Hawthorne Race 6

[cliffyy]

miller got alot of say....Jim Miller is Assistant General Manager  ,,thats second in charge at the track.

[pamwaggy]

Hey, and Jim Miller replied to your email.  That was all he could do. Like Dan said, he isn't in charge of that situation.

[faster horses]

miller got alot of say....Jim Miller is Assistant General Manager  ,,thats second in charge at the track.

Even assuming he could veto the stewards, which he can't, he was supposed to do exactly what--suspend a bug boy for misjudging the wire?

[Chris Szulc]

I THAN SENT THIS BACK TO MILLER BUT HE DIDNT GET BACK TO ME 


TO MILLER
What the judges should of done right away was refund all bets on the race,  and call it a not betting race. because Alejandro Contreras ride in the race just before the wire changed the out come of the race.

No way, no how.

When you bet a horse you are dependent on the rider. They're not going to give away all that handle for a rider's mistake, who is not problematic by the track.

[DaPaver]

I 'am OK with Jim Millers answer on what happened , jock misjudged the wire, it's not the first or last time it will happen. It was good to read there was some type of review, for future infractions with this rider. Part of my handicapping includes the rider on many angles , sprint, route, grass , mdn etc.

[HorseVoice]

miller got alot of say....Jim Miller is Assistant General Manager  ,,thats second in charge at the track.

So...what happens at AP -- where the track's Grand Poobah, Dick D., sometimes run his own horses?
 
If he doesn't like the outcome of a race, what is it you think HE can do? Change the order of finish?

There is a reason why the track owners and the Jim Millers of the world don't have any say over what happens during a race -- separation of duties, conflict of interest, etc. I'm shocked that a bettor who is as experienced as you supposedly are didn't know this already.

[brianwspencer]

So...what happens at AP -- where the track's Grand Poobah, Dick D., sometimes run his own horses?
 
If he doesn't like the outcome of a race, what is it you think HE can do? Change the order of finish?

There is a reason why the track owners and the Jim Millers of the world don't have any say over what happens during a race -- separation of duties, conflict of interest, etc. I'm shocked that a bettor who is as experienced as you supposedly are didn't know this already.

And even if they COULD, it still wouldn't be right in a situation like this. (ETA: Which I know YOU know, so please don't think the rest of this post is directed at you lol)

That is, unless I can go demand a refund when my rider goes too fast on the front end with a lone speed horse and tires, which is a rider mistake.

Or when my rider puts my horse in tight off heels for 5/8 of a mile in a route race, also a rider mistake, and I'd also like a refund.

Or when my rider accidentally whips another horse's nose in the stretch and then crosses the wire first and gets taken down. That rider mistake should also, instead of just being chalked up to the kind of bad luck we will all experience in varying forms throughout our time playing the horses, void the entire race and they should just retroactively cancel it so I don't have to nurse my own feelings back to health because something bad happened to me.

Doesn't mean it is a painless experience to be holding a ticket when that happens, but that the idea of somehow declaring a race void as a wagering entity because of an individual rider error is so absurd it should be rejected outright.

[hungry]

Ok, so i read Jim MIller's e mail to cliffy and it seems like this was just 'rider error'.

Let me ask you all a question.

What's the difference (TO YOU) if its an honest jockey mistake or an actual fixed race?

And, if the horse races are put on ONLY to accept wagering, isnt this all that matters....how the PUBLIC is affected?

Understand what i'm saying?

[arlingtonmatt]

I'd be upset if I was cliffy too. I mean, do you see this guy's picks? Not much cash rollin in.

[g3tPWNed_24]

Ok, so i read Jim MIller's e mail to cliffy and it seems like this was just 'rider error'.

Let me ask you all a question.

What's the difference (TO YOU) if its an honest jockey mistake or an actual fixed race?

And, if the horse races are put on ONLY to accept wagering, isnt this all that matters....how the PUBLIC is affected?

Understand what i'm saying?

theres easier and much much less transparent ways to "fix" a race or "stiff a horse" than what happened here, have to agree that its rider error in this instance. dont think a bug would be in on something like that anyways, especially one just starting out on a new circuit for his or her self

[hungry]

theres easier and much much less transparent ways to "fix" a race or "stiff a horse" than what happened here, have to agree that its rider error in this instance. dont think a bug would be in on something like that anyways, especially one just starting out on a new circuit for his or her self

I agree that it was rider error. However, my point was this. Whether or not it was an intentional fixed race, there's no difference between rider error and actual fix. In other words, to the bettors, its the same end result. Whether or not this jock intentionally did what he did or he did it my 'mistake' the outcome, to the bettor, is the same.

To the bettors of the race, fix or mistake, its all the same.

[jgp]

Thats part of the 30-1 odds your getting, an inexperienced jockey.  Seems pretty logical to me.  It sucks, but thats part of the game.  If Roman or Flourent were up, I doubt youd get those odds.

[cliffyy]

Thats part of the 30-1 odds your getting, an inexperienced jockey.  Seems pretty logical to me.  It sucks, but thats part of the game.  If Roman or Flourent were up, I doubt youd get those odds.

so what you are saying is when someone bets a bug jock or a inexperienced jockey and that jockey pulls up way before the wire oh well my bad for betting him ?  what if he was on a 4/5 shot and did the same thing the public would be jumping on the track to hang him.

[cliffyy]

what i dont understand when i watch the replay is he keeps looking to his left looking at the #6 horse it almost looks like he wanted the #6 horse to pass him.

watch close


i watched it over 50 times the more i watch it i more i wonder about his ride.

[cliffyy]

watch him on the replay at the 2:58 mark to 3:10 mark on the video

watch the way he keeps looking to the left ,,,watch when he passes the #6 horse that when he stops riding and stands up and lets the #6 horse come back in front of his horse.


tell me i am seeing things

http://www.hawthorneracecourse.com/live_racing/replay_helper.php?date=120226-06.f4v

[Ed]

Just an apprentice jockey mistake 

[jgp]

Contreras made 270 instead of 810 for the ride.  I think it was just a bad ride....

[pamwaggy]

Just an apprentice jockey mistake

Looked like that to me.  I kept watching over and over.  All I could come up with was that.

[hungry]

Its a great way to stiff a horse..just say to the judges "oops, i screwed up, mental error" and they'll let you slide.

[pamwaggy]

But would an apprentice try to get away with that?  Wouldn't that be stupid?

[honest & balanced terry]

No way, no how.

When you bet a horse you are dependent on the rider. They're not going to give away all that handle for a rider's mistake, who is not problematic by the track.

Right, exactly. One of the brightest horseplayers I've ever met (and some others here know him too), Jim Dennis, always used to write that when you placed a bet you were taking your chances on the horse AND that horse's rider (and the trainer, and etc.) It's not simply a matter of "best horse".    

[HarnessFanDE]

Its a great way to stiff a horse..just say to the judges "oops, i screwed up, mental error" and they'll let you slide.

Do you really think....I mean here with the rest of us on "Planet Earth"......That a jockey would put a horse in that position......Pound the living daylights out of him right handed for 1/8 mile......And then decide at he last minute he doesn't want to win the race?.....If he wasn't trying to win the race he never would have put himself in that kind of position to begin with

[frankiefish721]

There is no rule in the book for a jockey misjudging the finish line! it is the jockeys fault. Why should they declare it a non starter? The stwards were correct this time.

[Chris Szulc]

Just FYI Contreras was fined $500 for misjudging the finish

[jgp]

seems fair, Ive noticed hes gotten a lot of good mounts recently.