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Author Topic: pena feeling confident  (Read 2065 times)
Yimmy
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« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2012, 07:45:49 AM »

There is a vast difference between Dutrow and Pena; other trainers routinely claim from Dutrow, and claims out of Dutrow's barn generally do not fall apart on the next guy.

Mike Maker, a decent but by no means worldbeating trainer, took Sly Warrior from Dutrow out of a maiden 35 claimer and has now won two straight races (allowance company last out) with the hoss, at far higher numPerz than Dutrow had been able to get out of her.
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Hardline
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« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2012, 07:15:49 AM »

Folks we have all missed many points here.... a good legal team can prove that if you want to check Pena's vet records to prove him guilty of these things and he has passed the spit box, then you have set a new precedence and you must check all trainers vet records...... RIP
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Yimmy
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« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2012, 09:54:49 AM »

Nope.  The one who missed the point was you; this non-argument has been advanced here before (the word is "precedent", in any event), and it is legally a non-starter.

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Hardline
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« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2012, 10:07:00 AM »

As usual from reading most of your comments you are yet "Wrong Again"
Let be.....  head shake
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Yimmy
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« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2012, 10:13:03 AM »

Yes, yes, and also i Am a StoOpit pOopeyFace, twO, you forgot that one.

Seriously, what support do you have for the proposition you advanced?   
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Hardline
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« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2012, 10:32:07 AM »

Definitely don't need any from you-- Watch and see...


Not defending anyone here...
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2012, 10:53:49 AM »

The bottom line is all those withdrawal time violations should be on the Vet, not the trainer. I dont disagree that Pena (OR whoever was the actually the trainer of those horses, everyone knew Pena was just the name in the program) was using something, be it cat piss or some super synthetic drug, or whatever and NONE of the violations thay have him for helped him win ONE race, they are just a means to rid him from the game. Racing doesnt give a shit, they dont want to cut the ridiculous purses some of these tracks pay to help police the sport and actually try to clean up the game, so they make an end run and try to make people perceive that they care. Did they even test these horse? It is almost imcomprehensible to me that, say 600 of the 1700 horses won/were specialed and were tested, not a single one came up with an overage of any of the drugs.
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SHOWTIME!!!
Yimmy
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« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2012, 11:03:41 AM »

SCOTUS held 30+ years ago that the trainer responsibility rule in NY passed Constitutional muster.  As for better testing, there's little money and little support in the sport for it.  The claim that the NYSRWB didn't pull other trainers' vet records before (actually, we don't know this, do we?), even if established, is of no legal significance.
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newjackcity
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« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2012, 11:29:03 AM »

Respondeat superior.  maroon maroon maroon
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Hardline
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« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2012, 11:50:25 AM »

The hearing was put in front of plain old citizens---the lawyers love that kinda stuff...It disallows the Racing boards prejudice.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2012, 02:46:52 PM »

WHAT hearing was put in front of WHAT "plain old citizens?"
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hungry
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« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2012, 05:52:29 PM »

The bottom line is all those withdrawal time violations should be on the Vet, not the trainer. I dont disagree that Pena (OR whoever was the actually the trainer of those horses, everyone knew Pena was just the name in the program) was using something, be it cat piss or some super synthetic drug, or whatever and NONE of the violations thay have him for helped him win ONE race, they are just a means to rid him from the game. Racing doesnt give a shit, they dont want to cut the ridiculous purses some of these tracks pay to help police the sport and actually try to clean up the game, so they make an end run and try to make people perceive that they care. Did they even test these horse? It is almost imcomprehensible to me that, say 600 of the 1700 horses won/were specialed and were tested, not a single one came up with an overage of any of the drugs.

I think racetracks arent really too interested in one trainer winning a ton of races in overwhelming and dominant fashion. As a handicapper, the most important thing to me is that the races are competitive. When i sit down and decipher the PPs, i dont want to have to deal with a 'force' that has nothing to do with the actual horses.

Where i grew up, there were 2 racetracks across the street from each other. One track was called racehorse downs and the other track was called trainer downs. One track featured horse racing and the other track featured trainer racing. I sat down and thought about it for quite a while, hemmed and hawed and finally decided that i actually liked HORSE racing so i became a regular customer at racehorse downs. I did attend trainer downs on occasion but i felt that i didnt want to bet on humans and preferred to bet on actual horses....so, i chose racehorse downs as my track of choice.

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fuzzypants
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« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2012, 07:48:05 PM »

The bottom line is all those withdrawal time violations should be on the Vet, not the trainer. I dont disagree that Pena (OR whoever was the actually the trainer of those horses, everyone knew Pena was just the name in the program) was using something, be it cat piss or some super synthetic drug, or whatever and NONE of the violations thay have him for helped him win ONE race, they are just a means to rid him from the game. Racing doesnt give a shit, they dont want to cut the ridiculous purses some of these tracks pay to help police the sport and actually try to clean up the game, so they make an end run and try to make people perceive that they care. Did they even test these horse? It is almost imcomprehensible to me that, say 600 of the 1700 horses won/were specialed and were tested, not a single one came up with an overage of any of the drugs.
I disagree he's the one making the decision to use the vet! Also when a horse time frame is late to LASIx what usually happens ?
to say why didn't the test show high only creates more questions about Pena and not the States testing!
I don't see him getting out of this Commissions no such thing as supermans!
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Hardline
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« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2012, 09:10:36 PM »

"Pena said he was pleased that his case was being heard by a neutral people and not the Board.

"They were impartial and they now have all the facts. The truth will prevail in due time. I am looking forward to the outcome.

"Better days will come soon enough," Pena said."

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Yimmy
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« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2012, 09:16:03 PM »

I see.  So you have inferred from this that he got... a jury trial?   maroon
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Hardline
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« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2012, 09:19:02 PM »

Jury Trial.....??

Wake up Son.. this is not a criminal proceeding ..

God man the law has nothing to do with this case.


You seem to be a very confused individual for sure! dunno


Have you ever been a Owner,Driver,or Trainer of any kind of animal -- at all?

If not go Bye Bye... I'll bet you give your opinions on about 800 different type message boards??
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 09:25:52 PM by Hardline » Report to moderator   Logged
Yimmy
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« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2012, 09:27:19 PM »

Uh, NO... I'm not.  Many civil matters have jury trials, and some criminal cases (B misdemeanors and below, in NY) do NOT; welcome to the 21st century.  You said the case was heard by "plain old citizens"... who might these "plain old citizens (plural)" have been?  Housewives?  Layabouts?  Guys who hang out at the general store?
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supernaut
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« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2012, 12:27:23 AM »

Uh, NO... I'm not.  Many civil matters have jury trials, and some criminal cases (B misdemeanors and below, in NY) do NOT; welcome to the 21st century.  You said the case was heard by "plain old citizens"... who might these "plain old citizens (plural)" have been?  Housewives?  Layabouts?  Guys who hang out at the general store?

This is NOT a civil NOR criminal matter. It's an ADMINISTRATIVE law case. Completely different. At least in Illinois it is and I can't believe that it would be different in New York.
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supernaut
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« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2012, 12:33:55 AM »

The bottom line is all those withdrawal time violations should be on the Vet, not the trainer. I dont disagree that Pena (OR whoever was the actually the trainer of those horses, everyone knew Pena was just the name in the program) was using something, be it cat piss or some super synthetic drug, or whatever and NONE of the violations thay have him for helped him win ONE race, they are just a means to rid him from the game. Racing doesnt give a shit, they dont want to cut the ridiculous purses some of these tracks pay to help police the sport and actually try to clean up the game, so they make an end run and try to make people perceive that they care. Did they even test these horse? It is almost imcomprehensible to me that, say 600 of the 1700 horses won/were specialed and were tested, not a single one came up with an overage of any of the drugs.

The head of the testing for New York testified that for many of the prohibited time frame drugs-they had NO test. So they could NOT have a positive for those. He ALSO testified that it "could have been false negatives" that Pena had. I've heard of false positives but NEVER false negatives. Either it's there or it's not.IF there was something there, they would have a cloudy.Have to do more testing to try and find out what, exactly it was.  I would LOVE to have my lawyer get that guy on the stand under oath. He'd be back catching piss with a cup.
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newjackcity
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« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2012, 01:28:11 AM »

This is NOT a civil NOR criminal matter. It's an ADMINISTRATIVE law case. Completely different. At least in Illinois it is and I can't believe that it would be different in New York.
Most of us are aware of that...Tell it to that idiot Hardline and his "citiiens" that are supposedl hearing this matter.
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Hardline
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« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2012, 05:37:02 AM »

NewJack seems to be a joker as well?

We will guess that's where he gets his name...JackO_F..?  screw ball

StFup



Supernaut is right on target with his comments. trophy
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 05:40:55 AM by Hardline » Report to moderator   Logged
fuzzypants
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« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2012, 06:23:25 AM »

Never heard of false negatives?
U probably have just isn't caled that directly.
Diluted .
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newjackcity
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« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2012, 07:02:11 AM »

NewJack seems to be a joker as well?

We will guess that's where he gets his name...JackO_F..?  screw ball

StFup



Supernaut is right on target with his comments. trophy
wHO ARE THESE "CITIZENS" YOU IDIOT ?
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supernaut
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« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2012, 10:07:18 AM »

Never heard of false negatives?
U probably have just isn't caled that directly.
Diluted .


I raced horses for over 30 years and I have NEVER heard of a false negative. Lots of people got cloudys . NEVER a false positive.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2012, 11:06:29 AM »

The present application is not before an administrative board; the hearing was held in front of a jury of local yokels, by jings!! Justice of the NY State Supreme Court, pursuant to Article 78 of the NY CIVIL (cough!) Practice Laws And Rules.

Next!  head shake
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