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Author Topic: AP Race Selections Friday 8/31  (Read 1467 times)
Yimmy
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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2012, 09:21:44 AM »

2 seconds per occurrence: once on the backstretch behind the lake, and once on the turn. One is always free to measure this himself with a stopwatch, of course. And while you're at it, do take note of lack of position changes during those brief interludes.

Certainly true in the turf races, where it seems to be illegal to move any horse not on the lead before the final turn. Cheesy
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the exactorman
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« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2012, 11:01:19 AM »

When I complained about it, I believe Terry dismissed my complaint, saying my view couldn't be obstructed for more than 2 seconds. Anyone buying that?
I totally agreed with you after starting the thread. Several shot us down. After all, nothing really ever happens in a few seconds of a race.....
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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2012, 11:52:35 AM »

There. Fixed that up for ya.

What is it about a statement that ends with a binary "can't be proven or disproven" that requires fixing?

Really getting into that "Terry the Corrector" thing, I see.  thumbs up
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2012, 11:56:49 AM »

I totally agreed with you after starting the thread. Several shot us down. After all, nothing really ever happens in a few seconds of a race.....

Do feel free to point out anytime anything of significance apparently has happened (some big change in running order or position between going in and coming out) behind the Arlington trees, or for that matter behind that other big bugaboo of horse players, the Santa Anita big screen. I've just never seen the evidence, and that's from watching a lot of races specifically for it over the years, ever since Moon complained about it. Though I did once see a horse in an AP race make up about 2 lengths on the leaders.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2012, 12:02:14 PM »

What is it about a statement [why does it work?] that ends with a binary "can't be proven or disproven" that requires fixing?

The "why" wasn't the issue. The "working" was.
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« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2012, 12:07:47 PM »

2 seconds per occurrence: once on the backstretch behind the lake, and once on the turn. One is always free to measure this himself with a stopwatch, of course. And while you're at it, do take note of lack of position changes during those brief interludes.

Oh, now it's 2 seconds per occurrence?  Huh

Well, as long as we are modifying the original timing, we might as well get it right.

Using race 9 from Friday, watch the replay and use the time shown on the feed: it's 7:07 pm and change when the race starts. Obstructions:

* from 7:07:36 to 7:07:39

* again from 7:07:40 to 7:07:43

* then on the turn, from 7:07:53 to 7:07:56

That's just ridiculous, but it begs a more relevant question: why are there ANY obstructions? Could they plant even more trees, and make it even MORE fan-unfriendly?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2012, 12:12:01 PM »

The "why" wasn't the issue. The "working" was.

Look, I know what I wrote:

There are dozens of theories that are plausible but can't really be proven or disproven.

This statement is complete and required no fixing from you...but you had to get a cheap sidewinder in on Ragozin and Brown anyway. You aren't fooling anybody, Terry.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2012, 12:13:53 PM »

It really is an imposition to make the player watch any part of these here "races" at all.  Why don't they just run the entire race out of public view, and simply tell us who won afterwards?    Wink

Next up:  trees in the outfield at Wrigley!
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the exactorman
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« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2012, 12:17:56 PM »

Do feel free to point out anytime anything of significance apparently has happened (some big change in running order or position between going in and coming out) behind the Arlington trees, or for that matter behind that other big bugaboo of horse players, the Santa Anita big screen. I've just never seen the evidence, and that's from watching a lot of races specifically for it over the years, ever since Moon complained about it. Though I did once see a horse in an AP race make up about 2 lengths on the leaders.
I guess I am referring to wanting to see an entire race and not missing portions. I do not necessarily mean I have missed a horse making a last to first move in 2 seconds, I am referring to a jockey who might be wrangling a horse back, or someone in tight between horses. I will not win this arguement I guess because forests/trees/hedges/etc. will always be there. Maybe I am one of the few people who likes going to racetracks, watching races live with binoculars. I just have always felt many race tracks around the country care more about how an infield looks to people watching a TV feed across the country, than making their own "live race watching" fans happy.....you and anyone else has every right to disagree with me, however, I think there are some that will agree....
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« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2012, 12:21:02 PM »

Speaking of Del Mar's, it sure does seem predictable as long as the races have runners in them with actual pp's. The lightly raced maidens, though ... it's been bombs away. 

Well, this is why you need to follow the races more than a couple of days per month. Del Mar has been open since mid-July, you know. I've been handicapping and playing their turf races almost every card, and watching the syn races with the usual mix of disgust and bewilderment. Your statement may or may not be true for the few days you've been paying attention, but certainly false in describing this whole meeting.

I don't have time at the moment, but I will dig out all of the ball-buster, head-scratcher and Pick-6 destroyer bombs for the whole meet at Del Mar this year, and then we will see how many are "lightly raced maidens" (or firsters), and how many are just "Polytrack Miracles".
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Yimmy
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« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2012, 07:18:10 PM »

In Arlington's defense, they do seem to be some very NICE trees, and of different varieties to boot.  The one on the final turn seems to be a weeping willow, though of course it is difficult to identify trees from quite a long way away. Wink
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« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2012, 07:47:55 PM »

I have to totally agree. Watching the replays and losing sight of the horses behind all the obstructions is absurd.The argument that it's only for x amount of seconds and nothing really happens is ridiculous. If you can't understand why people want to see the entirety of a race,well I can't help you.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2012, 07:56:53 PM »

Oh, now it's 2 seconds per occurrence?  Huh

Well, as long as we are modifying the original timing, we might as well get it right.

It was always some number of seconds each of the two times they go behind the trees. You are the one who made the initial claim in this thread that it's only two seconds total.

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Using race 9 from Friday, watch the replay and use the time shown on the feed: it's 7:07 pm and change when the race starts. Obstructions:

* from 7:07:36 to 7:07:39

* again from 7:07:40 to 7:07:43

* then on the turn, from 7:07:53 to 7:07:56

So now we're talking about a turf race. Well, duh, the original conversation recognized the difference between the blockage of a main track race vs a turf race because the turf race is closer to the trees. So please try and apply the correct estimation of how much blockage there is.

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That's just ridiculous

No, it isn't. If your timings are correct, it was only 1/11 of the race, and by the looks of the chart, absolutely nothing of interest happened while the race was blocked, as is almost always the case.

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but it begs a more relevant question: why are there ANY obstructions?

Because the landscaping of the park is an important part of what attracts the casual customers who pay that fat admission and buy all those profitable concessions, while the 3% takeout they might be getting from your scofflaw unlicensed ADW as you sit at home isn't quite so profitable to them.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 08:07:48 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2012, 08:05:09 PM »

Look, I know what I wrote:

"There are dozens of theories that are plausible but can't really be proven or disproven."

That referred to why the 0-2-X "worked". And you specifically offered your own explanation as to "why". Good enough. No argument.

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This statement is complete and required no fixing from you

There was no fixing of it; it was a comment on the "it works" clause. It didn't.

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...but you had to get a cheap sidewinder in on Ragozin and Brown anyway. You aren't fooling anybody

So you DID figure out it was a comment on the accuracy of casting chicken bones with these patterns, like you just did in this thread and came up short, like Brown and etc. usually always do anytime they try to do it publicly ahead of time? Then why all the noise about correcting the "why"?
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"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2012, 08:12:10 PM »

I guess I am referring to wanting to see an entire race and not missing portions. I do not necessarily mean I have missed a horse making a last to first move in 2 seconds, I am referring to a jockey who might be wrangling a horse back, or someone in tight between horses. I will not win this arguement I guess because forests/trees/hedges/etc. will always be there.

There are always tradeoffs track managements have to make between competing interests. Arlington obviously considers their infield landscaping an important part of their appeal, and has for many years.

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Maybe I am one of the few people who likes going to racetracks, watching races live with binoculars. I just have always felt many race tracks around the country care more about how an infield looks to people watching a TV feed across the country, than making their own "live race watching" fans happy.....you and anyone else has every right to disagree with me, however, I think there are some that will agree....

I think AP feels their infield appeals to their live fans. If it was only simulcast they would cut it all down in a heartbeat.
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« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2012, 08:17:56 PM »

No, it isn't. If your timings are correct, it was only 1/11 of the race, and by the looks of the chart, absolutely nothing of interest happened while the race was blocked, as is almost always the case.


Hey, check out this naked hottie:



Well, she's not really naked, per se.  But she's only 1/11 covered up!  Wink  And there's prolly nothing of interest behind the covered parts.  Grin
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2012, 08:20:29 PM »

Well, this is why you need to follow the races more than a couple of days per month.

No, I actually do not need to follow "the races", as in Del Mar's, any more than I do. As this long weekend is the first time I have been here in some 7 or 8 years, it is also the only time in 7 or 8 years I have bet the track. Any other attention to it in the meantime would have been a total waste of my time.

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Del Mar has been open since mid-July, you know. I've been handicapping and playing their turf races almost every card, and watching the syn races with the usual mix of disgust and bewilderment.

That's quite nice. After 4 days and figuring out what's going on, I am now quite comfortably ahead. What the hell is your problem, professor?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2012, 08:23:07 PM »

Hey, check out this naked hottie:]

Well, she's not really naked, per se.  But she's only 1/11 covered up!  Wink  And there's prolly nothing of interest behind the covered parts.  Grin

There's nothing there you don't already know, just like the AP races.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2012, 08:33:42 PM »

I 'unno... some of the AP stuff is just weird.  You sure don't come across many jocks in NY named "Florent."  (And he doesn't even LOOK Gerouxish).
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2012, 08:38:33 PM »

I 'unno... some of the AP stuff is just weird.  You sure don't come across many jocks in NY named "Florent."  (And he doesn't even LOOK Gerouxish).

But we have no Jamaican jocks in Chicago like you do in NY, AFAIK.
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« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2012, 08:41:27 PM »

...and more Guyanese trainers than you can shake a stick at.

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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2012, 09:38:48 PM »

After 4 days and figuring out what's going on, I am now quite comfortably ahead.

OK, cliffyy, if you say so.  Roll Eyes

Ever notice how the folks from BTW that make the most money at the track don't disclose in advance what their selections are, nor how they came up with them?
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« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2012, 10:00:16 PM »

No dont want those odds to go down with all these low handles I guess  dunno dunno
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« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2012, 10:32:33 PM »

With simulcast views of the entire race where they show you the views hidden by trees, what is the problem?  Usually, you get two views: the head on and the side view.  It is good enough for the stewards so it should be good enough for the trip handicappers.  Of course, if you miss something, there are always the replays.  Part of the pastoral scene of horse racing is the trees, ponds, bushes, and flowers that make up the total picture of what you are experiencing.  For me, as long as no tree blocks the finish line, I am fine.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2012, 11:21:33 PM »

OK, cliffyy, if you say so.  Roll Eyes

Ever notice how the folks from BTW that make the most money at the track don't disclose in advance what their selections are, nor how they came up with them?

Such as those who claim the sheets 0-2-X (or whatever) works "everywhere" for big longshots, for instance, but the times they specifically do mention their picks, they totally tank?  

Yeah, I'd noticed that issue, too.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 11:25:00 PM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged

"There are no $7500 maiden claimers, state-bred or otherwise, at Arlington."
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