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Author Topic: WOODBINE SNAFU ?  (Read 1020 times)
BEAVER VAN PELT
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« on: March 16, 2012, 02:39:06 AM »

Thursday nite at Woodbine Race 10, #2 Solar Kash w/ L. Ouellette finished 2nd. Post-race, the inquiry sign flashed and it was determined that the trotter had broken equipment prior to the start. Subsequently, the stewards declared Solar Kash a non-starter and gave pari-mutuel refunds on all wagers. Thus, anyone who had the horse to place or show, or utilized in winning Exacta or Trifecta wagers, lost their winning ticket. I'm assuming the owner was also denied 25% of the purse. Chart to follow >>>

9-Jcs Kadabra      7.20   4.90   3.60    
5-Its On My Tab            7.40   4.60      
1-Alltheway Abra                    4.70      

$2 EXACTOR (9-5) paid 62.40, pool 12997
$2 TRIACTOR (9-5-1) paid 405.70, pool 12157
$1 PICK 3 (4-4-9) paid 11.45, pool 5626

REFUND #2 BROKEN EQUIPMENT BEFORE THE START

1 MILE, TROT, PURSE $11,000.
CLAIMING $15,000. ALLOWANCES FOR AGE & SEX.
                                                                                                    
Horse                       HV  PP      1/8     1/4     1/2     3/4     7/8      Finish     Time    1/4  Dist Driver           Odds   Trainer
9   Jcs Kadabra                9       1/1H    1/1T    3/2     3@/3    2/2      1/1        1:55.1  29   5357 A Macdonald      2.60   C Johnson
2   Solar Kash                 BE2     4/5     4/6H    2@/NK   1/1H    1/2      2BE/1      1:55.2  29.4   -5 L Ouellette          RE B Baillargeon
5   Its On My Tab            5       3/1T    2/1T    4/3H    4@@/4Q  4/3Q     3/3        1:55.4  29.2   12 Ja Macdonald    10.35   H Holland
1   Alltheway Abra             1       7/10    7/13Q   7@/10T  6@@/6Q  6/5      4/4Q       1:56    29.1   28 Ja Brewer       11.00   S Charlton
6   Canaco Runner               6       2/1H    3/3H    1/NK    2@/1H   3/2H     5/4H       1:56    30.1    7 S Filion         1.40*  R Moreau
3   Crusader Dream              3       5/7     5/8H    5/5T    5/5Q    5/4H     6/5        1:56.1  29.3   28 B Davis Jr      31.15   J Barrington
8   Lou Lous Princess          8       9/11    9/16T   9@/15   8@/9H   8/7H     7/6T       1:56.3  29.1   35 M Whelan        10.25   W Whelan
7   Dabrina                     7       8/10H   8/15Q   8@/12T  7@@/7H  7/7      8/7        1:56.3  29.3   24 K Oliver         9.50   W Yeung
4   P L Cooper                 4       6/8T    6/11Q   6/8Q    X9X/10  9/15     9/16T      1:58.3  31    -11 C Christoforou   6.75   J Brooks

Time: 27.2, 57.0, 1:25.3, 1:55.1 (Temperature: 11, Condition: FT, Variant: 0)

1st  Jcs Kadabra         (b,m,7 - Kadabra-J Cs Valley-Valleymeister)
                         Owner: Debbie Element,Laval,QC
2nd  Solar Kash          (b,g,7 - El Paso Kash-Sonora Kash-Uptown)
                         Owner: Leonard W Gamble,Etobicoke-Kevin J Kobus,Toronto-J Peter Howarth,Brampton-Daniel J Smith,Richmond Hill,ON
3rd  Its On My Tab       (b,g,6 - Cantab Hall-Mackadamian-Mack Lobell)
                         Owner: Kostas G Diakoloukas,Brampton,ON

 horse shoe clocker

courtesy: DZ
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 02:54:02 AM by BEAVER VAN PELT » Report to moderator   Logged

"NOBODY HAS W-2G NUMBERS LIKE ME... THUS, AN EXCLUSIVE INVITATION FROM TVG/BIG M TO COMPETE IN THE 2009/2010/2011 NHHC TOURNAMENT"; ALSO, ASK ME ABOUT REBATE$...
JuiceJunkies
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2012, 04:21:18 AM »

Odd.
What was his off price?

Were they protecting win bettors?
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VicD
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2012, 06:08:09 AM »

First time in 30 years of betting that I had the winning ticket, I had the triple for $5, and lost not due to a DQ but a refund..
Looked like a bullshit call. If the starter saw broken equipment prior to "GO", why not a recall?
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Sea Biscuit
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2012, 06:14:03 AM »

Thursday nite at Woodbine Race 10, #2 Solar Kash w/ L. Ouellette finished 2nd. Post-race, the inquiry sign flashed and it was determined that the trotter had broken equipment prior to the start. Subsequently, the stewards declared Solar Kash a non-starter and gave pari-mutuel refunds on all wagers. Thus, anyone who had the horse to place or show, or utilized in winning Exacta or Trifecta wagers, lost their winning ticket. I'm assuming the owner was also denied 25% of the purse. Chart to follow >>>

9-Jcs Kadabra      7.20   4.90   3.60    
5-Its On My Tab            7.40   4.60      
1-Alltheway Abra                    4.70      

$2 EXACTOR (9-5) paid 62.40, pool 12997
$2 TRIACTOR (9-5-1) paid 405.70, pool 12157
$1 PICK 3 (4-4-9) paid 11.45, pool 5626

REFUND #2 BROKEN EQUIPMENT BEFORE THE START

1 MILE, TROT, PURSE $11,000.
CLAIMING $15,000. ALLOWANCES FOR AGE & SEX.
                                                                                                    
Horse                       HV  PP      1/8     1/4     1/2     3/4     7/8      Finish     Time    1/4  Dist Driver           Odds   Trainer
9   Jcs Kadabra                9       1/1H    1/1T    3/2     3@/3    2/2      1/1        1:55.1  29   5357 A Macdonald      2.60   C Johnson
2   Solar Kash                 BE2     4/5     4/6H    2@/NK   1/1H    1/2      2BE/1      1:55.2  29.4   -5 L Ouellette          RE B Baillargeon
5   Its On My Tab            5       3/1T    2/1T    4/3H    4@@/4Q  4/3Q     3/3        1:55.4  29.2   12 Ja Macdonald    10.35   H Holland
1   Alltheway Abra             1       7/10    7/13Q   7@/10T  6@@/6Q  6/5      4/4Q       1:56    29.1   28 Ja Brewer       11.00   S Charlton
6   Canaco Runner               6       2/1H    3/3H    1/NK    2@/1H   3/2H     5/4H       1:56    30.1    7 S Filion         1.40*  R Moreau
3   Crusader Dream              3       5/7     5/8H    5/5T    5/5Q    5/4H     6/5        1:56.1  29.3   28 B Davis Jr      31.15   J Barrington
8   Lou Lous Princess          8       9/11    9/16T   9@/15   8@/9H   8/7H     7/6T       1:56.3  29.1   35 M Whelan        10.25   W Whelan
7   Dabrina                     7       8/10H   8/15Q   8@/12T  7@@/7H  7/7      8/7        1:56.3  29.3   24 K Oliver         9.50   W Yeung
4   P L Cooper                 4       6/8T    6/11Q   6/8Q    X9X/10  9/15     9/16T      1:58.3  31    -11 C Christoforou   6.75   J Brooks

Time: 27.2, 57.0, 1:25.3, 1:55.1 (Temperature: 11, Condition: FT, Variant: 0)

1st  Jcs Kadabra         (b,m,7 - Kadabra-J Cs Valley-Valleymeister)
                         Owner: Debbie Element,Laval,QC
2nd  Solar Kash          (b,g,7 - El Paso Kash-Sonora Kash-Uptown)
                         Owner: Leonard W Gamble,Etobicoke-Kevin J Kobus,Toronto-J Peter Howarth,Brampton-Daniel J Smith,Richmond Hill,ON
3rd  Its On My Tab       (b,g,6 - Cantab Hall-Mackadamian-Mack Lobell)
                         Owner: Kostas G Diakoloukas,Brampton,ON

 horse shoe clocker

courtesy: DZ

Solar Kash went off at 2-1.

Once a horse is declared a non starter you get refunds on all tickets involving this horse except the P-3 and P-4 tickets in which case you get the post time favorite which was Canaco Runner at $1.40-1.
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Sea Biscuit
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2012, 06:20:34 AM »

I didn't see the broken equipment and certainly it didn't seem to affect or hamper the horse in any way.

In my opinion he should have been left up.
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ontarioslasher
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2012, 06:41:02 AM »

the owner still gets the purse money he is a non starter for wagering purposes
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BEAVER VAN PELT
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2012, 11:32:30 AM »

Solar Kash went off at 2-1.

Once a horse is declared a non starter you get refunds on all tickets involving this horse except the P-3 and P-4 tickets in which case you get the post time favorite which was Canaco Runner at $1.40-1.
THX FOR KICKING IN ADDL INFO BISCUIT; I KNEW SOMEBODY WOULD BE ASKING ABOUT THE OFF-ODDS, WHICH I WASNT SURE OF

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Sea Biscuit
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2012, 12:11:01 PM »

THX FOR KICKING IN ADDL INFO BISCUIT; I KNEW SOMEBODY WOULD BE ASKING ABOUT THE OFF-ODDS, WHICH I WASNT SURE OF

 horse shoe

No problem BVP.

I wonder what the judges would have done had Solar Kash won the race.
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2012, 12:16:37 PM »

I assume that is the rule.....I doubt these guys are flying by the seat of their pants......Its a good rule......But if you had the exotics you probably dont agree......Every horse is entitled to a fair start.....If something happens before the start and there isnt a recall the horse is a non starter.....I would assume that he would still be a non starter of he won......But that is a great question
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SHOWTIME!!!
hungry
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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2012, 01:29:11 PM »

This happened at the Meadows on Dec 20, 2010 in race 6.

A horse driven by Dave Palone 'stepped out of his hopple" and was declared a non starter after he ended up setting the pace and finishing 4th at 6-5.

(disclaimer: i made a decent hit on the race, got most of my profit taken away that day and have bet very few Meadows races since)

I was betting Meadows regularly, and i felt totally violated when that happened, so i just stopped betting their track for the most part.

In my own personal opinion, i believe that this needs to be a 'judgment' call and not an automatic refund. Stewards make judgment calls all the time.....if a horse breaks equipment, that's too bad for those bettors, its just bad luck. In thoroughbred racing, they don't refund your money if another horse bumps into you and to my knowledge, horses in the runners don't get refunded if a jock 'loses his irons' or the saddle slips.

Think about that for a second. How many times in the runners to you see the 'saddle slip' and theres no refund....they just say "tough luck, try better next time"

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Sea Biscuit
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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2012, 10:07:15 PM »

This happened at the Meadows on Dec 20, 2010 in race 6.

A horse driven by Dave Palone 'stepped out of his hopple" and was declared a non starter after he ended up setting the pace and finishing 4th at 6-5.

(disclaimer: i made a decent hit on the race, got most of my profit taken away that day and have bet very few Meadows races since)

I was betting Meadows regularly, and i felt totally violated when that happened, so i just stopped betting their track for the most part.

In my own personal opinion, i believe that this needs to be a 'judgment' call and not an automatic refund. Stewards make judgment calls all the time.....if a horse breaks equipment, that's too bad for those bettors, its just bad luck. In thoroughbred racing, they don't refund your money if another horse bumps into you and to my knowledge, horses in the runners don't get refunded if a jock 'loses his irons' or the saddle slips.

Think about that for a second. How many times in the runners to you see the 'saddle slip' and theres no refund....they just say "tough luck, try better next time"



You said the horse finished 4th.

You felt violated because he was taken down and you had to tear up a super ticket or what?
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JuiceJunkies
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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2012, 11:16:28 PM »

Pal, that scenario sounds familiar.   And I understand.

You make a wager tossing the chalk, and make a hit correctly.   And then they toss the chalk and make your odds plummet in all pools.

Hurts.
This happened at the Meadows on Dec 20, 2010 in race 6.

A horse driven by Dave Palone 'stepped out of his hopple" and was declared a non starter after he ended up setting the pace and finishing 4th at 6-5.

(disclaimer: i made a decent hit on the race, got most of my profit taken away that day and have bet very few Meadows races since)

I was betting Meadows regularly, and i felt totally violated when that happened, so i just stopped betting their track for the most part.

In my own personal opinion, i believe that this needs to be a 'judgment' call and not an automatic refund. Stewards make judgment calls all the time.....if a horse breaks equipment, that's too bad for those bettors, its just bad luck. In thoroughbred racing, they don't refund your money if another horse bumps into you and to my knowledge, horses in the runners don't get refunded if a jock 'loses his irons' or the saddle slips.

Think about that for a second. How many times in the runners to you see the 'saddle slip' and theres no refund....they just say "tough luck, try better next time"


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Hawk
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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2012, 08:46:41 AM »

No problem BVP.

I wonder what the judges would have done had Solar Kash won the race.

If he won he would have stayed up.
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hungry
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« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2012, 11:52:25 AM »

Pal, that scenario sounds familiar.   And I understand.

You make a wager tossing the chalk, and make a hit correctly.   And then they toss the chalk and make your odds plummet in all pools.

Hurts.

Exactamundo. That's exactly what happened.
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JuiceJunkies
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2012, 07:08:23 AM »

so they were protecting wagers for win or top spots in exotics.

If he won he would have stayed up.
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coldpunch
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2012, 05:30:34 PM »

Bullshit call to declare a refund

the judges do have some discretion and common sense they can utilize--and they dont have to literally be binded by the exact letter of the rule

WEG is usually known for common sense--but in this case--i think they blew it
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hungry
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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2012, 09:12:40 PM »

Bullshit call to declare a refund

the judges do have some discretion and common sense they can utilize--and they dont have to literally be binded by the exact letter of the rule

WEG is usually known for common sense--but in this case--i think they blew it

Slots tracks seem to do things 'differently' than non slots tracks. Since WEG doesnt really care about horse racing or their players, they'll just do what appears to be the 'right thing', they dont want to rock any boats, they want to look like the 'nice guy'. They even have some rule where if you break before the start, sometimes, they refund the monies.

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fuzzypants
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2012, 09:26:22 PM »

Ive never seen this befor and the horse almost won. That is so strange.
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Hawk
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« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2012, 07:07:01 AM »

so they were protecting wagers for win or top spots in exotics.



yep...so if you bet him to win or on top of the exotics you had a FREE shot! screwy
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