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Author Topic: Doug o Neill criticism by penny chenery  (Read 2091 times)
journalstuff
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« on: May 30, 2012, 11:43:49 PM »

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/sports/article/I-ll-Have-Another-s-trainer-responds-to-criticism-3592723.php
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JoeMama
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« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2012, 12:59:16 AM »

It is interesting that she would be this vocal.
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hungry
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« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2012, 01:57:42 AM »

She's vocal because she doesnt want to share the spotlight with these connections. Being a TC winner is a small  but very select club and since she has the horse many feel is the greatest TC winner in history, she's kind of the de facto 'president' of this select club. She's in mental pain that she might have to let these people into her club and it bugs the heck out of her.

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n3dsports
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« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2012, 05:30:04 AM »

Good point hungry.  Could it also be that once you have a new TC winner that some of the spotlight will be taken off Big Red and put on the newest coolest thing?
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horsplay
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« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2012, 07:48:04 AM »

Interesting.  If it were a standardbred trainer " milkshaking" it would be front page news.  The thoroughbred industry has done a good job keeping somewhat of a lid on this.  I think this guy can get away with murder on Belmont Day and they'll hide it to preserve the integrity of the "Sport of Kings" and the Triple Crown.
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« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2012, 09:01:12 AM »

I doubt that her comments are motivated by jealousy or a need to keep someone out of an exclusive club. I think it has more to do with the integrity of the sport. Much the same as baseball fans feel about acknowledging the accomplishments of Barry Bonds and others from the steroid era.
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« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2012, 09:32:38 AM »

I doubt that her comments are motivated by jealousy or a need to keep someone out of an exclusive club. I think it has more to do with the integrity of the sport. Much the same as baseball fans feel about acknowledging the accomplishments of Barry Bonds and others from the steroid era.

Exactly...I'm not cheering against IWA because I'm jealous that he's a better horse than I'll ever own in my lifetime. I'm cheering against him because of the connections..pure and simple.
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journalstuff
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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2012, 09:40:48 AM »

Doug ain't a crap talker!! Rick Dutrow was a crap talker who talked crap about smarty jones and I kind of felt he didn't deserve to win the TC but DON deserves it more than he does
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2012, 11:59:24 AM »

If he, IHA wins, the shame is his Crown will be in the shadows of his connections . It would be great for every racing fan to cheer him on comming down the stretch !!!!
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Alpha Mare
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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2012, 12:14:34 PM »

I doubt that her comments are motivated by jealousy or a need to keep someone out of an exclusive club. I think it has more to do with the integrity of the sport. Much the same as baseball fans feel about acknowledging the accomplishments of Barry Bonds and others from the steroid era.

 thumbs up thumbs up..abso effing lutely!!!
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Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
Alpha Mare
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OYE VEY!!!!



« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2012, 12:17:02 PM »

If he, IHA wins, the shame is his Crown will be in the shadows of his connections . It would be great for every racing fan to cheer him on comming down the stretch !!!!

its' up to the racing gods reguardless.....is he a good enuff horse to overcome the 'unworthiness' of his connections....if he wins...his crown will always be asterisked tho....sad for the horse
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Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2012, 12:43:47 PM »

its' up to the racing gods reguardless.....is he a good enuff horse to overcome the 'unworthiness' of his connections....if he wins...his crown will always be asterisked tho....sad for the horse

Boy oh boy is there ever a concerted effort from the California True Believers to "pave over" concerns and comments about O'Needle and his shylock owner, Reddam!

They want a "California winner" so bad out there that is wouldn't matter if IHA was trained by Charles Manson, owned by Satan, and ridden by Sylvester "Fog" Caramouche. It's pretty effing comical. 
 
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hungry
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2012, 01:33:24 PM »

Good point hungry.  Could it also be that once you have a new TC winner that some of the spotlight will be taken off Big Red and put on the newest coolest thing?

I dont think its so much that as it 'cheapens' the accomplishment. If some horse named I'll have another can win the TC, how hard is it really? IHA is a nice horse dont get me wrong, but he probably isnt in the top 1,000 thoroughbreds who have ever raced (even if he WINS the TC)
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The Turf Monster
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« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2012, 02:04:43 PM »

When I see her speak out against doping in horse racing unrelated to a triple crown candidate, I'll believe that she's not being selfish with her criticism
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hungry
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2012, 03:12:40 PM »

When I see her speak out against doping in horse racing unrelated to a triple crown candidate, I'll believe that she's not being selfish with her criticism

Excellent point. beer
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beobob
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2012, 04:06:22 PM »

I started in racing because it was the only place to gamble in the 70s, I continue in racing today because I love the sport, especially the beauty, heart, and determination of the objects of our wagers.  While the idea of a TC winner having questionable connections is troubling for the image of racing, the horse is the object of my affection here.

IHA ran 2 perfect races against horses that (if I read the many of the posts here and the expert blogs correctly) he had no business beating. That is my definition of a champion. One win could be a fluke, the second becomes harder to explain away, if he wins a third time he is a worthy champion regardless of his connections - who I don't believe he chose.
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hungry
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2012, 04:13:06 PM »

I started in racing because it was the only place to gamble in the 70s, I continue in racing today because I love the sport, especially the beauty, heart, and determination of the objects of our wagers.  While the idea of a TC winner having questionable connections is troubling for the image of racing, the horse is the object of my affection here.

IHA ran 2 perfect races against horses that (if I read the many of the posts here and the expert blogs correctly) he had no business beating. That is my definition of a champion. One win could be a fluke, the second becomes harder to explain away, if he wins a third time he is a worthy champion regardless of his connections - who I don't believe he chose.

Here's a question, don't take this the wrong way...

Would there be ANY horse who was going for the TC that you would say "the horse is NOT the object of my affection here?"

In other words, could there ever be a situation where you wouldnt love the horse who was going for the TC?

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beobob
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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2012, 04:19:13 PM »

Here's a question, don't take this the wrong way...

Would there be ANY horse who was going for the TC that you would say "the horse is NOT the object of my affection here?"

In other words, could there ever be a situation where you wouldnt love the horse who was going for the TC?


Great question.  I don't think there is.  It is such an incredible accomplishment I can't help but root for them.
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« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2012, 05:14:59 PM »

HV...your taking shots at Doug....Yet you defend the hell out Dutrow.......WHO YOU CRAPPIN'?
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hungry
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« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2012, 05:22:02 PM »

Great question.  I don't think there is.  It is such an incredible accomplishment I can't help but root for them.

So, here's the next part of my question if you don't mind. If all the horses are 'equal' in your love for them, why not use the connections as your 'seperator' in who you root for? You can root for nice horses/nice humans or nice horses/ shady humans equally, but why should you?

I personally think that by rooting for shady connections we're really saying "its ok to be shady, we will root for you just as much because your horse cancels out your bad behavior"

If Bernie Madoff had a horse going for the TC, would you root for him?

I know that Madoff is a much worse human being than O'Neill and Reddam, but, where do we draw the line? Is it ok to be a semi-slimeball and we will root for you because we love the horse, or will we only root against the TOTAL slimeballs?

Where's the 'line' where you won't root for the horse because you cant stand the human connections?

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« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2012, 05:27:12 PM »

HV...your taking shots at Doug....Yet you defend the hell out Dutrow.......WHO YOU CRAPPIN'?

I'm a pretty versatile guy.  Grin

Dutrow isn't nearly as bad as many make him out to be...and Drug O'Needle didn't suddenly get religion on May 5th of this year. The truth is, both of these guys push the limits very hard, and neither's sheets are all that clean. That said, I'd be just fine with having either of them train for me, because they WIN...and that's the name of the game, folks.

It's just that, after all the shit I had to listen to from the Left Coast faithful when Dutrow was going for the TC with Big Brown, if you think I'm not going to turn the knife on O'Neill a little now to piss off the Californicators, you're crazy. Turnabout is fair play.
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jgp
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« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2012, 05:34:11 PM »

They are doing the sport no favors.  Who wants to handicap which horse is peaking on its drugs.  Its BS, who would use Big Brown to breed, you have no idea what type a horse he is on a level playing field.  Until they really start dropping the hammer on these cheaters, Ill only wager minimumally.  I think Europe is ahead of us on this.(among other things)
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« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2012, 05:47:21 PM »

Its BS, who would use Big Brown to breed.

* covered over 100 mares in his first season at stud, 70+ which were stakes mares or stakes-producing mares...

* ...at $65,000 a pop (you do the math)

* leading freshman sire at Fasig-Tipton July sale ($130,000 average); first yearlings sold for $310,000, $220,000, $220,000, $175,000...

* considered to have excellent airflow (breathing / lung capacity) and conformation (except for those damn ouchie feet)

(um...you sure you want to play this game, jgp?)
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pamwaggy
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« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2012, 07:39:55 PM »

Put me down with The Turf Monster and beobob. 
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jgp
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« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2012, 08:07:32 PM »

I shouldve said, I would have zero interest in using him.  35k for a juiced horse that raced 8 times.  Im hoping his progeny flops like him in the belmont.
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