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Author Topic: HAWTHORNE HANDLE OUTSTANDING !!!!!!  (Read 3675 times)
Dan Nance
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« on: May 25, 2006, 11:57:28 AM »

I'm watching the races last night at the Suncoast and I noticed that one race had a combined handle of over $141,000 and that was going up against the Big M. 

   Does anyone know what the daily average handle has been at Hawthorne? I'm being told that the puses are going to go way up the last 2 weeks of the meet because they have all kinds of extra money sitting in the horseman's account because of the outstanding handle so far.

   If Hawthorne is not awarded at least 4 months of harness racing by the IRB next summer it will be a great injustice to the industry.

   Start making calls now to Ms. Propes and voice your opinion that Hawthorne and the horseman deserve minimum of 4 months next summer. They should race at Hawthorne from May 6th to Sept. 6th and then let Balmoral have their slowly dieing in popularity " Super Night ". 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2006, 12:19:55 PM by Dan Nance » Report to moderator   Logged
Mr Peanut
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2006, 12:02:38 PM »

its true hawthorne is kiking major ass with on the track betting.  it wont matter because the racing board will prolly give them 10 days of harness next year.  lol  every year when they kick bal and may ass in handle and on tracl people the racing board gets mad and takes more days away.  i look for hawthorne to get 10 days of harness racing next year.  about the same number of days at springfiled because propes and lano dont like it when hawthorne makes bal and may look stupid.  the owners pay them guys off so that they get more days.  haw has honest owners and they wont pay off the racing board and thats why they keep taking away more days of harness at haw.  next year haw will race from may 2 to may 12.  10 days lol.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2006, 12:13:32 PM »

its true hawthorne is kiking major ass with on the track betting.  it wont matter because the racing board will prolly give them 10 days of harness next year.  lol  every year when they kick bal and may ass in handle and on tracl people the racing board gets mad and takes more days away.  i look for hawthorne to get 10 days of harness racing next year.  about the same number of days at springfiled because propes and lano dont like it when hawthorne makes bal and may look stupid.  the owners pay them guys off so that they get more days.  haw has honest owners and they wont pay off the racing board and thats why they keep taking away more days of harness at haw.  next year haw will race from may 2 to may 12.  10 days lol.

I believe that if the IRB stiffs Hawthorne next year the whole board will be looking for new jobs.

    They tell me that if Hawthorne doesn't get at least 4 months next summer the horseman are going to throw the biggest fit and sit out under protest as long as it takes for the IRB to award Hawthorne and the horseman the harness dates they deserve for the betterment of the industry. The horseman are fed up with the bullshit handed to them by the IRB.

    Now, the board members can sit on that and think about it for the next 4 months.   
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theiman
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2006, 12:42:35 PM »

Seems to me that BTW has tremendous influence in the industry. I would suggest every person on this board contact, and keep contacting the IRB until they get sick of it and award the dates. You dont have to be a horseman or owner either. I will contact them as a bettor and advise them I will only wager my $$ on a superior product and Hawthorne is the only superior product in Illinois.

Unless of course the kickbacks from Crimeoral and Gaywood are upped and the IRB continues to look the other way.

I dont know how IRB officers gets their positions, but pressure better come on those decision makers too.

Two prominent horseman are out of jobs because of constant cheating and constant pressure from the fans not to let them get away.

Had there been no BTW Forum, nobody might have given two hoots about those dogs.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2006, 12:51:23 PM »

Seems to me that BTW has tremendous influence in the industry. I would suggest every person on this board contact, and keep contacting the IRB until they get sick of it and award the dates. You dont have to be a horseman or owner either. I will contact them as a bettor and advise them I will only wager my $$ on a superior product and Hawthorne is the only superior product in Illinois.

Unless of course the kickbacks from Crimeoral and Gaywood are upped and the IRB continues to look the other way.

I dont know how IRB officers gets their positions, but pressure better come on those decision makers too.

Two prominent horseman are out of jobs because of constant cheating and constant pressure from the fans not to let them get away.

Had there been no BTW Forum, nobody might have given two hoots about those dogs.


I agree. As far as kickbacks go I don't think anyone wants the Feds crawling up thier ass with a microscope. Let them all learn some lessons from George Ryan if they have been taking money under the table. 
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Mr Peanut
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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2006, 01:19:08 PM »

please mr lano and mis propes give us 10 or 15 days of harness racing next year at haw.  lol lol  maybe we can get reel lucky and get 30 days at haw.  lol  thank you lano and propes for being so honest and nice to haw.  lol
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Ironworks
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« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2006, 02:22:30 PM »

Dan,

Any word on the size of the purse increases?  As always, thanks for the information and the updates.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2006, 02:29:12 PM »

Dan,

Any word on the size of the purse increases?  As always, thanks for the information and the updates.

I was told that Mike A. told someone that the purses could almost double during the last 2 weeks of the meet but I don't know if that's the case. 
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Mr Peanut
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« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2006, 02:50:42 PM »

dont beeleve mike antonades because he is a maywood ass licker.  he love langely and johnsons so he talk bad about haw.  mike very bad horse picker always bet chalks and 6 to 5 shots.  he tell on ron marsh and get his suspendee for long time.  thank you mike but you not a good horse picker.  robin give you all the money from big florida aquirim man.  you blow all the money bett on chalks.  yuckie.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2006, 02:56:10 PM »

Mike A. knows what's going on. Mike may be a management guy but he's alwys been OK in my book. If he did ever talk shit about the Nance's behind our back I NEVER heard about it.

    Mike's info is usually dead on. I would take anything he says to the bank.
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Mr Peanut
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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2006, 02:59:36 PM »

mike say ron marsh stiff race when pelling cash all the tickets.  he tell langley and langleys suspendee marsh forever.  mike get big money from dan florida aquiriam man and fat man al l.  mike owe bookie lots of money and now stay with robin hiding at farm.  he love johnson and langley.  i laff when he try to pick horse on tv and lose at 6 to 5.  lol
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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2006, 03:37:28 PM »

I'm watching the races last night at the Suncoast and I noticed that one race had a combined handle of over $141,000 and that was going up against the Big M. 

   Does anyone know what the daily average handle has been at Hawthorne? I'm being told that the puses are going to go way up the last 2 weeks of the meet because they have all kinds of extra money sitting in the horseman's account because of the outstanding handle so far.

   If Hawthorne is not awarded at least 4 months of harness racing by the IRB next summer it will be a great injustice to the industry.

   Start making calls now to Ms. Propes and voice your opinion that Hawthorne and the horseman deserve minimum of 4 months next summer. They should race at Hawthorne from May 6th to Sept. 6th and then let Balmoral have their slowly dieing in popularity " Super Night ". 


From what I've seen, the handle hasn't differed all that much from Balmoral.  I'll see if I can drudge up some numbers for comparison sakes...

I would highly doubt the purses will nearly double -- as that would take some phenominal handle that I just haven't seen...hope I'm wrong, however.

I'll check into it.

Best,
EW
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2006, 03:40:19 PM »

From what I've seen, the handle hasn't differed all that much from Balmoral.  I'll see if I can drudge up some numbers for comparison sakes...

I would highly doubt the purses will nearly double -- as that would take some phenominal handle that I just haven't seen...hope I'm wrong, however.

I'll check into it.

Best,
EW

Numbers would be nice.
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emp
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« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2006, 03:47:26 PM »

From what I've seen, the handle hasn't differed all that much from Balmoral.  I'll see if I can drudge up some numbers for comparison sakes...

I would highly doubt the purses will nearly double -- as that would take some phenominal handle that I just haven't seen...hope I'm wrong, however.

I'll check into it.

Best,
EW

Hey EW, don't bother with FOIA requests to get handle information as the IRB has already sent me several letters (which I fought directly with the Attorney General's office) denying reports they'd printed on a daily basis every month for a while. Their excuse was that they were understaffed and that they didn't have enough time to do so.

Check page 11 from the LAST ISSUE, in print of The HV for the entire story with FOIA info from pages 12-end.

http://www.horsemansvoice.com/Publish%20Me!!!/HV_021105_14th_Edition.doc

They must be spending too much time reading posts, like this one, or printing them out. So if anyone from the IRB, Department of Revenue  or the Attorney General's office is reading this on their computer or on a piece of paper from a printout..... good day people!
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2006, 04:29:42 PM »

Are you guys telling that the handle is being hidden from the public? I don't understand this at all. The handle should be printed on the charts like it is at the Big M.

   More bullshit from the " City Of Corruption " Chicago Illinois. The city I am ashamed to have been born in because of all it's corruption.
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emp
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« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2006, 05:08:19 PM »

Are you guys telling that the handle is being hidden from the public? I don't understand this at all. The handle should be printed on the charts like it is at the Big M.

   More bullshit from the " City Of Corruption " Chicago Illinois. The city I am ashamed to have been born in because of all it's corruption.

NUMBERS TALK AND PEOPLE LIE
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2006, 05:13:43 PM »

Are you guys telling that the handle is being hidden from the public? I don't understand this at all. The handle should be printed on the charts like it is at the Big M.

   More bullshit from the " City Of Corruption " Chicago Illinois. The city I am ashamed to have been born in because of all it's corruption.


The handle IS printed on the charts.  Not sure why they weren't willing to satisfy Eric's request.

I pulled out the charts, and Hawthorne is beating Balmoral by roughly 6-9%.  The rumor is that the majority of the advantage comes from on-track handle.  That would make sense given the location.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2006, 05:51:48 PM »

Dan:

     I have heard through the grapevine that through many lobbying efforts, this years date allocations will be carefully monitored by some high up folks in Springfield.  Unless the Johnston's get to them, Hawthorne will receive four or five months. 

     This nonsense has gone on long enough.  The IRB finally has big brother watching their every move, and I promise you that this year they will have to justify their decision as to why each track received what they did.  No more hiding under the covers.  It should be interesting.  Take care in sunny Vegas, home of the UNLV Runnin Rebels and best college basketball coach ever, Tark the Shark!

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras (I sign my name to my posts!)
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AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
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« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2006, 05:56:04 PM »

Call your state reps and ask them to nominate Joseph Besco to the racing board. I will sell my horses and serve honestly!
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« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2006, 07:25:17 PM »

Call your state reps and ask them to nominate Joseph Besco to the racing board. I will sell my horses and serve honestly!
Joe, you as member of the racing board would be better than those graft takers earning side cash from the Gestapo.  Hawthorne is doing nicely, and I expect them to receive more dates next season.   trotter  TC
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Mr Peanut
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« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2006, 08:16:54 PM »

all of u at racing board can haw. have 4 or 5 more days next year of harness racing.  lol lol maybee u can give them 42 or 45 days of harness next year mis propes and merk lano.  lol lol lol  please just a few more days so haw. can kick bal or may ass again.  maybee if haw. gives lano and propes free clubhouse dinner like johnsons they get as many days they want.  lol lol lol
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2006, 11:17:36 AM »

Dan:

     I have heard through the grapevine that through many lobbying efforts, this years date allocations will be carefully monitored by some high up folks in Springfield.  Unless the Johnston's get to them, Hawthorne will receive four or five months. 

     This nonsense has gone on long enough.  The IRB finally has big brother watching their every move, and I promise you that this year they will have to justify their decision as to why each track received what they did.  No more hiding under the covers.  It should be interesting.  Take care in sunny Vegas, home of the UNLV Runnin Rebels and best college basketball coach ever, Tark the Shark!

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras (I sign my name to my posts!)


Joe
         I don't think the Johnston's are getting to anyone this time around. Nobody on the board wants to share a jail cell with George Ryan.

         
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2006, 11:37:26 AM »

Joe
         I don't think the Johnston's are getting to anyone this time around. Nobody on the board wants to share a jail cell with George Ryan.

         



I think BTW will have an effect on future racing dates.

Reward the tracks who are interested in the end product.

Nothing like competition to bring the best out of everyone.

Dan, the Casinos in Las Vegas are competing for the dollar.

Great to be in a free enterprise system.

Kenneth J. Chadwick   
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« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2006, 12:41:33 PM »

Joe
 I don't think the Johnston's are getting to anyone this time around. Nobody on the board wants to share a jail cell with George Ryan.

 

That is if they had half a brain!
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tonymfan
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« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2006, 12:49:31 PM »

That is if they had half a brain!

Have you ever sat down with any of the commissioners and talked to them about the decisions they make? An elected official like you should be able to get access.
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« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2006, 01:09:55 PM »

Have you ever sat down with any of the commissioners and talked to them about the decisions they make? An elected official like you should be able to get access.



     
Tonymfan:

     If an elected official like Joe Besco sat down with the IRB and spoke honestly and openly about the illegalities in the industry, Marc Laino would ask him to leave and vow to never talk with him again.  Marc Laino does not want to hear any truths or facts about what type of job his board has done and how they have contributed to harness racings downfall in Illinois.  Marc is a quick-tempered guy who hung up the phone on me after he was upset because I was posting on BTW. I have not spoke to him since, (over a year ago) and have no desire to.  He is an a-number one ***hole who is in the wrong position at the IRB, in my opinion. 

      If Joe Besco can talk with other IRB members aside from Laino, Propes and Kalieda, he might have a chance at explaining some of the past improprieties done by both the IRB and horsemen.   The problem is that as soon as he mentions the IRB and the horrible job they have done, most members don't want to face that fact.  They make some sort of excuse instead of trying to keep an open mind towards making the industry better.  There is a time when people need to be held accountable and the IRB's time is now. Stop allowing Billy Johnston and Dickie D to dictate what they want and do what is in the best interest of the state of Illinois, the collective industries, and the horsemen and fans.  Until that happens, you will continue to see the harness game at it present status.  Just my opinion.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras

   
« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 01:11:54 PM by JDakuras » Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
tonymfan
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« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2006, 01:16:05 PM »

If an elected official like Joe Besco sat down with the IRB and spoke honestly and openly about the illegalities in the industry, Marc Laino would ask him to leave and vow to never talk with him again.

I didn't suggest Joe should sit down and talk about illegalities because there are no proven illegalities to talk about. My suggestion was he sit down to talk to them about how the dates get awarded and why.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2006, 01:18:10 PM »



     
Tonymfan:

     If an elected official like Joe Besco sat down with the IRB and spoke honestly and openly about the illegalities in the industry, Marc Laino would ask him to leave and vow to never talk with him again.  Marc Laino does not want to hear any truths or facts about what type of job his board has done and how they have contributed to harness racings downfall in Illinois.  Marc is a quick-tempered guy who hung up the phone on me after he was upset because I was posting on BTW. I have not spoke to him since, (over a year ago) and have no desire to.  He is an a-number one ***hole who is in the wrong position at the IRB, in my opinion. 

      If Joe Besco can talk with other IRB members aside from Laino, Propes and Kalieda, he might have a chance at explaining some of the past improprieties done by both the IRB and horsemen.   The problem is that as soon as he mentions the IRB and the horrible job they have done, most members don't want to face that fact.  They make some sort of excuse instead of trying to keep an open mind towards making the industry better.  There is a time when people need to be held accountable and the IRB's time is now. Stop allowing Billy Johnston and Dickie D to dictate what they want and do what is in the best interest of the state of Illinois, the collective industries, and the horsemen and fans.  Until that happens, you will continue to see the harness game at it present status.  Just my opinion.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras

   

Joe
         They won't stop doing this until a few of them share a jail cell with George Ryan for taking payoffs under the table. You can't convince me otherwise that this is not going on when you consider the allocations of harness dates that are issued year after year with no regards to what is in the best interest of the industry.

          I hope Mr. Laino doesn't have the same temper as Eric Plowman has since you say he has a bad temper and will kick you out of any board meeting if he doesn't like what you are saying or if you post on BTW.  
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« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2006, 01:32:05 PM »

I didn't suggest Joe should sit down and talk about illegalities because there are no proven illegalities to talk about. My suggestion was he sit down to talk to them about how the dates get awarded and why.

Tonymfan:

     The other way to make things better is to talk about them, no?  That is a problem for Marc Laino.  Whenever anyone wishes to discuss something and ask for an explanation, he gets angered and either hangs up the phone or won't address the topic of discussion. 

     Example: last year many horsemen stated their dissatisfaction about the allocation of harness dates, especially in terms of what Hawthorne received.  They requested an explanation and overview of why it ended up like such and tally of how each board member voted.  NO WAY IN HELL.    Propes and Laino said we don't have to discuss it or let anyone know which way we voted.  Now ask yourself this question.  Considering the situation and reputation the IRB has, wouldn't you want to clear the air and be proud of the job you did?  When a response is such, it leads people to think the worst and it just looks suspect.  I'm not saying they did anything wrong, but why not show it and end all suspicion? 

     When you have people acting in this manner, let me just say that it is not in the best decision that they be part of an agency like the IRB.  Let me remind you that the IRB is a state agency that should field consumer complaints/ideas/suggestions.  This IRB feels they do not want to be bothered.  That is terribly wrong and tyrannical, period.  That’s all I have to say on the matter.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
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AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
Dan Nance
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« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2006, 11:22:51 PM »

$181,000 bet in the last race on Sat. night. Show me where Balmoral or Maywood has ever handled 181K in one race.

     Are you hearing me IRB ??
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off stride
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« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2006, 11:45:25 PM »

all of us at raceway noticed that 30k super pool on the last race as well.. first class racing, by a first class operation  .. it is a shame there is only 3 weeks left in the meet..
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« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2006, 01:24:23 AM »

$181,000 bet in the last race on Sat. night. Show me where Balmoral or Maywood has ever handled 181K in one race.

     Are you hearing me IRB ??


It happens all the time, Dan.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2006, 10:46:35 AM »

This is the 1st time I ever bet on Haw. harness racing.  I live in CA and never had an interest in Haw. until the last year or so.  I cahsed a nice ticket last night on the big driver change on he wants it all from magee off to morgan on.  6.40 was a gift.  I agree with the person who said Haw racing looks more on the up and up and it just seems better than maywood.  I like mile racing better and Haw. has nice size fileds and perfect size stretch for every horse to give it there all.  I dont no what your state is thinking but u guys should race way more at Haw. than maywood.  Its like comparing salt to pepper.
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« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2006, 10:54:40 AM »

This is the 1st time I ever bet on Haw. harness racing.  I live in CA and never had an interest in Haw. until the last year or so.  I cahsed a nice ticket last night on the big driver change on he wants it all from magee off to morgan on.  6.40 was a gift.  I agree with the person who said Haw racing looks more on the up and up and it just seems better than maywood.  I like mile racing better and Haw. has nice size fileds and perfect size stretch for every horse to give it there all.  I dont no what your state is thinking but u guys should race way more at Haw. than maywood.  Its like comparing salt to pepper.
Trottin', Maywood is a diseased scumhole chock-full of urban filth.  I feel bad for Ken Kiehn who looks like the little Dutch boy, plugging all the societal holes with all 10 fingers.  He should be promoted and be given a company luxury SUV / gas credit card so he can shepherd Balmoral.  I know he'd do something about all the cancer there - both cigarette / cigar smoke and the few scrounges that poison the atmosphere in Crete.  If the IRB doesn't sanction Maywood by giving them less and less dates, the game is doomed here no matter how much riverboat stipends the tracks receive.  It's time to turn IL into a mile harness mecca with big fields in every race.   trotter  TC   P.S. I bet HWIA too and got a scare when WV came screaming up the rail the last 30 yards.  Luckilly, the photo went our way.  At least that cheater trainer horse Gene Carter got slapped around  - again (a nice bonus).
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2006, 01:37:55 PM »

It happens all the time, Dan.

Best,
EW

Yeah, maybe at Hawthorne but not at Maywood or Balmoral. " SHOW ME THE HANDLE "
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« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2006, 01:54:17 PM »

Yeah, maybe at Hawthorne but not at Maywood or Balmoral. " SHOW ME THE HANDLE "

The total numbers at Balmoral and Hawthorne are fairly close this year.  From what I understand, Hawthorne is crushing them on-track, but the total handle isn't differing much at all.

I do, however, believe that if given a proper meet, you would see Hawthorne outhandle Balmoral by 15-20%.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2006, 02:01:24 PM »

I agree with Ed.  Haw. is a way better track all around.  They should make Haw. the only harness meet you guys have in Ill.  Maywood and bal. are shitholes and people in CA are shying away from betting them.  I only started playing Haw. for a year or so and I love it.  I dont bother with maywood or bal.  Haw. is a nice track and we great a great signal out here in CA.  I hope youi guys get harness racing back on track in Ill. because you can see what happened in CA.  We only have SAc. for harness and los al dont want us anymore.  All of you guys should tell the right people in charge that people are not going to bet on maywood or bal. and haw should be your premier track for harness in your state.  I hope haw. races for 8 months next year of harness.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2006, 04:29:51 PM »

I agree with Ed.  Haw. is a way better track all around.  They should make Haw. the only harness meet you guys have in Ill.  Maywood and bal. are shitholes and people in CA are shying away from betting them.  I only started playing Haw. for a year or so and I love it.  I dont bother with maywood or bal.  Haw. is a nice track and we great a great signal out here in CA.  I hope youi guys get harness racing back on track in Ill. because you can see what happened in CA.  We only have SAc. for harness and los al dont want us anymore.  All of you guys should tell the right people in charge that people are not going to bet on maywood or bal. and haw should be your premier track for harness in your state.  I hope haw. races for 8 months next year of harness.

You and other people in the country need to call the Illinois Racing Board and tell them how you feel about Hawthorne.

    Tell them you don't bet Balmoral and Maywood and tell them why. Tell them you would like to see 5 months of harness racing at Hawthorne next summer.

    We need everyone's help because the Racing Board awards all the dates to Balmoral and Maywood for some reason. Many say because the Johnston's pay off board members.
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« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2006, 11:13:19 AM »

Sorry I have been out of town again and didnt get a chance to respond to this thread.
I have to say to Tony I have spoken to the Gov. face to face and he knows my desire to serve on the racing board, but in my oppinion both sides need to show support. And yes you are correct it does help already being in office to make contacts in the political world. When pushing for legislation I think raw numbers in volume speak louder!
My views in regards to the racing board are that they generaly dont have any experance in the industry untill they get appointed and it is usually a political appointment.
Thanks to all. Good luck and good racing!
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« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2006, 11:21:09 PM »

What are the % of fav wins/ITM, hawthorne vs. Balmoral. To me, Balmoral seemed like a chalk-fest especially towards the end of this past meet with the short fields. Hawthorne is much the better meet.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2006, 11:22:55 PM »

What are the % of fav wins/ITM, hawthorne vs. Balmoral. To me, Balmoral seemed like a chalk-fest especially towards the end of this past meet with the short fields. Hawthorne is much the better meet.

Balmoral is not even related to a real racetrack.
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« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2006, 11:57:37 PM »

Has anyone entertained the idea that maybe Hawthorne does not WANT the extra dates??
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« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2006, 12:25:05 AM »

Has anyone entertained the idea that maybe Hawthorne does not WANT the extra dates??

There's no reason not to want extra dates while Arlington has the flats.  I do, however, fully believe that they would not want to exchange flats dates for harness dates.

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EW
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« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2006, 02:01:52 AM »

IRB meetings and minutes are public, no?

What is the DiSCUSSION about dates? Not just the decision, but the discussion. Surely there's more than conspiracy theory to inform the dates debate?

I like Hawthorne also. I DIG the Frog, though my best scores have been off-Frog.

Hold up your head, Frog Dooley ... good job on a 'capper's diary.







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