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Author Topic: WAKE UP BALMORAL YOU'RE LOSING HANDLE !!!!  (Read 2010 times)
Dan Nance
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« on: November 12, 2005, 02:21:24 PM »

HEY JOHNSON'S

       We can't bet this in Vegas. WHY NOT Huh?
       

       
No .50 bets being taken in Vegas. Help us out here.
[/b]
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John Doe
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2005, 02:32:14 PM »

Dan:

You might not want to bet these anyway because look at that poor guy who hit the .10 cent superfeacta last night at Maywood. He probably got bent over and fuc##ed real good by the Johnston's when they did not pay him. If they stiffed the guy, its bullshit, if you take a bet, then you should pay the bet if it wins. The way it is getting around here anymore, if have a winning ticket you might not get paid if the Johnston's don't like you.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)
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                       GREG ANTHONY
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                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2005, 02:37:02 PM »

Dan:

You might not want to bet these anyway because look at that poor guy who hit the .10 cent superfeacta last night at Maywood. He probably got bent over and fuc##ed real good by the Johnston's when they did not pay him. If they stiffed the guy, its bullshit, if you take a bet, then you should pay the bet if it wins. The way it is getting around here anymore, if have a winning ticket you might not get paid if the Johnston's don't like you.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)

Very curious to hear the final story on that one...did they actually issue a dime ticket -- or was it just a tote error?  I mean it ended up paying $16k for all four -- so clearly there wasn't one dime winner to begin with.

Best,
EW
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2005, 02:39:54 PM »

HEY JOHNSON'S

       We can't bet this in Vegas. WHY NOT Huh?
       

       
No .50 bets being taken in Vegas. Help us out here.
[/b]

Dan,

I agree that they should take the bet, but you can't be a 100% sure that they are losing handle in Vegas.  You may not choose to play the $1 combinations, but remember, it only takes half as many of those to get the same handle.

The idea of a 50 cent P3 is ludicrous.  The pools are already miniscule.  Am I the only one that would rather have the minimums be:

EX $3
TRI $2
SUP $1
P3 $2
P4 $2
P6 $1

The only minimum that could be constantly too high in America is the P6 -- the $2 is pretty steep.

I just think there's too much junk money with these dime and fifty cent amounts, that eventually it will kill the pools, and the big handlers with it...

Best,
EW
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2005, 02:49:51 PM »

Dan,

I agree that they should take the bet, but you can't be a 100% sure that they are losing handle in Vegas.  You may not choose to play the $1 combinations, but remember, it only takes half as many of those to get the same handle.

The idea of a 50 cent P3 is ludicrous.  The pools are already miniscule.  Am I the only one that would rather have the minimums be:

EX $3
TRI $2
SUP $1
P3 $2
P4 $2
P6 $1

The only minimum that could be constantly too high in America is the P6 -- the $2 is pretty steep.

I just think there's too much junk money with these dime and fifty cent amounts, that eventually it will kill the pools, and the big handlers with it...

Best,
EW

Edward, I agree. The .50 pick 3 is stupid. The .50 pick 4 is ok but these bets are ruining the payoffs. I just feel that if they offer the .50 bets in Chicago then Vegas should get with the program and take the bets. Whoever is blocking the bet should fix it. 
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2005, 03:17:18 PM »

Ok, here's the deal gentleman. I just tried to make a .50 pick 4 at the Coast Casino to see if they were taking the bet. The machine rejected the bet.

     The racebook supervisor called the Nevada Disseminator to find out why they can't take the .50 bets. They told her that the" Nevada Gaming Board " has not approved the .50 cent bet.

      The .50 bet has been around for a long time so I don't know why the " Gaming Board " is sitting on their ass on this bet. They approved the .10 cent super why not the .50 bets? This is what I mean about" big shots " sitting around with their finger up their ass locking out bettors in Vegas of bets that the tracks are offering.

       If the " Johnson's " are reading this forum like Tom Wendt said they are then I would like to tell them to call the " Nevada Gaming Board " and get on their ass to start taking what the tracks are offering the gamblers. 
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2005, 03:47:36 PM »

Ok, here's the deal gentleman. I just tried to make a .50 pick 4 at the Coast Casino to see if they were taking the bet. The machine rejected the bet.

     The racebook supervisor called the Nevada Disseminator to find out why they can't take the .50 bets. They told her that the" Nevada Gaming Board " has not approved the .50 cent bet.

      The .50 bet has been around for a long time so I don't know why the " Gaming Board " is sitting on their ass on this bet. They approved the .10 cent super why not the .50 bets? This is what I mean about" big shots " sitting around with their finger up their ass locking out bettors in Vegas of bets that the tracks are offering.

       If the " Johnson's " are reading this forum like Tom Wendt said they are then I would like to tell them to call the " Nevada Gaming Board " and get on their ass to start taking what the tracks are offering the gamblers. 


Maybe the "uppers" at the NGB think that the 50 cent bet will cost them handle in the long run so they are dragging their feet?

Thanks for the update, Dan...

Best,
EW
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Chitown Stan
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2005, 03:59:45 PM »

Is Tom Wendt reading this board?
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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2005, 04:15:20 PM »

I don't see how some of you think that lowering the minimum hurts the payout.  What is the logic in this.  I say make the minimum bet a dime on everything and forget about it.  You can bet $1 to win on horses in California, and you don't see them struggling. If you don't hit the bet, you shouldn't get paid.  I also don't see how this hurts a big bettor.  He can back up his dollar plays with dime plays.  If he had 3/4 for a $1 and didn't have 4/4 for a dime its his own stupid fault.  If someone wants to bet 10 cents to win on a horse, who cares? Let them!  If they want to waste their whole night away betting $1.20 I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to, they'll spend money on food and beverages anyway.  These people aren't the ones building the pool anyway, and if it makes them happy then maybe they'll become fans of the sport and start betting more. The only bets where a minimum should be enforced are bets like the Pick 6, where a carryover is really necessary to build the pool.  Let people bet what they want to bet, it allows everyone to play at a level that is comfortable for them and creates a more enjoyable experience
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2005, 04:29:01 PM »

Dan:

I just came up with a good idea...I think. Since the harness market is so bad in Chicago and they are lowering the denomination of bets down to a dime and fifty-cents, do you think the Johnston's would let us open a Pawn Shop on the ground floor at Maywood and Balmoral? We could loan cash on stolen jog-carts, harnesses, jewelry, hub caps stolen from the parking lot and all kinds of shit. This would be a great help to increase the revenue and handle. What do you think? Hell, we could take microwave ovens from the grooms or their television sets from the tack rooms. I mean it would a good deal for both sides. We would be promoting larger pools for the tracks and horsemen, and making some quick cash ourselves. What do you think Dan, you in or out? I think we could open as The Bald Snake Pawn Brokers.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2005, 04:30:46 PM by JDakuras » Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
Dan Nance
Guest

« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2005, 04:53:55 PM »

Dan:

I just came up with a good idea...I think. Since the harness market is so bad in Chicago and they are lowering the denomination of bets down to a dime and fifty-cents, do you think the Johnston's would let us open a Pawn Shop on the ground floor at Maywood and Balmoral? We could loan cash on stolen jog-carts, harnesses, jewelry, hub caps stolen from the parking lot and all kinds of shit. This would be a great help to increase the revenue and handle. What do you think? Hell, we could take microwave ovens from the grooms or their television sets from the tack rooms. I mean it would a good deal for both sides. We would be promoting larger pools for the tracks and horsemen, and making some quick cash ourselves. What do you think Dan, you in or out? I think we could open as The Bald Snake Pawn Brokers.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel For Life)

That's the best idea I've heard in a long time. I'm in. I think Les Einhaus will be our first customer with all that equipment he lifted from " King Carl ". Then the next in line would be Jim Kennedy the Hay & Straw man with all the harness's he lifted off the harness hooks from all the trainers that owed him thousands. After he pawned all his crap then the next person who would step up would be the other feedman Morris who stole all the jogcarts and then took them to his farm from all the trainers who owed him.

    I think we may even have to loan money on my own equipment that Tony Pernice and Gary O'Brien sold for me to other horseman and then keeped my money. They might even show up with all the equipment I gave to them when I retired.

     Yeah Joe, business will be damn good. Look into getting the business license.   
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2005, 05:29:42 PM »

I don't see how some of you think that lowering the minimum hurts the payout.  What is the logic in this.  I say make the minimum bet a dime on everything and forget about it.  You can bet $1 to win on horses in California, and you don't see them struggling. If you don't hit the bet, you shouldn't get paid.  I also don't see how this hurts a big bettor.  He can back up his dollar plays with dime plays.  If he had 3/4 for a $1 and didn't have 4/4 for a dime its his own stupid fault.  If someone wants to bet 10 cents to win on a horse, who cares? Let them!  If they want to waste their whole night away betting $1.20 I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to, they'll spend money on food and beverages anyway.  These people aren't the ones building the pool anyway, and if it makes them happy then maybe they'll become fans of the sport and start betting more. The only bets where a minimum should be enforced are bets like the Pick 6, where a carryover is really necessary to build the pool.  Let people bet what they want to bet, it allows everyone to play at a level that is comfortable for them and creates a more enjoyable experience

It's all economics here, and I'm not sure you've grasped it.

A couple key points to start off:
1. A small percentage of the bettors account for quite a bit of the handle.
2. Most (but not all) of these bettors are sharp.
3. Sharp bettors want big payoffs to actually give them a chance to win.
4. You need to work towards the "sharp" bettors who build your pools, and not Lester A. Public from NE Indiana.
5. If you do not work towards the "sharpies" you will lose them to other forms of gambling where they can actually make a profit -- ie: casino, sports, foreign racing, etc.

OKAY....

$$ are obviously the first thing to handle.  The idea to generating max handle for bigger bettors I covered above -- GIVE THEM A SHOT AT GOOD PAYOUTS.  For smaller bettors -- the key is this: make the minimums big enough to get the most out of them, but not so much that you scare them away.  BOTTOM LINE: there's no way they bet TWENTY times as many combinations if you give them the chance at the dime metric.  Guaranteed.  There's too many two dollar tickets floating around right now for me to believe that you wouldn't lose handle this way.

An attitude like this is also expressed in those people that think EVERY race should have WPS, Ex, Tri, Super, DD, P3, P4, etc...just because "after all it's just offering the most options and collecting, right?"  WRONG.  You need to build pools!!

This is all my opinion, but I think you'd find most of it to be true if you observe, ask bettors good questions, and study some basic economics.  Unfortunately, many in racetrack management don't seem to study the game in which they work -- and they proceed to make poor decisions.

Best,
EW
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fineline
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« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2005, 05:58:12 PM »

They should pay him the value of the 10 cent ticket and roll the rest over and all other 10 cent tickets should be refunded.
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2005, 05:59:12 PM »

They should pay him the value of the 10 cent ticket and roll the rest over and all other 10 cent tickets should be refunded.

Is it confirmed that someone "actually" had it for a dime?  I mean, that $400k payoff had to be incorrect, because there were TWO $1 winners.

Best,
EW
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BIG FAN
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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2005, 06:02:29 PM »

Very confusing.It does not look good. Huh
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Fillmore Bear
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« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2005, 02:30:28 AM »

The $.50 pick 3 was not available at Balmoral tonight.$1 bets only.
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