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Author Topic: OT I LOVE THESE HIGH GAS PRICES  (Read 1673 times)
pigland1
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« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2012, 02:42:42 PM »

Illinois...Im not worried about beans or corn or precious metals. The price of oil is set by some "world" market which is 100% BS. Am I truly supposed to believe that in 2008, the price of oil went up to 142, then dropped without cause to 40? PUH-LEASE!!!!  Here's my point, "free markets"a rent free at all. As for your corn and beans, farmer's im sure love the propped up prices as they are on the short list of the biggest welfare queens the world has ever seen. Bio-diesel and ethanol are bound to be a part of that....although they magically set their price as to what gasoline is....Interesting, isnt it?
WELL SAID
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« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2012, 03:41:28 PM »

Mel never said speculation wasn't a big factor but if you can't get the
idea of China being a world consumer or that our cheap U.S. dollar
isn't two of the biggest factors in why crude oil is so high.  Will say
it again I agree speculation plays a big part but if you had bearish
fundmentals for crude oil then you wouldn't have the speculative
long.  So there has to be a driving factor and the 2 biggest reasons
are the two I mention.  That's all I'm saying.  World oil actually based
off Brent Crude which trades at a 17 dollar premium to Crude oil that
sits in Cushing Oklahoma.  As to why the price went from 142 to 40
without a cause isn't it the same as the Dow dropping from 13,000
to 6500 it's called liquidation why do you think trillions of dollar were
lost in the crash of 2009 people wanted out.  Again it's a money flow
market you create a bubble the bubble burst for different reason's
and it's one after another exiting out. 
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2012, 03:56:53 PM »

Mel never said speculation wasn't a big factor but if you can't get the
idea of China being a world consumer or that our cheap U.S. dollar
isn't two of the biggest factors in why crude oil is so high.  Will say
it again I agree speculation plays a big part but if you had bearish
fundmentals for crude oil then you wouldn't have the speculative
long.  So there has to be a driving factor and the 2 biggest reasons
are the two I mention.  That's all I'm saying.  World oil actually based
off Brent Crude which trades at a 17 dollar premium to Crude oil that
sits in Cushing Oklahoma.  As to why the price went from 142 to 40
without a cause isn't it the same as the Dow dropping from 13,000
to 6500 it's called liquidation why do you think trillions of dollar were
lost in the crash of 2009 people wanted out.  Again it's a money flow
market you create a bubble the bubble burst for different reason's
and it's one after another exiting out. 


Sounds to me, you've accepted the fact that very, VERY few get to dictate what prices will be and you're fine with that. While Im not fine with it at all, I am AWARE of it and have to live my life. China and India aside, if you REALLY believe that these "markets" are "free"... head shake
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« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2012, 03:59:06 PM »

Illinois, you make several good points, things that I have argued before.  The dollar is not the kind of factor you expressed though, since the dollar index is virtually unchanged since September 2007.

We didn't magically go from $140 to $40.  There were many factors, including liquidating positions as the world economy fell into recession, therefor causing less usage and the strengthening of the dollar when compared to the rest of the world.  I wonder how oil prices would be affected if Israel or "someone" were to take out Iran's nuclear sites.  Yes, there might be a spike up but does it then pull back significantly as a relief movement?

There is also the fact that we haven't built a new refinery in what, 20-30 years?  That reduces our capability of turning excess oil into gasoline.  So are we just sticking it to ourselves by not going forward with more refineries?  It's easy to see that this administration wants high prices - they've said so.  That's where my problem is in 2012 compared to 2008.
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Illinois sucks
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« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2012, 05:54:01 PM »

I don't accept the few that get to dictate prices I mention that the regulators
need to step in and tell these exchanges enough is enough with raising spec
limits so hedge and index funds can't control the direction of trade.  Bubbles
get created then bubbles burst not good for anyone.  Exchanges make huge
money in trading fees first thing on their list and integrity further down the list.
But if you have a friendly balance sheet in any commodity look out it's a
one way street currently soybeans have that, funds long 250,000 contracts
that's 1.25 bln bushels, the U.S. usually grows 3.2 bln bushels we have ending
stocks of 250mln bushels of beans. The funds have a position 5 times that
number it's not right.  Any negative impact on the market and these guys have
to liquidate it will go into a free fall.  Mel you could convert your fuel injected
car to natural gas it is at a 10 year low.  Problem with oil, Obama trying to shove
a 40k Chevy Volt at average American they can't afford you can purchase the
Ford Fussion with 33mpg or Focus with 40mpg at 20k or 16k.  Keep the difference
to pay for  fuel in the end you come ahead buying the car that runs on gas
even with 4 dollar gas prices.  Mel I see your point but just trying to show
there is always more to the story.  Dolfan in 2008 we weren't running a 4.2
trillion dollar deficit currently we are and the U.S. keeps printing money this
country we be in deep shit.  The day foreign countries stop buying our debt
will be the start of next recession which will be much worst than 2009.
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Royal Commode
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« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2012, 08:42:14 PM »

Hopefully happens before November the country cannot survive 4 more years of this dictator!!!
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Balls ona Heffer
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« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2012, 08:45:36 PM »

TOTAL ***hole 
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2012, 09:52:28 PM »

There is also the fact that we haven't built a new refinery in what, 20-30 years?  That reduces our capability of turning excess oil into gasoline.  So are we just sticking it to ourselves by not going forward with more refineries?  It's easy to see that this administration wants high prices - they've said so.  That's where my problem is in 2012 compared to 2008.

We also stick it to ourselves by electing Republican administrations for 12 years (Reagan/Bush) and then 8 years of Bush II, that essentially ignore what we've all know since Nixon and Carter, that he way top get out from under Middle East oil is to get out from under oil in general. Instead the R party pretends the problem does not exist and pursues policies that make the economy even more dependent on oil, all so their buddies at the oil companies can make even more $.
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« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2012, 09:58:21 PM »

Focus with 40mpg at 20k or 16k. 

Just bought a 2012 Focus for my daughter.  Currently getting 25 mpg mixed between highway & city.  Ford has no answers.

Buyer beware.


R Party

Absolutely agree.  The only ones to blame are Reagan, Bush & W.  Coulda sworn that Carter was elected after 1973, the 1st oil embargo & that there were 8 years of a D prez in the 90's but I am just an imbecile.

Uh, BOTH PARTIES ARE TO BLAME!!!!!!!!!!!!  doh
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2012, 10:08:33 PM »

Absolutely agree.  The only ones to blame are Reagan, Bush & W.  Coulda sworn that Carter was elected after 1973, the 1st oil embargo & that there were 8 years of a D prez in the 90's but I am just an imbecile.

Carter and Clinton did pursue alternate energy sources and conservation plans like better car gas mileage and simple insulation. The Republican administrations come along and all momentum ceases, as they refocus on trying to extract more oil by ever-more-costly technologies. Shale oil and tar sand oil cost much more to extract and process, but that's what Republicans pursue instead of plans to decrease oil use, because their base wants to keep on driving their gas guzzler 17 mpg Ford F-150 utterly oblivious to the fact that it is not still the fifties, oil wise. And their oil company buddies just say, "uh huh", all the way to the bank.
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Royal Commode
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« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2012, 10:11:27 PM »

I dont care what party it is you like we are talking about having a mentallity to run our country and do you belive this man has it based on his last 3 years of office? How are the kids all doing in public schools under this man? How is unemployment?? How is inflation?? How is the economy doing?? How are the things that matter to the everyday american?? All going in the right direction??
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Illinois sucks
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« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2012, 10:35:21 PM »

Face it folks there are no easy answers to any of the mess
that has been created.  Agree with Buffett rule, question it
passes but only brings in 47bln over ten years and Obama
wants to use that on various things.  OK fine.  We can tax and
tax will not help bring deficit down as our state governments
and federal government like to spend, spend, spend, instead
of make deep cuts.  With a 4 trillion deficit, still no fix in housing
markets, problems all over Europe, unemployment at high levels,
high prices in energy and food, to name a few.  You guys know
I don't have to tell anyone there are huge problems.  With a
election year where I would think Obama gets another 4 years
gridlock in Congress what gets done over next 4 years to make
a American feel good about the future and the future for my
8 and 6 year old.  
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2012, 10:38:55 PM »

You guys know I don't have to tell anyone there are huge problems.  With a election year where I would think Obama gets another 4 years
gridlock in Congress what gets done over next 4 years to make a American feel good about the future and the future for my 8 and 6 year old.  

The willingness of the R party to create that deadlock and simply say no to everything for 4 years while we had these problems is an utter disgrace to America, and has badly damaged the country. They even say no to ideas that have been Republican ideas for decades.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2012, 11:30:50 PM »

When we overspend on our credit cards at home & then my wife or daughter say "can I get", I beat them to the punch & say "no".  Works for me.

Just say "NO"!
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Jeepers
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« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2012, 02:31:27 AM »

Illinois, you make several good points, things that I have argued before.  The dollar is not the kind of factor you expressed though, since the dollar index is virtually unchanged since September 2007.

We didn't magically go from $140 to $40.  There were many factors, including liquidating positions as the world economy fell into recession, therefor causing less usage and the strengthening of the dollar when compared to the rest of the world.  I wonder how oil prices would be affected if Israel or "someone" were to take out Iran's nuclear sites.  Yes, there might be a spike up but does it then pull back significantly as a relief movement?

There is also the fact that we haven't built a new refinery in what, 20-30 years?  That reduces our capability of turning excess oil into gasoline.  So are we just sticking it to ourselves by not going forward with more refineries?  It's easy to see that this administration wants high prices - they've said so.  That's where my problem is in 2012 compared to 2008.


What are the barriers, or disincentives, to build more refineries? Do they rest with the oil companies and their shareholders? Has the present administration put up barriers to construction of new refineries? Has the administration acted to increase oil prices, as you suggest?
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pigland1
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« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2012, 06:24:47 AM »

When we overspend on our credit cards at home & then my wife or daughter say "can I get", I beat them to the punch & say "no".  Works for me.

Just say "NO"!
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2012, 07:51:11 AM »

Having read this entire page's to and fro, you are all missing THE most important thing that causes or promotes policy in America.....MONEY. No matter the letter behind the name, it doesnt matter...the D team is just as guilty as the r team for making sure business gets EVERY, and I do mean EVERY advantage they can get. The Buffett rule is just a bone to make the peasants think something is being done. Problem is, no one is, and or WILL, stand up and say, everyone has to pay. It's not ALL rich, (although, they definitely need to pay more). There's ZERO chance that anyone is going to do the things necessary to turn the tables around, its just not going to happen. For those who think Obama is SOOOOOOO bad, you have a serious short term memory problem, but thats OK, because when things were going so strongly in the mid to late 90's Clinton rode the wave of internet frenzy by taking away safe guards. Makes no difference people, MONEY is where it all is. The ONLY time anything changes is when the population gets to the point where most say "enough is enough"...and how is that ever going to happen now a days with a 50-50 split on most everything? We definitely need a third party or 5 parties for that matter....who will actually get voted in because of their desire to do whats best for the MOST amount of people, and not the least. (Again, never going to happen)
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2012, 08:41:55 AM »

When we overspend on our credit cards at home & then my wife or daughter say "can I get", I beat them to the punch & say "no".  Works for me.

Just say "NO"!

You should have been raising this alarm when Bush started creating this situation where the government is on a permanent path of deficit spending. You want to start two wars? PAY for them. You want to drastically reduce your income (big tax cut)? Cut the size of government to boot.  Want to buy votes with a big Medicare drug benefit? PAY for it. Want to drastically increase the size of the Federal gov. including whole new departments? PAY for them. But he did none of these things, Cheney says publicly that deficits don't matter, and all you righties didn't make a peep.

So all of sudden the conservative hero Bush leaves office having run up $5 trillion in national debt and with an additional built in $1 trillion deficit for 2009 and beyond, and all the righties start howling that they expect the Democrat president, smack in the middle of a giant Republican created recession, to be able to solve the deficit problem entirely by cutting government expenditures without raising any new revenues. How crazy can you get?

First Bush runs up that national credit card to the stratosphere and puts the family on an unsustainable credit card fueled life style, then his party and co-conspirators in creating the problem refuses to do anything about raising revenue to pay for the deficit lifestyle they created. It's like the R party has decided to intentionally drive the country into the ground.

 screwy man  screwy 
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2012, 08:53:34 AM »

Having read this entire page's to and fro, you are all missing THE most important thing that causes or promotes policy in America.....MONEY. No matter the letter behind the name, it doesnt matter...the D team is just as guilty as the r team for making sure business gets EVERY, and I do mean EVERY advantage they can get. The Buffett rule is just a bone to make the peasants think something is being done. Problem is, no one is, and or WILL, stand up and say, everyone has to pay.

I think both parties realized that in the late 90's when Clinton and the Congress than passed the tax increases and reduced govt spending to the point where we were actually expected to run a surplus. As recently as then even the Republicans realized the necessity of doing that, and one of the chief R players of the time, Gingrich, still runs around today bragging about that feat.

But then along came the ultra-extreme right, Bush and the R Congress that came with him, and convinced a majority of voters, twice, that voodoo economics that would make his own dad cringe was the way to go. So here we are stuck with the bloated govt. and reduced  revenues that Bush left us, along with his monster recession where it's hard to consider either reducing govt. spending or raising taxes that would make the recession worse.

You're right EVERYONE should pay, but the R's won't agree to even a small tax increase on anyone at all, not even on those least affected by the recession.
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« Reply #69 on: April 12, 2012, 09:10:05 AM »

How about spending less?  How about converting autos and trucks to natural gas?  How about getting the socialists out of the white house?




I think both parties realized that in the late 90's when Clinton and the Congress than passed the tax increases and reduced govt spending to the point w


here we were actually expected to run a surplus. As recently as then even the Republicans realized the necessity of doing that, and one of the chief R players of the time, Gingrich, still runs around today bragging about that feat.

But then along came the ultra-extreme right, Bush and the R Congress that came with him, and convinced a majority of voters, twice, that voodoo economics that would make his own dad cringe was the way to go. So here we are stuck with the bloated govt. and reduced  revenues that Bush left us, along with his monster recession where it's hard to consider either reducing govt. spending or raising taxes that would make the recession worse.

You're right EVERYONE should pay, but the R's won't agree to even a small tax increase on anyone at all, not even on those least affected by the recession.
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Badlands Bad Boy
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« Reply #70 on: April 12, 2012, 09:27:04 AM »

The problems facing this country have been compounded over many eras by the liars, cheats and thieves who were elected to public office and those who monetarily supported (for considerations after) their election. This goes from top to bottom – from the smallest town to Capitol Hill. Nothing will change. The current problems will only spawn other, larger problems.

This thread is/was about gas prices. Then, corn and beans were brought in. Ok, let’s talk corn. A bushel of corn as a commodity, started to rise when the brilliant idea of ‘ethanol as automotive fuel’ was proposed. A small amount of research will show that something is simple as CORN is not above corruption by our elected officials and corporate thieves.

Wall Street and the regulation by the SEC is a joke. Price speculation is a joke. The true reason for the fluctuation in gasoline is that the thieves have their hand in your pocket – and if possible, in each other’s pockets, as well.

The asinine reasons for the fluctuation (read: rise) in gasoline prices put out in the media, on a daily basis, staggers the imagination. It is nothing short of senseless, mind numbing bullshit
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coldpunch
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« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2012, 09:28:29 AM »

i pay $3.65 here in south jersey for regular--thats still less than a gallon of milk

whats all this talk about high prices?
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Badlands Bad Boy
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« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2012, 09:31:08 AM »

Drive north about 200 miles and you will be paying over $4.00 a gallon.

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coldpunch
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« Reply #73 on: April 12, 2012, 09:32:56 AM »

thanks--i will stay where i am at
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Badlands Bad Boy
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« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2012, 09:34:33 AM »

Keeps going up here, I may join you!
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