to understand what the hell is going on

one big stumbling block is the tracks and the horsemen need the ridiculous 20-25% takeouts for the operating costs and purses--but how to cut up the pie(cash)amongst the tracks-the horsemen-the exchange folks will probably take years--and htats after the education part has been completed--so we are looking at ;east 5 years or longer for California

New Jerseys racing situation is in dire straits--so the chances they push it through sooner are greater--they can just tack it on to the lawsuits since they are already getting ready to sue The Feds for sports betting anyway

There's not much to understand, its mano y mano. If you dislike a horse, you can specifically bet against that horse. In the current Pari Mutuel landscape, you have to actually pick the winner out of the other horses to make money, with exchange betting, if you know one piece of info (that you want to specifically bet against one individual horse) you can make money and that's all you need to know. The current betting rules force you to not only have an opinion on your horse, but you need to have an opinion on ALL the horses in the race....regular betting forces you to handicap a field of horses in order to make money, some people just dont have time to handicap 10 runners to find some way to 'bet against' the horse they dislike.

I think that many people actually understand the concept, but tracks and horsemen are pretending to 'no habla ingles' because exchange wagering doesnt benefit them in anyway, its just a benefit to horse bettors.

Believe you me, if exchange wagering was a cash cow to tracks and horsemen, it would have been enacted a long time ago.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2012, 07:31:46 PM »

thanks for posting Round Table

the fans, the bettors, the media, the tracks, the horsemen-and the industry in general dont undertsand what a betting exchange is--what it offers--and how to switch the current ancient method of pari mutuel betting to the modern day(although the Brits have had bookies for centuries)exchange wagering

I'd say they understand it quite well: Nothing more than the latest scam to take more of the existing handle revenue away from "racing" and split it up among more parties.

- OTB: Was going to result in a huge jump in handle  and more revenue ... bzzzzt!
- Full card: Was going to result in a huge jump in handle  and more revenue ... bzzzt!
- In home signals and ADW: Was going to result in a huge jump in handle and more revenue ... bzzzzt!
- rebates: Were going to result in a huge jump in handle and more revenue .... bzzzzt!

All that's come from all these pie in the sky promises from 3rd parties who wanted to get into the bet-taking game and horseplayers who wanted it easier for them personally is pretty much the same old handle split up among a lot more parties, resulting in crappy purse earnings from the actual business of horse racing.

But here's a suggestion: All you guys who want exchange wagering, start your own track, and buy your own horses, and run your own races, and exchange away ... if it is so all-fired lucrative.

 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

Not even Betfair has gone that route, because they know damn well the revenue from exchange wagering can't support an entire racing program.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 07:34:24 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2012, 07:46:45 PM »

exchange wagering could easily provide enough revenue for all the parties involved--but that would involve cooperation amongst all the groups and that probably wont happen anytime soon
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2012, 08:00:11 PM »

exchange wagering could easily provide enough revenue for all the parties involved

And you base that claim on ... what?

If exchange wagering is such a gold mine for racing, why aren't the English and Irish running for the fattest purses in the world?
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2012, 08:06:21 PM »

you have no vision--i will cease trying to try and help a blind man see
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2012, 08:18:10 PM »

you have no vision--i will cease trying to try and help a blind man see

You have no facts to back up your claim that it would be a great boon to racing, especially from the revenue side.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2012, 08:24:02 PM »

check out the earning reports for Betfair.com over the last decade and theres your proof
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2012, 09:54:04 PM »

check out the earning reports for Betfair.com over the last decade and theres your proof

There's the proof it's profitable for Betfair. However, the issue here is convincing "racing" that it's a good deal for them.

And we are back to where we started, in that the Betfairs of this world, as well as bettors such as you who want exchange wagering for your own reasons (and screw "racing", don't insult the readers) need to come up with some sort of convincing argument why it would be good for "racing" as well. So far, Betfair's contribution to "racing" has not exactly vaulted English or Irish or Australian racing into the stratosphere, while at the same time enabling some very damaging and image-ruining scandals.

So now, explain how this scheme is going to enrich the people who run racetracks, and own horses.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
hungry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3427




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2012, 12:41:20 AM »

The biggest problem with racing is RACING.

Bettors dont want to supplement the pretty horsies, they want the same price they can get by betting NFL games in Veags. Free Parking, Free admission, free drinks (if you can score them) and an approx 5% vig and only 2 teams. Racing 'fans' arent interested in supplementing the lavish lifestyles of owners, trainers and jocks when they can get free adm, free parking and a wager on a sporting event where they DONT have to supplement anyone except a 'small vig' for the bookie.

With an exchange wager, you can't 'hide' the fact that a ton of  bettors monies go into the pockets of the participants. With a 10 horse field, its easy to 'hide' the large takeout, you dont notice it as much with 10 horses, but with 2 football teams, you notice it.

If an NFL bet was the racing industry, you would have to lay -140 to win 100 on both sides (currently its -110 on both sides)

Racing -140
NFL -110

In racing, you bet 140 to win 100, NFL bet 110 to win 100.

Report to moderator   Logged
Round Table
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2845

And then I saw her, coming out of the sun.




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2012, 08:48:28 AM »

check out the earning reports for Betfair.com over the last decade and theres your proof

I'm not so sure.

Betfair is the gorilla in the room.  They control 90% of the exchange market.  IMO the issue comes down to - if exchange wagering is approved, how much is betfair willing to pony up to support racing and racing's commitment to the public?  How much is betfair or another licensee willing to pay?  Have they come to terms?  No.
Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2012, 09:04:27 AM »

I'm not so sure.

Betfair is the gorilla in the room.  They control 90% of the exchange market.  IMO the issue comes down to - if exchange wagering is approved, how much is betfair willing to pony up to support racing and racing's commitment to the public?  How much is betfair or another licensee willing to pay?  Have they come to terms?  No.

Betfair knows that landing exchange wagering in the states would be a billion dollar cash cow--they would bend over backwards to make this happen--slam dunk

they paid Hollywood millions just to have their name mentioned 378, 965 times a day on TVG--so they will work with everyone
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2012, 09:23:03 AM »

Betfair knows that landing exchange wagering in the states would be a billion dollar cash cow--they would bend over backwards to make this happen--slam dunk

they paid Hollywood millions just to have their name mentioned 378, 965 times a day on TVG--so they will work with everyone

Well, exactly, a billion dollar cash cow for Betfair, but please detail the revenue stream for the people who put on the show, track owners and horse owners. Without them managing to stay afloat there's nothing for you to bet on. Naming rights to the track? Wow, I bet that pays a lot of purses.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Round Table
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2845

And then I saw her, coming out of the sun.




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2012, 09:46:22 AM »

Betfair knows that landing exchange wagering in the states would be a billion dollar cash cow--they would bend over backwards to make this happen--slam dunk

they paid Hollywood millions just to have their name mentioned 378, 965 times a day on TVG--so they will work with everyone

LOL.  They're not interested in a "backward bending" deal in CA. If they were, bending over backwards that is, and committing to the horsemen and the "forgotten man", the public, we'd hear more about a deal, wouldn't we?

What is the status in CA? Didn't Governor Swarzenegger approve it, in principle?
Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2012, 09:50:07 AM »

What is the status in CA? Didn't Governor Swarzenegger approve it, in principle?

The last I read, it went for a hearing before the CHRB (?) for a test run at Del Mar, but there was so much opposition to it from other track owners like Stronach and various owner/horsemen groups that they tabled it. Apparently Betfair and the various players' groups who want it had not done much of a job convincing them this is a good thing for racing. Interestingly, Twin Spires also jumped on the bandwagon and applied.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Round Table
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2845

And then I saw her, coming out of the sun.




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2012, 09:54:39 AM »

Right.  Don't know I heard anything about it and Twin Spires .
Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
Round Table
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2845

And then I saw her, coming out of the sun.




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2012, 10:03:04 AM »

Oh. Ok. Twin Spires applied to manage the exchange, too.  That's fairly interesting.  But without a deal for the horsemen, the horses, and the public, WHY SHOULD THEY CARE?  The horsemen have plenty of problems already.
Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
Round Table
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2845

And then I saw her, coming out of the sun.




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2012, 10:26:18 AM »

Betfair'll make their deal in NJ.  Then if the GOP and guys like Steve King and Mitt Romney and Chris Christie have their way, the states will have no way to regulate it. In other words they will not bve able to protect themselves. I'm more than ready to tell you all about Congressman Steve King and the others, if you all are interested.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 10:36:50 AM by Round Table » Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2012, 11:10:00 AM »

Betfair'll make their deal in NJ.  Then if the GOP and guys like Steve King and Mitt Romney and Chris Christie have their way, the states will have no way to regulate it. In other words they will not bve able to protect themselves. I'm more than ready to tell you all about Congressman Steve King and the others, if you all are interested.

NJ voters overwhelmingly approved Exchange wagering via a referndum last November

California isnt real sharp(see synthetic surface mandate)so NJ will be first--but their politics in trenton is a little complicated

why would Twinspires apply for an exchange if eventually it wont happen?

this is very similar to the legalization of prostitution and controlled substances hangups--we must wait for the "old guard" to die off or retire so some fresh-modern thinking can take effect--this pari mutuel shit is cavemen in mentality
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2012, 11:39:31 AM »

this is very similar to the legalization of prostitution and controlled substances hangups--we must wait for the "old guard" to die off or retire so some fresh-modern thinking can take effect--this pari mutuel shit is cavemen in mentality

It's not caveman as far as the people who invest and put on the show making money. In fact, when parimutuel wagering was introduced in the 10's and 20's to replace the old caveman style exchange bookie wagering, there was a huge infusion of revenue into the game. Before that they had to rely on admissions and some small bookie license fees for revenue and purses, and of course, since no one goes to the racetrack anymore, that's out. That's why purses are still so crappy in Europe, because they still rely on that same old caveman model of revenue.

But like I said, if you "fresh-modern thinkers" want exchange wagering, start your own racetrack and buy your own horses and put on your own show and exchange wager away. You won't, though, because you know that model is a stone cold money loser. What you and the others want is simply to bet against others for free or nearly free on an athletic contest that others have put on the track by pouring in their sweat, blood, and money, while you put in nothing. This isn't a charity, you know, set up to scratch the itch of addicted gamblers. It's a business.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 11:41:45 AM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2012, 10:26:47 PM »

It's not caveman as far as the people who invest and put on the show making money. In fact, when parimutuel wagering was introduced in the 10's and 20's to replace the old caveman style exchange bookie wagering, there was a huge infusion of revenue into the game. Before that they had to rely on admissions and some small bookie license fees for revenue and purses, and of course, since no one goes to the racetrack anymore, that's out. That's why purses are still so crappy in Europe, because they still rely on that same old caveman model of revenue.

But like I said, if you "fresh-modern thinkers" want exchange wagering, start your own racetrack and buy your own horses and put on your own show and exchange wager away. You won't, though, because you know that model is a stone cold money loser. What you and the others want is simply to bet against others for free or nearly free on an athletic contest that others have put on the track by pouring in their sweat, blood, and money, while you put in nothing. This isn't a charity, you know, set up to scratch the itch of addicted gamblers. It's a business.



you elongated answer is bizarre--Betfair isnt stupid--they dont want to be in the racetrack business or horse business--and they dont care and openly confess there are mainly interested in profits--horse racing is dying--blood slots will be diverted and the overall quality and interest will wane--even more than it has already--Betfair is in the business of making money and providing a platform for punters(to use the english term)

Exchange wagering will happen--just like casinos happened in Las Vegas  way back when--and finally in atlantic city in 1976--its just a matter of politics, payoffs and back room deals  --but the mind culture that parimutuel wagering status quo you show is not progressive and/or forward whatsoever
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2012, 11:32:54 PM »

you elongated answer is bizarre--Betfair isnt stupid--they dont want to be in the racetrack business or horse business

Well, exactly right. They know there's hardly any money in it, and sure can't be supported by their business model of exchange wagering. And so do all those "backwards" people in racing who don't approve it.

Quote
--and they dont care and openly confess there are mainly interested in profits--horse racing is dying--blood slots will be diverted and the overall quality and interest will wane--even more than it has already--Betfair is in the business of making money and providing a platform for punters(to use the english term)

Right. Profits off an industry they didn't build, and barely support. With the exception of TVG, I do give them credit for that.

Quote
Exchange wagering will happen

It may, but it will be interesting to see what happens when it comes up against the Federal Interstate Horse Racing Act. Maybe there's exchange wagering but no races to bet on?

Quote
but the mind culture that parimutuel wagering status quo you show is not progressive and/or forward whatsoever

Yadda yadda progressive schmessive. I note that you STILL have not offered up any monetary reason at all for "racing" to embrace the exchange model. The appeal to emotion using unsupported claims like "progressive" and "forward" is no business case at all. Where's the beef?  
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2012, 12:24:48 AM »

i enjoy the back and forth Terry--all barbs aside

i come from a bookmaking background-that may explain the "mind culture" i have on this topic

Betfair has the cash(and not to keep mentioning Betfair--any exchange can  be created--including one by a racetrack)--and they are behind the scenes trying very hard--but trying to educate all the groups we have previously talked about IS worth it in the long run -because its a windfall--like a casino Jeff Gural is lobbying for here in NJ--but as per usual--politics and the ignorant thinking of the decision makers is a tall order to overcome

the beef is in the exchange wagering format and the profits that could be shared if only they understood--and--to your point--a financial incentive from the exchange folks for the parties involved to seriously talk turkey

i want them to talk turkey
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2012, 01:56:28 AM »

the beef is in the exchange wagering format and the profits that could be shared if only they understood--and--to your point--a financial incentive from the exchange folks for the parties involved to seriously talk turkey

i want them to talk turkey

Well then, we're back to ground zero. Apparently Betfair has not yet talked turkey, because the people who put on racing haven't heard what they need to hear about money. I firmly believe when the day comes that they make an offer that's attractive enough monetarily, all the issues of integrity and so on will suddenly take a back seat. That's the power of money. So don't blame "racing", blame Betfair for not coming across with the bucks.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2012, 07:50:00 AM »

yes--ground zero--i feel the tracks should make an effort and stop acting like supermodels who need to be serviced--racing is dying--their life depends on it--and exchange wagering will exist and be profitable long after racing dead in this country--so i feel its on the tracks not to have executives who have your thought process take control of their destiny--instead of it being legislated away
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2012, 08:56:02 AM »

yes--ground zero--i feel the tracks should make an effort and stop acting like supermodels who need to be serviced--racing is dying--their life depends on it--and exchange wagering will exist and be profitable long after racing dead in this country--so i feel its on the tracks not to have executives who have your thought process take control of their destiny--instead of it being legislated away

My "thought process"? As in, "wanting to make money in my business"?

You go ahead and give the particulars of how racetracks and horsemen are going to make money from exchange wagering, and not have their existing revenue base decimated, and I'm all ears, and I'm sure they would be, too. So please, expound away with facts, figures, and details. That's what I've been asking you since post 1.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Bob B
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 631




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2012, 09:04:39 AM »

Process continues it's glacial pace towards approval in California.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/72963/exchange-wagering-rules-okd-by-chrb

There's still the battle to be waged on splits of the takeout and how high they have to be.  The 5% is not going to work here in the US.  They need to find the correct price that everyone can live with and try to keep it at 10% or below in my opinion.  The current OTB model is crazy with ADWs and off tracks getting the lion's share of the takeout vs the host track and purses.  I've frequently heard 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 model which could work with 33% going to host track, 33% Betfair and 33% for purses.  I actually feel the host track deserves more than the other two with Betfair deserving the least.  I think a 40% host, 35% purse and 25% Betfair model would be best.  

The next problem to be battled is access and liquidity.  As the article states only California and New Jersey residents will be allowed for exchange wagering.  Until most if not all states have approval (I already know us Missourians have no shot) it will not be the success they are hoping for.  If they can get that access, I think exchange wagering will be a big hit and if the liquidity is there, the potential churn involving ante-post, pre-race and in-race wagering could be a game changer for the industry.  But first, they have to get the revenue splits right unlike the advent of off track wagering, then get access to the customers approved and then inform the public of how to play and take advantage of the low 10% takeout.  

As for the integrity concerns, I don't share the opinion of the doomsdayers that races will be fixed.  An effective audit trail of all wagers and barriers of insiders being allowed to partake in exchange wagering will at least keep it on a level playing field to what we have today.

Very tall order to get over these hurdles but horse racing certainly needs something to help it stand on its own two feet.  Exchange wagering will not take the place of exotics so the tracks and purses will still be getting the lion's share of the higher takeout from these wagers.  The key is for the exchange wagering on mainly win bets having enough churn and liquidity to offset the lesser revenue split of the current parimutuel win takeout.

Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2012, 09:19:12 AM »

As for the integrity concerns, I don't share the opinion of the doomsdayers that races will be fixed.  An effective audit trail of all wagers and barriers of insiders being allowed to partake in exchange wagering will at least keep it on a level playing field to what we have today.

There have been numerous cases of race fixing already on the exchanges in both Great Britain and Australia that have been discovered. It's good they caught them, but that refunds zero money to bettors who were cheated. How many more undiscovered? And today in US wagering, no one can make a profit simply by ensuring one horse loses, so there's a lot of room for additional hanky panky with exchange wagering.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2012, 09:34:10 AM »

My "thought process"? As in, "wanting to make money in my business"?

You go ahead and give the particulars of how racetracks and horsemen are going to make money from exchange wagering, and not have their existing revenue base decimated, and I'm all ears, and I'm sure they would be, too. So please, expound away with facts, figures, and details. That's what I've been asking you since post 1.

i admire your passion--but disappointed you dont understand all of the politics behind the whole concept

OK--without being long winded--it would be a matter of the exchange folks putting up million and millions in lobbying and again more untold millions in legal actions to overturn the current bookmaking laws(or hangups and backward caveman thinking as i prefer)--then it a matter of more  backroom political payoffs--thats the way we do it here in NJ--trenton invented "pay for play"--example--casinos  here since 1976 yet 37 years later--not one slot machine or casino anywhere is allowed in the state -and thats because trenton and the governers office has been well paid to see to it that it doesnt happen--more examples is the Chicago politics--but i will defer to the ones who have lived it

having said all of that--basically the exchange folks would have to front money the purses for whoever wanted to get into bed with them--and thats means a flat out fee and/or a an agreed upon percentage all in advance cash to relieve the anxiety of all the horsemen/breeders and owners-the bettors are the least of the exhange folks concerns--bookmaking will be embraced and it would be blind to think otherwise

CASH--thats what it all about isnt it?

it would be a windfall for the exchanges--but at least its a lifeline for racing and a certain future would be somewhat guaranteed--instead of what we have going on now--the closing of Bay Meadows because of ignorance--Fort Erie is done--Mohawk and Windsor been have been declared dead --WEG is in trouble--NYRA is having their blood slots re-evaluated by Albany because of their imcompetence--Pennsylvania threatening to slash $72 million from the purse structure(harness and tbred)--etc, etc---whats better--living and accepting the future or burying your head in the sand and pretending this way it is now is just fine and everything will be OK--somehow-someway-magically?

pari mutuel gambling reminds me of having the same colored saddlecloths for certain stakes races--it just makes harder for everyone to see whats going on--just plain stupidity helping no one--and if the exchange industry need to purchase a hundreds of millions $$ a pair of special vision goggles for all the groups--well its up to them to decide if they can pull off the almighty caper known as landing english style bookmaking here in the great USA--and the exchange folks are waiting for someone to give it a shot--then capitalize on it--Twinspires / Churchill Downs/Greenwood(Parx)/Penn National and Magna are just sitting back licking their chops for someone like a Betfair to throw around the millions politically needed--then set up there own exchange--so we must wait
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2012, 10:37:31 AM »

i admire your passion--but disappointed you dont understand all of the politics behind the whole concept

I think you're wrong.

Quote
OK--without being long winded--it would be a matter of the exchange folks putting up million and millions in lobbying and again more untold millions in legal actions to overturn the current bookmaking laws

Not to mention the Interstate Horse Racing law that gives horsemen ownership of of the racing signals and the wagering on them. I'm not betting on the exchange folks.

Quote
having said all of that--basically the exchange folks would have to front money the purses for whoever wanted to get into bed with them--and thats means a flat out fee and/or a an agreed upon percentage all in advance cash to relieve the anxiety of all the horsemen/breeders and owners-the bettors are the least of the exhange folks concerns--bookmaking will be embraced and it would be blind to think otherwise

Seems to me they could save millions and millions in lobbying if they just took that money and made a deal with the tracks and horsemen up front. So what are the details and percentages and so on that it is going to take to get this to happen, and have you forwarded your plan to Betfair?

Quote
pari mutuel gambling reminds me of having the same colored saddlecloths for certain stakes races--it just makes harder for everyone to see whats going on--just plain stupidity helping no one

Exchange wagering reminds me of old fashioned bookmaking that was excised from racing because it was so corrupt, and is illegal in most states plus against the U.S. Wire Act, also because it is corrupt.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2012, 11:05:57 AM »

Seems to me they could save millions and millions in lobbying if they just took that money and made a deal with the tracks and horsemen up front. Exchange wagering reminds me of old fashioned bookmaking that was excised from racing because it was so corrupt, and is illegal in most states plus against the U.S. Wire Act, also because it is corrupt.
[/quote]

these words end the coversation right here and now--its obvious you dont have the understanding of the way things really are and going back and forth was fun a few posts--but now i see what Horse Voice has been dealing with here on an everyday basis

may all you photos be winning ones Terry--i admire the passion
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2012, 11:40:28 AM »

these words end the coversation right here and now--its obvious you dont have the understanding of the way things really are

The way things really are is that "racing" opposes exchange wagering because it does not provide them the necessary revenue, and thus exchange wagering is not being implemented. Do we agree that those "really are" the facts on the ground right now? What is NOT "the way things really are" is your vision of the future for exchange wagering. That's "the way you would like things to be".

And would you also agree that current racing interests also have plenty of money to lobby politicians, not to mention the high ground of existing law?

Quote
and going back and forth was fun a few posts--but now i see what Horse Voice has been dealing with here on an everyday basis

If you mean having his "general truths (because I say so)" challenged, I will at least say in support of Horse Voice that he generally provides more actual facts and data to support his positions than you have to date. Your only argument as far as I can see it is that parimutuel is "caveman" and exchange wagering is "the wave of the future", as though it's some marketing slogan like "Dippin' Dots, Ice Cream of the Future!" that's supposed to sell itself.

Quote
may all you photos be winning ones Terry--i admire the passion

And may all the legal exchange wagers you make today on the track of your choice be winning ones.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Epsom Derby
Full Member
***
Posts: 192




Ignore
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2012, 11:33:08 PM »

My wife likes Dippin Dots. Hard to find though.

Why are you so personally against the exchange system?

You, I, and the other guy you're posting with know that exchange wagering in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

So what's your beef?
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2012, 11:41:15 PM »

My wife likes Dippin Dots. Hard to find though.

Why are you so personally against the exchange system?

Who said I was personally against it? This is a discussion of ideas. I understand completely why "racing" isn't jumping all over it.

PS - Dippin' Dots for sale at Sox park.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
pamwaggy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8184




Ignore
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2012, 03:03:30 PM »

The last I read, it went for a hearing before the CHRB (?) for a test run at Del Mar, but there was so much opposition to it from other track owners like Stanch and various owner/horsemen groups that they tabled it. Apparently Betfair and the various players' groups who want it had not done much of a job convincing them this is a good thing for racing. Interestingly, Twin Spires also jumped on the bandwagon and applied.

The CHRB had a board meeting on 9/20/12.  They approved for public notice 25 proposed regulations governing the conduct of exchange wagering in California.  The board will have a public hearing on 10/18 at Santa Anita, at which time the regulations could be given final approval by The Board.  The regulations will then be sent to the Office of Administration Law for review and approval. 
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2012, 10:55:06 AM »

The CHRB had a board meeting on 9/20/12.  They approved for public notice 25 proposed regulations governing the conduct of exchange wagering in California.  The board will have a public hearing on 10/18 at Santa Anita, at which time the regulations could be given final approval by The Board.  The regulations will then be sent to the Office of Administration Law for review and approval.  

Here's an update story. Interesting paragraph about allowing various licensees to lay wagers. Apaprently it chose a limited rule, one limited to those "directly involved", as opposed to including, say, a groom from the stable next door in the barn, or whatever.

http://www.drf.com/news/exchange-betting-rules-advance-california
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2012, 11:44:05 AM »

Here's an update story. Interesting paragraph about allowing various licensees to lay wagers. Apaprently it chose a limited rule, one limited to those "directly involved", as opposed to including, say, a groom from the stable next door in the barn, or whatever.

http://www.drf.com/news/exchange-betting-rules-advance-california

do the folks that think this will never happen know about this?

once again--hangups about "laying" -also known as bookmaking-- is a roadblock of ignorance that needs to be removed
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2012, 12:14:54 PM »

once again--hangups about "laying" -also known as bookmaking-- is a roadblock of ignorance that needs to be removed

There's no ignorance about it; it's why there's a great deal of concern about who will be allowed to do it. When you can make a handsome profit off knowing that just one horse is going to LOSE (as in, not 1st), as opposed to the current system of needing to know which of 8 or 9 horses is going to WIN (as in finishing in front of 7 or 8 others), there's a powerful new incentive to rig races.

But personally I hope that if exchange wagering is indeed implemented, they allow as many insiders as possible to lay bets, so as to take to the cleaners all the self-styled wise guy bettors out there clamoring for its implementation.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2012, 12:20:48 PM »

There's no ignorance about it; it's why there's a great deal of concern about who will be allowed to do it. When you can make a handsome profit off knowing that just one horse is going to LOSE (as in, not 1st), as opposed to the current system of needing to know which of 8 or 9 horses is going to WIN (as in finishing in front of 7 or 8 others), there's a powerful new incentive to rig races.

But personally I hope that if exchange wagering is indeed implemented, they allow as many insiders as possible to lay bets, so as to take to the cleaners all the self-styled wise guy bettors out there clamoring for its implementation.

i knew you would come around eventually--thank you
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2012, 12:38:11 PM »

i knew you would come around eventually--thank you

Come around to what?
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
pamwaggy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8184




Ignore
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2012, 07:29:16 PM »

My wife likes Dippin Dots. Hard to find though.

Why are you so personally against the exchange system?

You, I, and the other guy you're posting with know that exchange wagering in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

So what's your beef?

What the heck are Dippin Dots?
Report to moderator   Logged
coldpunch
Guest

« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2012, 07:41:10 PM »

What the heck are Dippin Dots?

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

maybe its an east coast thing?
Report to moderator   Logged
beobob
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1959




Ignore
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2012, 09:11:07 PM »

What the heck are Dippin Dots?

Perfectly symmetrical tiny spheres of ice cream available in many flavors. Creamcicle is my personal favorite.
Report to moderator   Logged
pamwaggy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8184




Ignore
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2012, 09:21:50 PM »

Oh dang.  We don't have those. Must be an east coast thing for sure.
Report to moderator   Logged
honest & balanced terry
formerly plain old clockerterry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 12601

silver-tongued track bum




Ignore
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2012, 09:41:21 PM »

What the heck are Dippin Dots?

The Ice Cream of The Future.
Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.201 seconds with 16 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Arlington Million
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy