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Author Topic: Joel Rosario CANT OUT RIDE ANY NY JOCK  (Read 1612 times)
cliffyy
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« on: September 09, 2012, 01:37:17 PM »

SUNDAY RACE 4 Joel Rosario LOST HIS PANTS WHEN HE TRIED TO SHUT OFF    Rosie Napravnik    laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy



WAY TO STICK IT TO HIM ROSIE  thumbs up



ROSARIO WILL NOT MAKE IT IN NY  thumbs down


PACK YOUR BAGS ROSARIO ,,,, GO WEST YOUNG BOY GO WEST   laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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journalstuff
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2012, 04:04:29 PM »

I was quite surprised that Joel was outfinished. Especially since he's stronger rider than Rosie. I did notice he did try to block her. I didn't think the horse napravnik rode couldn't comeback and thought Rosario had it wrapped up but Rosie was able to recover and win!! Nice job Rosie!! She has made a nice impression with her riding abilities and never gave up!!
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coldpunch
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2012, 07:30:18 PM »

Rosario will be packing just like Leparoux will when Belmont ends near Halloween

racing against Ramon tends to do that--make you take your business elsewhere
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Yimmy
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2012, 07:41:42 PM »

Of the outfits that really matter in NY, only Matz and McGaughey really used him, though not consistently, and with decent but not particularly memorable results.  Leparoux is on different footing; he gets good stuff from Asmussen and Clement.   
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coldpunch
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2012, 07:46:20 PM »

Rosario is now aligned w Ron Anderson--the famous jock agent--of Jerry Bailey fame i believe

Joel was tolded to move east and Anderson will take care of getting him on some live stables

i can recall his bug year @ GG--he was hanging w Russell and saw he would be real good--around 2003 i believe--then that pompous ass Stauffer was his agent
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Yimmy
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2012, 07:47:02 PM »

Who was the greatest jockey agent of all time, Punch?  Smiley
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coldpunch
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2012, 07:55:08 PM »

Angel Cordero, Jr
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Yimmy
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2012, 07:58:29 PM »

LENNY, DAMMIT!!  Angry
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coldpunch
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2012, 08:03:44 PM »

LENNY, DAMMIT!!  Angry

whos Lenny?
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Yimmy
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2012, 08:07:45 PM »

Ahh, Punch... I envy you your youth:

"The Wards traveled to New York once a year to see Jim and Irene Dailey, and in August 1981, when Wesley was 13 and back East for the annual family get-together, his grandfather introduced him to Lenny Goodman, the most famous jockeys' agent in America. "My grandfather told Lenny I was going to be a jockey," says Wesley, "and that he should handle my book when the time came."

A legend, and a truly great guy.  RIP, Lenny.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1119089/index.htm

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coldpunch
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2012, 08:11:49 PM »

i was 20 when the article was written--by never paid any attention to agents back then

learneded something today--ty

Cordero still a good answer
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the exactorman
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2012, 08:20:49 PM »

I am not a fan or defender of Rosario. Objectively speaking many jockeys have struggled breaking into a new "colony". Many Years ago Alex Solis, who I considered an excellent jockey at the time was like 0 for 80 in the NY Belmont meet. In any given race at a NYRA track there is a jockey who is top tier. I tend to bet a horse and not worry too much about the jockey. If I lose, I will blame myself because 9.5 out of 10 the jockey is in the right position and the horse didnt fire.....JMO....
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the exactorman
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2012, 08:32:24 PM »

Ahh, Punch... I envy you your youth:

"The Wards traveled to New York once a year to see Jim and Irene Dailey, and in August 1981, when Wesley was 13 and back East for the annual family get-together, his grandfather introduced him to Lenny Goodman, the most famous jockeys' agent in America. "My grandfather told Lenny I was going to be a jockey," says Wesley, "and that he should handle my book when the time came."

A legend, and a truly great guy.  RIP, Lenny.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1119089/index.htm


Y: this is a great story thanks for passing it along!
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Yimmy
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2012, 09:01:00 PM »

 Smiley
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journalstuff
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« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2012, 09:09:06 PM »

Of the outfits that really matter in NY, only Matz and McGaughey really used him, though not consistently, and with decent but not particularly memorable results.  Leparoux is on different footing; he gets good stuff from Asmussen and Clement.  

Assmussen and Clement have noticed Rosario too. They may use him more in the future. He needs Todd Pletcher and Bill Mott but they have their riders and the same for Chad Brown. Maybe doors will open for Rosario now that Junior Alvarado will be gone for 4-5 weeks with a fracture of his right clavicle

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/72684/alvarado-fractures-clavicle-out-4-5-weeks

Rosario also had a nice Saratoga. Finished 5th and did well for his debut too. I had expected him to give Ramon Dominguez a run for his money here at the current Belmont Fall meet.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 09:11:47 PM by journalstuff » Report to moderator   Logged
the exactorman
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« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2012, 09:19:48 PM »

Assmussen and Clement have noticed Rosario too. They may use him more in the future. He needs Todd Pletcher and Bill Mott but they have their riders and the same for Chad Brown. Maybe doors will open for Rosario now that Junior Alvarado will be gone for 4-5 weeks with a fracture of his right clavicle

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/72684/alvarado-fractures-clavicle-out-4-5-weeks

Rosario also had a nice Saratoga. Finished 5th and did well for his debut too. I had expected him to give Ramon Dominguez a run for his money here at the current Belmont Fall meet.
I might be missing someone but with Dominguez, Castellano, Garcia, Velazquez, Velasquez, Lezcano, Maragh, Napravnick, and Prado around, it cannot be easy to make an immediate impact. Plus there are a few 5lb jockeys doing ok as well. I cannot see Rosario getting the live mounts to be even or second to Dominguez..JMO
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journalstuff
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« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2012, 09:31:20 PM »

I might be missing someone but with Dominguez, Castellano, Garcia, Velazquez, Velasquez, Lezcano, Maragh, Napravnick, and Prado around, it cannot be easy to make an immediate impact. Plus there are a few 5lb jockeys doing ok as well. I cannot see Rosario getting the live mounts to be even or second to Dominguez..JMO

I thought about that too but he proved me wrong at the Saratoga meet. I agree thought with what you said. That Wilmer Garcia jockey can ride. So can Irad Ortiz Jr.. I like to root for small guys like Wilmer and Irad. Think I had them at prices this year at Saratoga.

I am impressed by Rosie who has done well. I saw what Rosie really was at Belmont in the spring. I root for her alot. Am such a big fan of hers too. I haven't seen a female be this talented since Julie Krone. I was impressed that Rosie outrode Joel. It takes some rider to outride a guy like him. It's tough to win races in Ramon Dominguez's kingdom. You find the riders out in Maryland and Delaware who go on and have success at the tough circuits like Southern California, New York and Kentucky.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2012, 09:42:58 PM »

Again, this is a skewed focus, scrutiny of one aspect of the game to the near if not total exclusion of all others.

Jeffrey Fell was objectively a bad rider, but Mack Miller, the great grass trainer of the day, loved him, and Fell won a squillion races for him.  Eddie Maple was adequate, not great, but Woody Stephens used him on almost everything (Joe Cantey, too, for a while), and that set him up for about 20 lifetimes.  You can't look at these things in a vacuum.
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the exactorman
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« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2012, 09:57:16 PM »

Again, this is a skewed focus, scrutiny of one aspect of the game to the near if not total exclusion of all others.

Jeffrey Fell was objectively a bad rider, but Mack Miller, the great grass trainer of the day, loved him, and Fell won a squillion races for him.  Eddie Maple was adequate, not great, but Woody Stephens used him on almost everything (Joe Cantey, too, for a while), and that set him up for about 20 lifetimes.  You can't look at these things in a vacuum.
That is exactly my point when so many people constantly bash jockeys and give them too much credit/blame. I remember years ago Richard Migliore, who was an excellent jockey, but probably not a top 1 or 2 jockey, was winning 5 races a day, for days at a time. This was due to riding for Hushion, and Gaspar Mochera, who were extremely hot at the time....I often wondered why Allen Jerkens, who is a HOF trainer would never use a top jockey. He would use N Wynter, Georgina Frost, and other no name 5lb jockeys...was this done to tell us something???
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« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2012, 10:03:18 PM »

Yes, and before that, he'd use Robyn Smith and John Ruane and John Czarnecki and Jose Amy--- and win.  I've tried to tell this kid multiple times that his monomania is sending him barking up the wrong tree.   But he neither listens nor understands.

 
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coldpunch
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« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2012, 09:02:07 AM »

That is exactly my point when so many people constantly bash jockeys and give them too much credit/blame. I remember years ago Richard Migliore, who was an excellent jockey, but probably not a top 1 or 2 jockey, was winning 5 races a day, for days at a time. This was due to riding for Hushion, and Gaspar Mochera, who were extremely hot at the time....I often wondered why Allen Jerkens, who is a HOF trainer would never use a top jockey. He would use N Wynter, Georgina Frost, and other no name 5lb jockeys...was this done to tell us something???

now that the "chief" only has a small stable--he has maintained that low profile jocks are hungrier, will listen to him, and try harder

Ray Ganpath is an example of an obscure jock riding for him
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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2012, 11:28:23 AM »

The sharpies who liked to set up horses and get prices almost always used oddball jocks, hence Woody using Joe Brocklebank rather than his usual Eddie Maple in Danzig's first start.  In NY in the old days, Jim Conway was the best ever at this... he was actually creative about it.  You can look it up, he had a nice grass horse named Not Tomorrow who had a LOT of ability, but he ran with two bar shoes, and DANNY (not Eddie, Danny) Delahoussaye up... I believe it was the summer of '81, he won a few races, always at prices, given THAT profile, and we were collecting on him. 

I remember that Phipps had a good stakes mare named Blitey... Angel Penna, Sr. trained for him then.  She popped up near the end of a fall Belmont meet, and a few of us got word that it was her last race, and obviously they wanted her to go out on a winning note. The race was won by another mare of only slightly lesser stature, Catherines Bet, trained by Conway, and of course, after the race, I learned it was HER last race, too, I think she paid about $9.40.

Billy Turner, a genuinely great trainer, used the eternal scapegoat Jean Cruguet on Seattle Slew (among many other horses), and on his excellent colt Czaravich, he used Larry Adams, who was about 73 years old.

Alan Garcia is not a world-beater, but Rick Violette, another very sharp trainer, uses him and gets good results with him.  A good jock can't carry a bad horse over the finish line, but bad jocks win with well-meant and well-trained horses all the time.
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coldpunch
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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2012, 01:43:26 PM »

i think Ronnie Franklin riding Spectacular Bid is another excellent analogy --we could go on and on

getting back to the thread--Rosario just blends in with the crowd in the NYRA jocks room--but he was a major factor in southern california

lets give it some time see what the new agent can do for Joels business first--then we can be in a better position to make a judgment on how good he is
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2012, 02:11:04 PM »

N.B.:  Juan Carlos Guerrero, who while not a leading trainer is still a rather shewd and effective one, uses (wait for it...)  Kent Desormeaux, Jose Ortiz, Eddie Castro and Omar Hernandez. 
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coldpunch
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2012, 02:56:49 PM »

N.B.:  Juan Carlos Guerrero, who while not a leading trainer is still a rather shewd and effective one, uses (wait for it...)  Kent Desormeaux, Jose Ortiz, Eddie Castro and Omar Hernandez. 
[/quote

appears that just about every other jurisdiction but NYRA has honored Parx's ban of Juan Carlos Grabass
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