Yannick Gingras overrated?

[Blue Chip55]

Thats true. These 3 year olds need things to go the right way to beat each other. Nobody seems to be able to do it all on his own. Your guy fits right in with them---and he'll beat them at some point. How far back was the third horse yesterday

I think that says plenty

[hungry]

I really can't argue with your comments. With all that said, he has had his share of bad luck. Yesterday after WINNING his elim, he draws the 5???  The only good post he's drawn was in the NA Cup when he broke. Getting a trip once wouldn't hurt either. I think John has done a good job considering the early speed he showed so often last year.

But one thing you can't teach is 1:18.2, so I will be thankful and hope he will get a post or 2 and I will look ahead, not behind. Seems to me that all the 3 year olds need a trip this year???

I think the key is that you can't go to the 'bottom of the well' in all these races. There was a race at M a few lines down where he brushed and crushed and won by 8. Did he need to win by 8? Why not a measured 1 length win while saving something for next time?

Fast times and fast internals are impressive, but there's only so many strides in a horse's legs and body, you can't be pushing the button and wasting that energy because once you run  out, its very hard to get it back.

Your driver seems that he's driving this horse like a kid who first got his drivers license and the dad gave him the keys to the Ferrari. This is why i was questioning his being overrated, he got an incredible horse beat (and in the 2nd race got another horse beat that should have won) and when you find a way to get an incredible horse beat, you have to ask questions as to what happened.

He drove that race yesterday like the horse is a one dimensional front runnner who has to have the lead at all costs.

You know the saying "drive him like you own him?" Well, this driver doesnt seem to be driving this horse like he cares to leave anything left in the tank for later in the year or even next year. I'd suggest saving something for later.

[Yimmy]

I don't like Gingras one bit, but all the same, this endless invocation of the "tHaT jOckIe wAs a sToOpit-hEd" mantra is getting really tiresome. 

This is a top 3yo with wild speed who's raced quite well off the pace, it's not like he's some stone puller.  He went fast to the half in one race in Canuckistan last year for Luc.  Big deal... he recovered and came back to race another day.  Horses aren't machines, you can't whisper to them to back the half down to 58,  and the knee-jerk second-guess of "oh, he Should Of wEnted twO the haff sLowererer" is so facile and trite as to barely warrant comment.  He had the best horse, he put him on the engine on a speed-favoring track, and he got beat by the pocket horse in searingly fast time.  All the other 20-20 hindsight is a lot of bullshit.

[hungry]

I don't like Gingras one bit, but all the same, this endless invocation of the "tHaT jOckIe wAs a sToOpit-hEd" mantra is getting really tiresome. 

This is a top 3yo with wild speed who's raced quite well off the pace, it's not like he's some stone puller.  He went fast to the half in one race in Canuckistan last year for Luc.  Big deal... he recovered and came back to race another day.  Horses aren't machines, you can't whisper to them to back the half down to 58,  and the knee-jerk second-guess of "oh, he Should Of wEnted twO the haff sLowererer" is so facile and trite as to barely warrant comment.  He had the best horse, he put him on the engine on a speed-favoring track, and he got beat by the pocket horse in searingly fast time.  All the other 20-20 hindsight is a lot of bullshit.

Your comments have some validity, but wouldnt you say its responsible to 'manage' a horse rather than just hand the driver the lines and say good luck? If you bet horses, you can't get too caught up this stuff, but if you own a top horse, you want to make sure your horse is being driven the best he can be and not the guy just 'cowboying up' and sending the horse on a suicide mission.

[Yimmy]

What does going to a fast half have to do with "management?"

I'm sure many owners have given quite a bit of advice to drivers on how to handle their horses, and I'm sure that one such driver, perhaps around 1954 or so, may have at least pretended to listen.

[Dolfan]

The thread questioning a talent like Gingras is pretty silly.  And picking on him on a day where he had 2 losing favorites is easy to do.  Sears & Brennan didn't win a race either & Pierce only managed a front end victory in the opener.  It was a day where allot of 1st over horses won, which is unusual.  Dave Miller, who had a big day, should be subjected to more criticism for his insane drive on To Dream On, a dominant trotter who dragged Miller across the line.

But one thing you can't teach is 1:18.2, so I will be thankful and hope he will get a post or 2 and I will look ahead, not behind. Seems to me that all the 3 year olds need a trip this year???

I don't think there's any doubt that you have the fastest horse.  It would eat me up knowing that he hasn't won anything big & is the fastest.  I'm really not trying to beat up on *** - I don't know him at all.  But as an owner, I'd be questioning why I have the only top 3 year old who can't rate.  Time is running out on you but it's not too late yet.

[king151]

I really didnt want to post a comment on this subject .  I am friends with J.*** . Not great friends like we spend hollidays together but friends all the same.
 I dont  for one second think that HKK is  a great horse . Fast yes , fast like Its Fritz  . And I dont think  he is unrateable . I think the object of Saturdays fractions was everyone involved was looking  for a world record . I watched him go the most amazing mile I have ever  seen at Pcd . in  the elimination .  And he came from off the pace and circled the field like they were standing still . And it looked like he was sitting pretty comfortable till he made his move .  I think  had  the horse been able to shake Panther  around  the last turn and have a  3  lenth lead  at the head of the lane I think he  wins by open lenghts.  Bottom line I think he likes beating up on inferior competition . He swells up on an  open lead . I think he is the opposite of every top Cams Card Shark I can remember . He has no fight . When he has a horse that can go with him he wont fight one off, if he cant just do it on natural ability and has to dig deep. Now dont get me wrong I would love to train or own the horse , but I would not for one second think  he was a great horse . I will qualify this statement  by admitting I trained a horse alot like HKK , Four Starz Sisco . For those dont remember he  was an extremely fast horse that was far from  a fighter . A quick story. Bob Mcintosh who had Ponder the same year told me at the Provincial Cup that the only horse he was worried about was Sisco . He had freakish speed but was a very chicken hearted horse .

[mitcky]

I will refrain from posting anymore about this colt (I'm too close) but I will reitirate....WHAT 3 year old has won WITHOUT a trip this year? And not one of the "experts" on this board has mentioned Bolt the Duer beating ARocknRoll Dance in similar fashion??

[burton]

Intersting observation by king 151 who I am glad to see posting.
My thanks also to Mitchky for posting here and talking about this horse.
My comments about him being over rate aside, he is a nice horse.
But not a great one.
There are lots of good horses who are overrated.
Sweet Lou comes to mind.
Many posters have really let Sweet Lou and his connections have it these last few weeks yet talk about Hurrican Kingcole like he is Niatross.
FYI, Sweet Lou has beaten HKC three times this year.

My best to Mitchky who I hope does really really well with this horse.

[mitcky]

Burton,

Thanks. I've been buying babies for 13 years and am honored to be a part of a this colt. It is highly likely I will never get another like him.

Everyone can criticize all they want, but this colt owes me nothing. He's giving me great thrills and he's only been racing for less than a season in half.

[burton]

Burton,

Thanks. I've been buying babies for 13 years and am honored to be a part of a this colt. It is highly likely I will never get another like him.

Everyone can criticize all they want, but this colt owes me nothing. He's giving me great thrills and he's only been racing for less than a season in half.

Most of us are fans and have lots of opinions, myself included. We're right a lot and wrong a lot.
But thanks for having such class and I for one hope you stick around a nd post about anything.
Even HKC.
Thanks and good luck!

[king151]

Mitcky ,  I agree  with you 1000% this  is  a very even bunch of colt  with no stand out . And I dont want to disrespect anyones horse and if you look at my past posts on this site  I have never done so .
The point to my  long winded post was that I  thought  the objective  of Saturdays race was to set a world record . I  dont think he is one deminsonal or a speed rat . I just dont think  he is a great horse . And  believe me I reserve the word great for very few horses . Moni Maker , Rock N Roll Heaven , Somebeachsomewhere, Niatross , you get the jest. And again  I would Love to own or train a horse with his talent . And I say that knowing how few horses have his talent and have been LUCKY enough to train what I consider a great horse . And I wish you nothing but the most of luck the rest of the year .

[mitcky]

Mitcky ,  I agree  with you 1000% this  is  a very even bunch of colt  with no stand out . And I dont want to disrespect anyones horse and if you look at my past posts on this site  I have never done so .
The point to my  long winded post was that I  thought  the objective  of Saturdays race was to set a world record . I  dont think he is one deminsonal or a speed rat . I just dont think  he is a great horse . And  believe me I reserve the word great for very few horses . Moni Maker , Rock N Roll Heaven , Somebeachsomewhere, Niatross , you get the jest. And again  I would Love to own or train a horse with his talent . And I say that knowing how few horses have his talent and have been LUCKY enough to train what I consider a great horse . And I wish you nothing but the most of luck the rest of the year .

Perfectly fair and reasonable comments and I appreciate kind words.

[Yimmy]

I still think this is the best 3yo pacer I've seen this year, and the stuff about him being unrateable is based on... what, one race this year and one race last year?  Meanwhile the horse has come from behind with the greatest ease.  Don't get it.

[mitcky]

I still think this is the best 3yo pacer I've seen this year, and the stuff about him being unrateable is based on... what, one race this year and one race last year?  Meanwhile the horse has come from behind with the greatest ease.  Don't get it.

Yup 

[Juicejunkies]

I still think this is the best 3yo pacer I've seen this year, and the stuff about him being unrateable is based on... what, one race this year and one race last year?  Meanwhile the horse has come from behind with the greatest ease.  Don't get it.

yoUd be KiTTen mE. riGHt?
BOreDUM saYs ottER wiSE.
hE knOwS, beRRy INtelliGENT.
EyE CHecKed hiS crEDentiALs.
caTHoLIC cOLLege GradUmaTEd.

[Yimmy]

i aM a jOosh whoSe an adVokIt of caThoLlic eDumaKation.

gO fiGgure!

[Blue Chip55]

Intersting observation by king 151 who I am glad to see posting.
My thanks also to Mitchky for posting here and talking about this horse.
My comments about him being over rate aside, he is a nice horse.
But not a great one.
There are lots of good horses who are overrated.
Sweet Lou comes to mind.
Many posters have really let Sweet Lou and his connections have it these last few weeks yet talk about Hurrican Kingcole like he is Niatross.
FYI, Sweet Lou has beaten HKC three times this year.

My best to Mitchky who I hope does really really well with this horse.

Hes much better than Sweet Lou Burton
Do you really hope he does well with the horse as you say you do ?
I wonder

[Yimmy]

Can't vouch for the absolute accuracy of the numPer, but I had my son work with me to hand-time HKC's *actual mile time* in that race up in Canuckistan in which he broke before the start, and we got 1:45.  Now this is a difficult call, since the camera angle makes it difficult to determine where the actual starting point there is, but even if we're off by a full second, that's some blewdy performance. 

[king151]

Hes much better than Sweet Lou Burton
Do you really hope he does well with the horse as you say you do ?
I wonder

CPW,I have to disagree HKK was not last years 2yo of the year nor has he made around a million  dollars nor has he beat the best of his crop when the money was  on the  line

[Yimmy]

The year is young yet...

[Blue Chip55]

CPW,I have to disagree HKK was not last years 2yo of the year nor has he made around a million  dollars nor has he beat the best of his crop when the money was  on the  line

Yes but Im still entitled to feel that way
I want my Rambling Willie book back now  
I relly dont like Sweet Lou at all. He really isnt all that
I thought HKC raced big with a real trouble trip in the Adios Elim

[Juicejunkies]

CPW,I have to disagree HKK was not last years 2yo of the year nor has he made around a million  dollars nor has he beat the best of his crop when the money was  on the  line

This is a tough luck colt Dave.
Personally I don't think they have the right set of hands behind him yet.
Needs someone easy on a horse...Sears might be a better fit and it suits Sears style to come from behind and relax a nut.

I like the hornet, but he is hard on horses IMHO.

[king151]

CPW, I think HKK is the fastest horse of his crop but my opinnion stands .

[JoeB]

havent seen enough of this particular horse to comment,,,but i will say this much....talent and heart are two completely separate qualities in a racehorse.....there are 4 claimers whose fight and heart are to be envied by some pacers who have the talent to pace in 150...as a fan i love to watch a horse race who has that fight and heart....sure i love to watch a fast group of ffa llers race  just like everyone does...but i also love to watch a cheap race where the winner shows that heart and determination to win even in a slow time...anyone else agree??

and kudos to the owner of HKC for posting here......makes the forum a quality place to read...so thanks and hope this horse gives you lots of thrills going forward...if he does..come on here and let us all know how it feels...joe b