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Author Topic: Freehold and Meadowlands  (Read 2856 times)
the exactorman
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« on: September 10, 2012, 10:50:19 AM »

With the Meadowlands closed, why wouldnt Freehold have more race dates than they do? They are just racing Th-Fr-Sat?
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coldpunch
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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2012, 02:30:53 PM »

freehold doesnt have a pot to piss in

A--not enough horses will race for $2k purse to support more than a 3 day a week schedule
B--Pennwood doesnt want to race--they are still holding onto the dream of possibly getting slots--a dream they purchased for $44 mil back in the 90s
C--the place exists for gatepunching and for a handful of $1 ex box bettors who attend the races live
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the exactorman
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2012, 02:40:02 PM »

freehold doesnt have a pot to piss in

A--not enough horses will race for $2k purse to support more than a 3 day a week schedule
B--Pennwood doesnt want to race--they are still holding onto the dream of possibly getting slots--a dream they purchased for $44 mil back in the 90s
C--the place exists for gatepunching and for a handful of $1 ex box bettors who attend the races live
Last year when I went to live racing about 6-7 different times, I was shocked there was probably only a double digit amount of people in the place. Even in the restaurant area ( I think called Billys room?) there were very little people there. Back in the day, place was packed to a point that it was claustrophobic...
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coldpunch
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2012, 03:06:23 PM »

Last year when I went to live racing about 6-7 different times, I was shocked there was probably only a double digit amount of people in the place. Even in the restaurant area ( I think called Billys room?) there were very little people there. Back in the day, place was packed to a point that it was claustrophobic...

its a dump now and the parking lot on the route 537 side is full of new and used cars that a dealership obviously rents space from

maybe 20-25 people attend a thursday and/or friday--about 50 on a saturday--and those people there to load their  NJAW accounts, buy a DRF and leave
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2012, 03:29:13 PM »

With the Meadowlands closed, why wouldnt Freehold have more race dates than they do? They are just racing Th-Fr-Sat?
To answer your question, they need to keep the number of races to a minimum to be able to offer the purses they do, which are actually pretty good, excellent for the quality. They have X amount of purse dollars to distribute, so less races means a better average purse, people wouldn't ship there ro race for anything less.
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SHOWTIME!!!
coldpunch
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2012, 03:40:16 PM »

To answer your question, they need to keep the number of races to a minimum to be able to offer the purses they do, which are actually pretty good, excellent for the quality. They have X amount of purse dollars to distribute, so less races means a better average purse, people wouldn't ship there ro race for anything less.

this thursday they have 10 races and the combined purses barely crack $36k--true thats good for the quality--but how do horsemen break even with purses like that?
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the exactorman
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2012, 04:11:17 PM »

this thursday they have 10 races and the combined purses barely crack $36k--true thats good for the quality--but how do horsemen break even with purses like that?
I have not checked lately but it seems that the purse structure at Freehold is higher than lets say, Monticello?
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the exactorman
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2012, 04:16:03 PM »

To answer your question, they need to keep the number of races to a minimum to be able to offer the purses they do, which are actually pretty good, excellent for the quality. They have X amount of purse dollars to distribute, so less races means a better average purse, people wouldn't ship there ro race for anything less.
Thanks HF DE. I guess the stables that shipped up from DE and PA would lose money by the time expenses were calculated. It just seems odd how BOTH places Medowlands AND Freehold are closed but I guess the fan base hasnt been there and the picture is not getting any better.
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coldpunch
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2012, 05:08:19 PM »

Thanks HF DE. I guess the stables that shipped up from DE and PA would lose money by the time expenses were calculated. It just seems odd how BOTH places Medowlands AND Freehold are closed but I guess the fan base hasnt been there and the picture is not getting any better.

the fan base is the lottery sales ticket person, the hot dog lady, the security guard and three tellers

no one cares about freehold anymore other than the privileged who are allowed to bet after the first quarter ,and that is sad--but the gatepunching has driven away many folks from betting there--and is more blatant than ever
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Yimmy
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« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2012, 05:22:06 PM »

Soon to be a shopping mall and a used-car lot.  O/U is 15 months, laddies... ya pays ya money, ya takes ya chances.
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coldpunch
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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2012, 05:52:54 PM »

Soon to be a shopping mall and a used-car lot.  O/U is 15 months, laddies... ya pays ya money, ya takes ya chances.

one thing you must keep in mind--Freehold is owned by Pennwood--half Greenwood(The cuthroat Armenians who own Parx) and half Penn National--this consortium has very deep pockets--obviously doesnt care about racing-paid $44 mil for the dump and surrounding real estate--and is willing to "wait till the cows come home" as far as a change in trentonian politics

they have already refused purse enhancement cash from the casinos a few years ago so they would NOT have to concede the right to pursue slots

Pennwood is going to wait this out--even if it means $800 purses like Harrington once had-they want a casino @ Freehold and are dedicated to keeping that longshot possibility in the interim
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jdizigg
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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2012, 06:03:00 PM »

the fan base is the lottery sales ticket person, the hot dog lady, the security guard and three tellers

no one cares about freehold anymore other than the privileged who are allowed to bet after the first quarter ,and that is sad--but the gatepunching has driven away many folks from betting there--and is more blatant than ever

Do you have proof?  Or anyway of getting any?
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coldpunch
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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2012, 06:06:02 PM »

absolutley--the tellers make bets and handicap races--the lottery ticket lady is a BIG fan and the hot dog lady also is a fan--just go there and talk to them--they are not hard to find-and she has time--she sells 3 hot dogs every racing day

plenty of proof that a fanbase still exists
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jdizigg
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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2012, 06:11:09 PM »

absolutley--the tellers make bets and handicap races--the lottery ticket lady is a BIG fan and the hot dog lady also is a fan--just go there and talk to them--they are not hard to find-and she has time--she sells 3 hot dogs every racing day

plenty of proof that a fanbase still exists

Im talking about the windows staying open until the quarter
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the exactorman
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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2012, 06:18:16 PM »

the fan base is the lottery sales ticket person, the hot dog lady, the security guard and three tellers

no one cares about freehold anymore other than the privileged who are allowed to bet after the first quarter ,and that is sad--but the gatepunching has driven away many folks from betting there--and is more blatant than ever
CPunch: It is clear you are very knowledgable of the entire situation so in no way am I questioning you or contradicting you, but in the many races I have watched from Freehold, the pool money after the race starts rarely looks like something is going on. I am just comparing it to the the many other tracks I follow in which 9 out of 10 winners odds go DOWN while the race is 1/2 way in progress. I see this countless times at many other places worse than Freehold. Although as I said earlier...you know your stuff.....
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coldpunch
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« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2012, 06:20:52 PM »

Im talking about the windows staying open until the quarter

OH--OK

ever heard of Mr Parham?--he has computers all lined up in sequence with many combinations locked in--just waiting for the send button to be clicked--they watch and wait for breakers/laggards behind the gate--then pound the other combinations--if they see a blaster from the 8 hole clear easily-that horse gets used hard, etc, etc

he is just one of them--there is a professional @ Lexington who has been doing this for over a dozen years--he is a highroller and the host tracks allow it to bolster their handle

three venues--harrington, lexington and a dog track in florida are the three infamous venues where the cash goes in at around the half mile pole--if you think i am fabricating this whole story--watch the races from freehold-watch the odds as the gate leaves-watch the first quarter-then watch the odds move after the half--then report back to me and tell me i am wrong
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2012, 11:23:25 PM »

CPunch: It is clear you are very knowledgable of the entire situation so in no way am I questioning you or contradicting you, but in the many races I have watched from Freehold, the pool money after the race starts rarely looks like something is going on. I am just comparing it to the the many other tracks I follow in which 9 out of 10 winners odds go DOWN while the race is 1/2 way in progress. I see this countless times at many other places worse than Freehold. Although as I said earlier...you know your stuff.....

Isnt it odd that the leaders odds go down at all these tracks well after the start---Freehold IS actually one of the worst as Punch has said. Its brutal
Wanna hear a good one Exatorman---People tell me they cant pull no crap like that---its all late money and betting cycles.   bang head bang head bang head bang head----

There are open windows and dems are just the facts. Yet we still gamble on this nonsense

Punch explained exactly how it works and I commend you for actually watching the race and seeing these odds drop so late on the RIGHT horses

Many say it cant happen---Thankfully Laddies like you see it and are obviously not happy about it. Its been ongoing for a long time
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 11:27:19 PM by Central Park West » Report to moderator   Logged
the exactorman
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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2012, 04:52:29 AM »

if tracks really wanted to run an honest game they would close the pools at post time, and have about a 1 minute delay or however much time is needed to have all off site monies calculated/entered. This wouldnt be inconvenient to fans because all of these tracks finally run the race 3-9 minutes after post time says zero anyway. When I mentioned this goes on all over the place (betting after 10-50 seconds after a race starts), a few came on and said I was crazy, it was late money, etc. My point at the time was WHY is it then that the first 3 horses sitting 1-2-3 odds ALWAYS go down? The only time a bomb comes in is if a race completely breaks down and someone comes from way off the pace and wins.
I am glad C-Punch and CPW see this as well, even though I doubt it will ever be fixed especially if they are trying to cater to a big fish....
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2012, 07:31:01 AM »

if tracks really wanted to run an honest game they would close the pools at post time, and have about a 1 minute delay or however much time is needed to have all off site monies calculated/entered. This wouldnt be inconvenient to fans because all of these tracks finally run the race 3-9 minutes after post time says zero anyway. When I mentioned this goes on all over the place (betting after 10-50 seconds after a race starts), a few came on and said I was crazy, it was late money, etc. My point at the time was WHY is it then that the first 3 horses sitting 1-2-3 odds ALWAYS go down? The only time a bomb comes in is if a race completely breaks down and someone comes from way off the pace and wins.
I am glad C-Punch and CPW see this as well, even though I doubt it will ever be fixed especially if they are trying to cater to a big fish....

Once again I commend you on your astute onservations. And you are correct--it will never be fixed. As you pointed out, they can fix iit easily by closing windows well in advance. The idiotic excuse I  have heard is that this was tried and it cost them handle. Total nonsense. The people who are keeping the game alive are being given these opportunities. Parhams crooked bunch is one of these groups. There are five or so that get to place these open window wagers. It happens every day and you and you and I get robbed. Track managements will never change this because without these players, the game will go dead. Most tracks have no handle anyway. They dont want this to happen everywhere, so these groups place very late wagers. And Im not talking about on one leaver at the start. These wagers are made 30 seconds or more into the race.

You have noticed it and I have been screaming about it for 15 years, so expect no changes. Its up to you to make that change. I bet far less than I ever did. The drugs dont bother me nearly as much as the open window issue. Exactorman, does it bother you when you wager on a 4-1 shot and he is sailing along at the quarter nicely on his own and goes to 3-1? It bothers me very much. When you finally get sick of it, you will do what so many others have. It's a very corrupt situation, but not enough people care and they will just give you a BS answer anyway if you complain that it CANT happen. It can happen and it does. They need it to happen to please billion dollar syndicate players. You will have to decide if this is ok for you one day. It simply gives you NO CHANCE to win. Something to keep in mind. Like I say, I have studied and watched these patterns for 15 years. Its disgusting--but many oters have seen it and ran away from this corrupt business. Often times horses will break at the start and bets will be cancelled and their odds skyrocket. They have everything covered. You seem very smart, so just be aware that it's not a coincidence that those three leavers all go down in odds well after the race has started. It happens because its supposed to happen  head shake
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2012, 07:46:45 AM »

You might want to read this article by Bill Finley. It pertains to the T-breds (same issues there) and its about 5 or 6 years old. Notice the comments by some of the patrons---who Finley calls highly noted and respectable gamblers.


http://espn.go.com/horse/columns/misc/1457878.html
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burton
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« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2012, 09:44:41 AM »

best thing and most accurate portrayal of the betters who are complaining is the comment, "they don't really understand it".
That says it all in a nutshell.
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2012, 09:56:15 AM »

best thing and most accurate portrayal of the betters who are complaining is the comment, "they don't really understand it".
That says it all in a nutshell.

But many of us do understand it----It also says they dont like it
This is simply FACT
Exactorman says it happens 9 out of 10 races and hes RIGHT----he watches --YOU DONT BURTON
Nothing to with cycles. You bet---it goes right in
These syndicates have to keep the game alive so they are given this privilege. Deal with it already or leave....head out the sand pal
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burton
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« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2012, 10:19:26 AM »

Is one to believe Bill Finley or someone named "exactorman"?

If folks believe this is happening (9 of 10times) , it's hard to believe they bet their hard earned money on it.
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coldpunch
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« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2012, 10:21:05 AM »

best thing and most accurate portrayal of the betters who are complaining is the comment, "they don't really understand it".
That says it all in a nutshell.

Burton--you are the sole reason that statement was created--you continually show ignorance and you are as stubborn as a mule--which is half donkey--half jackass

when esteemed and long time airheads like yourself keep denying it--then the reply was boiled down to "they just dont get it"---you are the leader of the non-believers, the infidels
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2012, 10:22:39 AM »

Burton--you are the sole reason that statement was created--you continually show ignorance and you are as stubborn as a mule--which is half donkey--half jackass

when esteemed and long time airheads like yourself keep denying it--then the reply was boiled down to "they just dont get it"---you are the leader of the non-believers, the infidels


Amen
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