Hawthorne Race 6

[amtino06]

Fourth winner for Kirby on the card! Anybody take note of the ride by Alejandro Contreras on the 5? 30-1 bomb. Looked like he had the race won and just absolutely stopped riding 25 yards out, they even put up the inquiry sign but the video showed him just easing up on the horse plain and simple....I don't know if he felt something wrong or if he thought the wire had come up, but if I had money on the horse I would've been fuming.

[Chris Szulc]

Yeah, looked like a bogus ride. I sure hope the stewards call him in for a visit.

[Daddys Next]

While you are on the topic of the sixth race, could anyone tell me why Jesse Lantz seemed to be flopping around in the saddle so much down the back stretch.  He was riding what should have been a "live horse", and it was his only race on the day.  I watch a lot of races, and it seems to me that most jockey's sit chilly.  Down the backstretch, it sure seemed like Lantz was trying to strangle the horse.  Did he lose an iron, and was trying to get it back.  Is that how he always rides?  I usually don't notice the jockey as much as in this race.  Third Rail was no where in the stretch, but as you say, the 50 - 1 shot was right there.

[amtino06]

While you are on the topic of the sixth race, could anyone tell me why Jesse Lantz seemed to be flopping around in the saddle so much down the back stretch.  He was riding what should have been a "live horse", and it was his only race on the day.  I watch a lot of races, and it seems to me that most jockey's sit chilly.  Down the backstretch, it sure seemed like Lantz was trying to strangle the horse.  Did he lose an iron, and was trying to get it back.  Is that how he always rides?  I usually don't notice the jockey as much as in this race.  Third Rail was no where in the stretch, but as you say, the 50 - 1 shot was right there.

Saw the same thing, it was just a bizarre race all around.

[g3tPWNed_24]

didnt get to the track today till the 7th race actually but heard several people talking about it. hawthorne has the replay of every race from today except the 6th on their site, not to mention the quality of their replays is still awful

[honest & balanced terry]

didnt get to the track today till the 7th race actually but heard several people talking about it. hawthorne has the replay of every race from today except the 6th on their site, not to mention the quality of their replays is still awful

Race replay still isn't up there even today. That's just bizarre that an "odd" race would not appear on the replays. Bad breakdowns I've heard of not showing up, but a race where people question the rides? Makes things look even worse that the "evidence" isn't there to review. 

[The Turf Monster]

I don't know that the 5 would have won, but that was a garbage ride.  Let's see how Hawthorne reacts to it. 

[HorseVoice]

Anybody take note of the ride by Alejandro Contreras on the 5? 30-1 bomb. Looked like he had the race won and just absolutely stopped riding 25 yards out, they even put up the inquiry sign but the video showed him just easing up on the horse plain and simple....I don't know if he felt something wrong or if he thought the wire had come up, but if I had money on the horse I would've been fuming.

You might want to take a look at the head-on (it's on Twin Spires) before alleging that the apprentice eased up on the horse "plain and simple".

Whether Inez pulled a quick race riding trick or whether it "just happened", her mount came in a bit on the #5 -- enough to tighten things up and distract the kid (he stopped whipping and was just about to check his horse), but not far enough to make contact.

Nothing scandalous here. There is a reason why the rider has a superscript "7" next to his weight in the program -- he's a little green, still much to learn. Yesterday, Inez schooled him...plain and simple. 

[amtino06]

You might want to take a look at the head-on (it's on Twin Spires) before alleging that the apprentice eased up on the horse "plain and simple".

Whether Inez pulled a quick race riding trick or whether it "just happened", her mount came in a bit on the #5 -- enough to tighten things up and distract the kid (he stopped whipping and was just about to check his horse), but not far enough to make contact.

Nothing scandalous here. There is a reason why the rider has a superscript "7" next to his weight in the program -- he's a little green, still much to learn. Yesterday, Inez schooled him...plain and simple. 

That was the first thing I did HV, I watched the Hawthorne head on and the Twinspires head on a few times. Karlsson was ecstatic after the race, talking to Kirby like a proud daughter to her dad, Kirby kind of hustled her along out of the picture pretty quick. You may be right, the spot was a little tight and she seemed like she was telling a great story (which I would love to hear) but to me it looks like he just stopped riding, he was in fairly tight for a while, unless she yelled something or got him to think the wire was past I don't know. You are right he is an apprentice I just think we might see something come from this. Just to clarify, I do not think Kirby or Inez is invlolved in any fishy business but the fact that the replay is kept off Hawthorne's site and an inquiry sign was put up leads me to tink some people may want Contreras reprimanded. HV since you have Twinspires please watch the race again and look at the close up slo-mo they put up about 20 seconds after if you havent already.

[HorseVoice]

You are right he is an apprentice I just think we might see something come from this.

Perhaps. You can't be a professional jockey if you crap your pants every time another rider makes a move on you.

Just to clarify, I do not think Kirby or Inez is invlolved in any fishy business but the fact that the replay is kept off Hawthorne's site and an inquiry sign was put up leads me to tink some people may want Contreras reprimanded.

I want to clarify something, too: when I say maybe Inez was "race riding", I mean that she was being very aggressive in trying to win the race, but I'm not insinuating anything dirty; whether a rider's aggressiveness is too much is up to the stewards. If my betting money is on the line (or if it were my horse), I want that rider doing every legal thing it takes to WIN.

I think you are reading too much into the race replay not appearing on Hawthorne's web site. They have issues with individual race replays every so often. I think this is a mere coincidence. I'll see what I can find out.
 

HV since you have Twinspires please watch the race again and look at the close up slo-mo they put up about 20 seconds after if you havent already.

OK, will do, and report back later. For the record: totally dispassionate about the whole thing, had $0.00 invested into race.

[amtino06]

[quote
 OK, will do, and report back later. For the record: totally dispassionate about the whole thing, had $0.00 invested into race.
[/quote]
Thank You, please let us know if you find anything, I had just as much wagered on this race as you did as well, but it caught my eye and I believe this attention is deserved.

[childewood]

I just watched the replay and yes it looks like the kid just stopped riding. Stood up way before the finish line.
Maybe he misjudged the finish line ala Shoe in the 57 Derby. 
Some body mentioned the 8 with Lantz riding. The horse looked like he just hit the wall, maybe he bled.

[faster horses]

Inez is a hard-assed competitor, so I don't doubt for a minute that she may have squeezed some green kid.  There's nothing wrong with that.  And I'm sure she gives a little extra for Kirby, who I think was very important to getting her started (if I remember right).  Also, to go back to the beginning of the thread, what's the point of stiffing a 30-1 shot?  Not usually the way to put one over.

[cliffyy]

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE POST THE 6TH RACE VIDEO ITS NOT THE Hawthorne SITE.

[amtino06]

Inez is a hard-assed competitor, so I don't doubt for a minute that she may have squeezed some green kid.  There's nothing wrong with that.  And I'm sure she gives a little extra for Kirby, who I think was very important to getting her started (if I remember right).  Also, to go back to the beginning of the thread, what's the point of stiffing a 30-1 shot?  Not usually the way to put one over.

You're right what is the point of stiffing a 30-1 shot? But that's part of why I found this race so odd, he was whipping and driving on this race from the quarter poll, a 'stiff' is rarely this obvious which is why I find this so interesting. Though I never said he stiffed the horse, I dont know exactly what he did, I just know he stopped riding and after looking at this race over and over in my opinion it was not because he was put in tight. And Cliffy I am sorry but I am unable to post this replay......and I'm sorry Hawthorne wont put it up either.

[The Turf Monster]

The replay is on the twin spires site

[DaPaver]

Where is Jim Miller on this ? Does Hawthorne post stewards ruling's. Other than a breakdown I dont recall a missing replay in the middle of the day's card?

[Chris Szulc]

Rulings are posted on the IRB's site on a monthly basis with about a month's lag.

[Ed]

Anybody know if anything ever came of this? I see that the replay is up on the HAW site. Did Jim Miller ever comment?

[amtino06]

Anybody know if anything ever came of this? I see that the replay is up on the HAW site. Did Jim Miller ever comment?

Unfortunately, no...Contreras and Haran came back the next racing day and won two races and Miller praised him the following race day on his 'barn notes'. I would've liked some explanation but it doesn't look like they are going to do anything. I'm a little dissapointed to say the least.

[pamwaggy]

Me too.  Especially since Jim Miller is usually so forthcoming.

[cliffyy]

i emailed miller and this is what he sent me.

Hi Cliff,

My apologies for your feelings but I'm not sure how you can blame me or Hawthorne for what happened in that race.

In that race, the bug boy misjudged the 70 yard pole for the finish line and stood up early.

The stewards spoke to the rider and he admitted that to be the case.

The rider was fined by the stewards for the incident.

Also, I immediately alerted the on air TVG staff and posted it on twitter. Not sure what else I could do as I wasn't on TVG anymore that day.

Also, this has happened numerous times in the industry before, Bill Shoemaker did it in the Derby.

There is no punishment Hawthorne can hand out for the mistake. The stewards handed out their punishment and the rider had to deal with the owner or trainer.

Sorry if you're upset but I think we did everything we could.

Jim

Sent from my iPhone

[cliffyy]

I THAN SENT THIS BACK TO MILLER BUT HE DIDNT GET BACK TO ME 


TO MILLER
What the judges should of done right away was refund all bets on the race,  and call it a not betting race. because Alejandro Contreras ride in the race just before the wire changed the out come of the race.

[cliffyy]

i emailed miller and this is what he sent me.

Hi Cliff,

My apologies for your feelings but I'm not sure how you can blame me or Hawthorne for what happened in that race.

In that race, the bug boy misjudged the 70 yard pole for the finish line and stood up early.

The stewards spoke to the rider and he admitted that to be the case.

The rider was fined by the stewards for the incident.

Also, I immediately alerted the on air TVG staff and posted it on twitter. Not sure what else I could do as I wasn't on TVG anymore that day.

Also, this has happened numerous times in the industry before, Bill Shoemaker did it in the Derby.

There is no punishment Hawthorne can hand out for the mistake. The stewards handed out their punishment and the rider had to deal with the owner or trainer.

Sorry if you're upset but I think we did everything we could.

Jim

Sent from my iPhone

I LIKE HOW MILLER SAID BILL SHOEMAKER AND OTHERS HAVE DONE  IT ,,,SO WHATS THE BIG DEAL ?

WELL I HAD THE PICK3 FOR $5 DOLLARS IF #5 CATHYS BREEZE  WINS.
HOW WOULD JIM MILLER FEEL IF HE HAD that TICKET ?

[APCD Dan]

I LIKE HOW MILLER SAID BILL SHOEMAKER AND OTHERS HAVE DONE  IT ,,,SO WHATS THE BIG DEAL ?

WELL I HAD THE PICK3 FOR $5 DOLLARS IF #5 CATHYS BREEZE  WINS.
HOW WOULD JIM MILLER FEEL IF HE HAD IT TICKET ?

Cliffy, Jim Miller does not control the stewards.  They rule on the race.  It was a legit race because jockeys make mistakes all the time.  You sure do complain a lot.  I have a complaint too, shut off those damn capitals!!!!!