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Author Topic: Please List your favorite Driver to watch Hand Drive a horse.  (Read 1956 times)
fuzzypants
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« on: April 27, 2012, 12:31:06 PM »

I love to watch a driver hand drive a horse to me is a real art.
The guy I have seen and of course Im very limited.
But Steve Wiseman out here could give a clinic on hand driven a horse and it is just a real thing of beauty to watch.
So maybe some of you could list your dirvers and maybe even a race that you felt it was a real art and skill.
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clubhouse
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2012, 12:44:40 PM »

Bill O'Donnell and Buddy Gilmour were the best but that was long time ago. I don't see it anymore.
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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2012, 12:45:17 PM »

MICHEL  LACHANCE
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clubhouse
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2012, 12:47:47 PM »

Mike LaChance is one of the greatest ever but he has a very heavy stick
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wilderness
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2012, 12:53:00 PM »

When John Moody was a kid, there was this mare that used to spit the bit after leading to the 3/4's in every race.
 At Northville in the dead of winter he catches the drive and pounds on the mares rump with his fist for the entire last quarter, to which she responded by winning.

 Is that what you meant by a hand drive Wink
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wilderness
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2012, 12:54:09 PM »

Chris Boring and Bill Gale were drivers with talented hands.
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2012, 01:32:44 PM »

Jim Morrill Jr has the softest hands today.....He is very easy on a horse and rarely ever really gets after one......
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SHOWTIME!!!
supernaut
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2012, 01:39:39 PM »

Joe O'Brien
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2012, 01:51:49 PM »

When John Moody was a kid, there was this mare that used to spit the bit after leading to the 3/4's in every race.
 At Northville in the dead of winter he catches the drive and pounds on the mares rump with his fist for the entire last quarter, to which she responded by winning.

 Is that what you meant by a hand drive Wink
laughing guy laughing guy Widerness you got me LoL.
What I mean by hand drives and I hope I can explain this as best i can from my perciption cause I just am not as aliquint as you.

When you see a driver that has the lines in such a way you can actually feel the relationship he is having with the horse thru the way he is holding the bit with very talented and care thr his hands on the horses mout and seems to encourage the horse with know whip and feels the horses gate and movemnts and thoughts of the animal giving him security and direction and confidence.. Just with the lines in his hand and the touch of the reins that connect to the bit in the horses mouth.
Some how it reminds me much of a dressage rider yet with know leg cues or no whip but by collecting the horse in such a way with his hands and the horses mouth using a very delicate pressure o the bit.and at different point in the race ?
Widerness am I explaining this correctly ? or am I the only one who see this with different drivers?


Now one driver I use on my horse is very agressive driver and sure seems to give my horse confidence but i if encouraged with the whip to much the horse just gets   his concentration broke as if to say what the hell more do you want from me. So I dont consider that  part of the race a hand drive. But he is still still learnig to understand this horses dos and donts.the horse may except a encouragement on the butt in the final sixteenth but to be howned  he is to honest a horse for that.
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hungry
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2012, 02:02:49 PM »

"ROCKING" RONNY PIERCE!   dude
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wilderness
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2012, 02:10:23 PM »

fuzzy,
         I was just yanking your chain and adding an odd insight to the thread.

 I knew exactly what you were referring to.

 With reinsmen leaning back in the bikes today it's difficult for anybody too imagine a reinsman having such a soft touch.

 In the very early days there were a few master reinsmen that never allowed their horses mouths to get sored-up and therefore the horses drove with the slightest of line-pressure. Edward Franklin Geers (Pop Geers) was a master at developing horses with very soft mouths. The writers said that Geers never changed his position in the bikes no matter where he was situated during the course of the race, and thus everything to the horse was conveyed through his hands, the lines and the bit.

 For another, Joe O'Brien may have had a nice-feel with the lines, however he was known for rocking in the bike.
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Regards Don
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2012, 02:16:29 PM »

FOR YEARS IN CHICAGO DAVE MAGEE WAS VERY SMOOTH AND EASY TO WATCH.
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wilderness
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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2012, 02:19:50 PM »

Quote
Now one driver I use on my horse is very agressive driver and sure seems to give my horse confidence but i if encouraged with the whip to much the horse just gets   his concentration broke as if to say what the hell more do you want from me.

 fuzzy,
          I've a deceased friend that had three full siblings.
You couldn't hit none of them with the whip coming down the stretch. They'd simply get pissed off and stop dead!

 My friend thought Tommy Harmer was god's gift to the universe.
 Before Harmer left Mich, and before a race, my friend and Harmer are arguing in the paddock.
 To which Harmer yells out:
 "I may as well not even take the whip (and with that Harmer throws his whip in the bushes and climbs on the bike)"

 I don't recall if the horse won that night, but Bill Gale got more out of my friends horses than Tommy could have mustered from three of himself.
 My friend couldn't use Chris Boring because most of the time Chris had a horse in against him.
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Regards Don
swoopdaddy
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« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2012, 02:39:37 PM »

this one is simple. the greatest set of hands i ever saw belong to winningest driver in history. most of you have never seen him but i had the privilege to work for him for four years. his name is Heinz Wewering. here's an article from the usta from 2010 crediting him with over 16,000 wins.     http://xwebapp.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/templates/article.aspx?articleid=38301&zoneid=1
  in Europe with the exception of france the lines must be kept in both hands necessitating the "hand drive." the man is a magican. 16,000 plus wins 2 time world driving champion, multiple time Europa champion, 29 time German champion. all with trotters and no hobbles allowed. nobody has numbers like him. nobody. he left me shaking my head a few times. simply the best.
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JLB
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« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2012, 02:42:10 PM »

I want to repeat Buddy Gilmour's name and add Clint Galbraith.
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2012, 02:44:34 PM »

widerness i could read and listen to your stories all night they fill me with such passion for harness racing and horse.
I figured you was yankn me but it sure had me laughn I lvoe your sense of humor.
When you say leaning back in the bike that certainly sent a light on under my mine for my observations.
I noticed when Steve Wisemen is driving he rarely leans back and you never see him hardly move in the seat at all.
Just for me I love watching that type of drive.
I wish we had tracks where the guys raced on hand driving like that and what you are explaining to me.

Its seems ashame all the money dressage horse bring and such an interest the world has on dresage why Standardbreds dont get back to the reinsmen as you explain and I see glimpse of with this breed.

The other thing I see so many times as the whip is used not as a tool but like some one going out and using chemistry and a vet to prerace the horse just a cheating way to go.Ends up costing the horse dearly.

Some dont seem to uncderstand that most horses dont cheat they are honest and want to race some like my horse who is brillently bred but has had confromation problems that have held him back and obvious will his entire life.
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swoopdaddy
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« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2012, 02:45:25 PM »

I want to repeat Buddy Gilmour's name and add Clint Galbraith.
for a north american driver my vote goes to George Sholty, who had a knack for keeping one alive without carving on them.
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2012, 02:51:43 PM »

What a joy this has been to talk to the Gentlemen and Gentlewomen of harness that truely see and can explain the Art that I have seen and hope to see our buisness go back to.
Please keep these stories coming I love reading. Gosh I wish we could some how  post these drives on here for all to see.
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2012, 02:57:38 PM »

I want to repeat Buddy Gilmour's name and add Clint Galbraith.

Keep adding these names these are the drivers that understand what the Art of harness racing is all about and hopefully it will bring other great drivers names to mine and encourage current drivers or young men and women with a passion and love for this Art.
Just wish I knew how to post a race on ever time I would see a hand drive to show the world its like watch a beautiful painting.
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Blue Chip55
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« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2012, 03:01:55 PM »

Herve and Henri Filion--- and Buddy Gilmour
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swoopdaddy
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« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2012, 03:12:17 PM »

heres the video of maybe the greatest hand drive ever for a million. head and head the length of the stretch. one hall of famer goes to his sword  while the other uses his just his hands. watch how many times mike laces his charge while john stays cool. a contrast in styles is never more evident. the 2001 meadowlands pace.  enjoy   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnSfioErH24
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wilderness
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« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2012, 03:27:29 PM »

swoop,
          I'm not a Lachance fan.
I've seem Mike nearly abuse many horses with the whip.

However, it this instance. . . .

 IMO the comparison of styles at the end of the race is both unfair and unreasonable.

 Mike's horse was on-the-bit and close to the lead the entire mile, what choice did he have, other than to use any means possible to get an extra effort out of a horse that had already given a full effort.
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Regards Don
jks best
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« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2012, 03:32:51 PM »

Dave Miller can hand drive a bad gaited trotter. He did so recently winning with Mattingly & Call The Warden, at the Meadowlands.
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2012, 03:39:20 PM »

swoop,
          I'm not a Lachance fan.
I've seem Mike nearly abuse many horses with the whip.

However, it this instance. . . .

 IMO the comparison of styles at the end of the race is both unfair and unreasonable.

 Mike's horse was on-the-bit and close to the lead the entire mile, what choice did he have, other than to use any means possible to get an extra effort out of a horse that had already given a full effort.
Yes but when you know your horse has raced his heart out and has raced his best then why lace him? To me that is punishing a horse for  the best he could do and I m sure the horse feels the same way hell they other horse wasnt going to go away so now you beat the horse casue the other competetor wasnt going away. i understand from the bettors point they want to see if the driver can get the last cup of blood out of him by beaten his ass but hell the horse had just given you the blood blank in the race.
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wilderness
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« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2012, 03:51:17 PM »

Yes but when you know your horse has raced his heart out and has raced his best then why lace him? To me that is punishing a horse for 

fuzzy,
          that race wasn't an overnight.
The purse was pretty substantial.
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Regards Don
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