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Author Topic: Yonkers casino expansion in the works  (Read 2199 times)
handsomeharry76
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« on: February 24, 2012, 03:14:04 PM »

Yonkers casino expansion in the works
 
Empire City Casino will add more high-tech gaming machines and two restaurants, an upscale Irish pub and a casual beer-oriented steakhouse.
By Lisa Fickenscher
 
February 24, 2012 3:42 p.m.
 
Resorts World Casino, which opened in Ozone Park, Queens, last October has been grabbing all the headlines lately, but its nearby competitor in Yonkers is quietly expanding, gussying up its five-year-old racino.
 
Empire City Casino at Yonkers Raceway is investing $40 million to add 30,000 square feet for new electronic table games. It's also adding two restaurants: an upscale Irish pub and a casual beer-oriented steakhouse.
 
“We are hoping it will be a vibrant, exciting place that is loud and crowded,” said Tim Rooney Jr., whose family owns the racino.
 
Since Resorts World Casino opened, it has siphoned many of Empire City's customers who live in Queens, Brooklyn and Long Island.

“Our numbers are flat,” said Mr. Rooney. “We lost our growth.”

Mr. Rooney—his father, the late Art Rooney Sr., was the founding owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers—is investing to better compete. But he also supports Resorts World Casino in its efforts to lobby New York for legislation allowing live table gambling.
 
If the state approved such a measure, Mr. Rooney said he would invest a great deal more in his Westchester County racino.
 
“We are not a destination casino right now,” he added, “but we'd like to become one similar to Mohegan Sun.”

His plans include a $300 million to $400 million investment in developing a hotel, as well as meeting and entertainment spaces for corporate events and concerts.
 
“It doesn't make sense to do that right now unless live gaming is allowed,” he said. The table games attract more prosperous customers than those who come to play the slot machines.


Read more: http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20120224/HOSPITALITY_TOURISM/120229938&utm_source=Daily%2BAlert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletters#ixzz1nKtauMCT
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Homestretch
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2012, 07:19:19 PM »

Hard to believe the statement that "the numbers are flat"
Probably a 20% loss in revenue is more accurate !
 sneaky sneaky
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Brother Orchid
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2012, 07:53:50 PM »

It's hard to believe that horsemen forgot that just a short time ago the ROONEY family had a for sale sign on the roof of the club house roof, and ten fifty gallon garbage cans gathering the rain that was falling from the ceiling, all while being the only harness track in the lower most populated
area of NEW YORK STATE, The ROONEY family, that is the TIM ROONEY FAMILY, AND HIS SON IN LAW  are what is refered to in the realy estate industry as SLUM LORDS, they refused to clean the bathrooms, have all the individuals smoking reefer in the stair well removed , closed the good time room and closed snack bars in the what was then refered to as the club house.
       
        The opening oF the AQUEDUCT RACINO  is surely taking customers from the YONKERS RACINO not because of geografics but because they are in the gambling business, and they realize what wantin the area of customer services, like politeness ,cleanlyness, security, and YONKERS will revert to the same scenerio that was previlent when it was just a racetrack

       Once a slumlord always a SLUMLORD ALWAYS A SLUMLORD""""""""""

Since taking over the owner ship of YONKERS RACEWAY the only inprovement was painting barns A'B' C' GREEN AND WHITE and that was because of the OLD GLORY SALE being conducted in them barns.
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Homeboyhanover
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2012, 09:08:10 AM »

Let's give them a little more credit than that, Brother. If you go to the NYS lottery website, you will see all the numbers for all the VLTs. I tracked them from the first day The Big opened. And, I was watching as there was a steady 20% reduction at Yonkers at the same time.
 Much to my surprise, Yonkers has regained some market share and Aqueduct has trended flat.
 The Rooney's are solid business people. They did make capital improvements to the track and clubhouse. As a mater of fact, when Roosevelt closed, Yonkers did a total remodel that placed Yonkers clubhouse with the aesthetics of a 4 star hotel.It was by far the best of any harness track in the country.  All the brass, glass and oak gave it a look and feel of a bakers or oil mans club.
 To bad it was just a better looking place for the same homeless looking SOBs that harness seems to attract.
As for today, and it is today, Yonkers offers the best money to horsemen and owners, 220+ times a night. For that is all that there is today in harness racing. Money for some. There is no state of the art facility that makes you feel better when you are there than anywere else. There is no more vast camaraderie with other racing fans.
There is zero trust in the betting product. The only thing left is the money. And Yonkers distributes more of other people's money to horsemen than any other harness track in the world.
So, if you look at Yonkers by to days standards , Yonkers is still The Empire Club.
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Brother Orchid
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2012, 03:23:39 PM »

I  believe you are over stating some of the facts some true to an extent and some to be believed if you are the ROONEY FAMILY.
    Good business people i agree to some extent, they purchased YONKERS RACEWAY , and with the raceway also included in the package was a cab co
i believe it was called TERMINAL CAB, AND ALSO INCLUDED A HORSE FARM UPSTATE, both were sold immediately, the cab co. alone may have returned  a good price, and later the horse farm both sales reduced the orginal purchase price  of the raceway imminsely and immediately, THAT WAS GOOD BUSINESS,
     TOTAL REMODELING JOB is where i find fault. your so called total remodeling was when they made some remodeling , it was based on the 1890's and it was not and i repeatnot done at the 1988 closing of ROOSEVELT RACEWAY, the improvements were a wall in the winners circle with no drainage, flooded and iced in winter
the GOOD TIME ROOM was seperated from the dinning room , supposedlt for special occasions?
their were tv's on tables in the dinning room, but the food, customer service was the same terrible and it was often heard by owners, patrons who went to dinner that"WHAT DID YOU COME HERE TO DO EAT OR GAMBLE"
AND THE BRASS AND GLASS YOU MUST BE REFERING TO, they were constructed as lodge boxes for owners, but as time progressed they became haven for gamblers with infulence because the access to these boxes were from the upper floor of the club house and one  had to be carefull of the bird droppingsthat were on the rafters,and one had to be known to sit in the lodge boxes by the security that was some time present?
    And to be honest there were some improvements to the hambuger stand on the bottom flor on the club house, that is not whar=t one would call a complete remodeling job by on means.

   And as far as ROONEY, YONKERS , giving the best money here i also disagree i do believe the embelished purses are due to the introduction of VTL machines, therefore the money's being paid to the horsemen are
 what theY AGREED TO WITH THE STATE of NY.Y, not TIM ROONEY as your blog implies.

NOW what track improvements were made by the ROONEY family
    1. MOST OF THE IMPROVEMENTS DONE TO THE TRACK WERE FIANCED BY THE STATE OF N.Y, UNDER THE GUISE OF CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS
the hedged aroung the infield were once paid for by capital improvements to the tune of 20,000 dollars
It got so bad recent years capital improvements had to be shown to state employes before funds would be made available for repairs, THIS MAY ALSO BE INCLUDED IN THE GOOD BUSINESS PEOPLE THE ROONEYS ARE.
 
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Homeboyhanover
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« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2012, 04:30:26 PM »

Ok brother. There is no sense in comparing opinions. i have mine and you have yours.
So, what is it you would like to see the Rooney's do with yonkers Raceway.
 If you were spending your money, what would you do? Would it be profitable?
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Brother Orchid
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2012, 05:13:44 PM »

Everyone is entittled to their own oponion, because they are your oponions  and are not documented by facts,my oponion is the use of words like complete remodeling,when some lodge seats are newly furnished
and saying YONKERS is giving a large distribution of revenue received from VTL'S AND NOT MENTIONING THAT THE STATE OF NEW YORK IS THE ONE PAYING THE HORSEMEN, JUST AS NEW YORK STATE IS PAYING YONKERS A RENT FOR THE USE OF THEUR RACE TRACK VENUE.
   As far as ROONEY wishing the state would allow table games sounds like A MARKETING PLOY, yes i'm sure Resorts, and every other racino in the state WILL AGREE WITH ROONEY in his wish to establish table games would it not give more guaranteed  income to there monopoly.
    As  as the sob's THAT HARNESS ATTRACKS you know those individuals who smoke weed in stair wells  they are not  listed anywhere to my knowledge  as only native to the stair wells of YONKERS RACEWAY.
and so are easier removable with little effort when WANTING TO. 
 
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Homeboyhanover
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2012, 07:25:07 PM »

i don't disagree with what you have to say, Brother. i am asking for the sake of conversation and the sharing of ideas, what would you do with Yonkers if it was your decision to make.
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Brother Orchid
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2012, 08:14:04 PM »

I have all ways believed that  in any business that deals with gamblers. or any type of customers that any employee not doing his or her best to comply with this edict should be taken aside and spoken to about what our customer friendly policy is.

    also cleanlyness is next to godlyness, the entire place shouldbe spotless

    ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE WITHIN THE BUDGET.
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Homeboyhanover
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2012, 09:54:49 PM »

Can't argue with that.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2012, 08:50:03 AM »

I have all ways believed that  in any business that deals with gamblers. or any type of customers that any employee not doing his or her best to comply with this edict should be taken aside and spoken to about what our customer friendly policy is.

    also cleanlyness is next to godlyness, the entire place shouldbe spotless

    ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE WITHIN THE BUDGET.

Why should the track owners be held to this standard when the horsemen themselves rarely if ever have?
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Homestretch
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2012, 09:16:28 AM »

Let's give them a little more credit than that, Brother. If you go to the NYS lottery website, you will see all the numbers for all the VLTs. I tracked them from the first day The Big opened. And, I was watching as there was a steady 20% reduction at Yonkers at the same time.
 Much to my surprise, Yonkers has regained some market share and Aqueduct has trended flat.
 The Rooney's are solid business people. They did make capital improvements to the track and clubhouse. As a mater of fact, when Roosevelt closed, Yonkers did a total remodel that placed Yonkers clubhouse with the aesthetics of a 4 star hotel.It was by far the best of any harness track in the country.  All the brass, glass and oak gave it a look and feel of a bakers or oil mans club.
 To bad it was just a better looking place for the same homeless looking SOBs that harness seems to attract.
As for today, and it is today, Yonkers offers the best money to horsemen and owners, 220+ times a night. For that is all that there is today in harness racing. Money for some. There is no state of the art facility that makes you feel better when you are there than anywere else. There is no more vast camaraderie with other racing fans.
There is zero trust in the betting product. The only thing left is the money. And Yonkers distributes more of other people's money to horsemen than any other harness track in the world.
So, if you look at Yonkers by to days standards , Yonkers is still The Empire Club.
I can't seem to bring up those numbers.
Can you help ?
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Homeboyhanover
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« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2012, 09:35:19 AM »

I will leave the obvious attempts at comedy and give you the link.

http://nylottery.ny.gov/wps/portal
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Brother Orchid
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2012, 11:33:57 AM »

LOVE SIGN,
         The standards that i was refering to was a request by a fellow blogger asking me personally what i would i do if i had a say in the ''what would you do senerio" at the racino at YONKERS RACEWAY, I believe that it may be unknown to many but the reality is the ROONEYS are the landlord, owning or leaseing space to vendors,basicly they are the landlords and are paid by the state of NEW YORK who are the tennents owners of the VLTS, SUPPLYING MAINTIANCE, SECURITY, ETC,
         I believe your reference in your blog you are confusing customer services in a RACINO with horsemens unethical, illegal conductone has nothing to do with the other

          I wasn't asked but i will reply to your request
          1, rACETRACKS CAN REFUSE ENTRIESFROM HORSEMEN, DENY STALLS ETC, UNDER THE PRIVATE PROPERTY LAWS?
          2, tHE HORSEMEN HAVE KNOW RIGHT IN SAYINYING WHO CAN OR CANT PLAY AT THE RACINO
              THEREFORE SAYING THAT PEOPLE SMOKING WEED IN HALL WAYS
ARE THE PRODUCT OF HARNESS RACING IS JUST TO RIDULES TO ANSWER
          3, A PRIME EXAMPLE OF  ZERO TRUST IN THE BETTING PRODUCT, FALLS ON THE SHOULDERS OF THE RACE SEC, AND MGT, WAS IT NOT BOTH WHO JUST RECENTLY EXCLUDED A TRAINER, WITHOUT FACTS, ONLY TO CHANGE DIRECTION IN MID STREAM AND ALLOW THE TRAINER BACK WITH OPEN ARMS, AND TO ADD THEY (MANAGEMENT) DID NOT ANSWER THE REAL QUESTION ,"""DID THIS TRAINER HAVE MORE THAN ONE HORSE IN A RACE"" i think you will agree it's situations like this that give the betting public no trust in the betting product IMHO?
       
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Yimmy
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2012, 11:38:22 AM »

People aren't staying away because of the exclusion of Pena... by and large, they are staying away because the powers that be took entirely too long to toss or curtail these guys in the first place.

Seriously... those summer claiming races at any of the Eastern seaboard tracks (especially frequent at the PA tracks) with the Pena claim, the Casie claim, the Oakes claim, the Sherman claim, the Koz claim and the Robinson claim, often from each other... who the heck wants to bet that kind of crap? 

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Brother Orchid
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« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2012, 11:48:13 AM »

i think where in the same church but different pews

            THANKS FOR YOUR TIME
                       ORCHID
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Yimmy
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« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2012, 11:54:24 AM »

I hope so.  Smiley
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Homeboyhanover
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« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2012, 02:16:08 PM »

I think the both of you still did not answer the question. The both of you have no problem making known what you think are problems but, offer no solutions. solutions in the realm of doing business. Not a wish list but, decisions that come with reactions and consequences.
 If I was Rooney, and I have no feeling for him one way or the other, here is what I would do differently. Nothing. The product all cleaned up, spit shined and polished is still unsellable. It has been that way for 20 years. Any business that fails to grow their customer base is a a failed business. For many years, the Rooney's have spent countless dollars in selling and promoting the business and it never returned a positive dime. The only way to gain market share was in simulcasting. That has been the only growth,other than state mandated OTB payments until they and others bankrupted NYC OTB. Everything Else's has been a looser.  I would not spend a dollar to hope and pray it returns me a penny. As my responsibility to the racing comunity, I would do what I could to get you all the money you had a right to in the form of purses.
As for anything else, it is a shrinking asset with no future. A sane person would not invest in something that has almost no chance to return the investment let alone generate a profit.
 If you believe this to be unfair or unjust, I can certainly see why. The truth is, this is the reality. The real truth is the horsemen know this as well as the short term investors, the owners.
 If you feel that anyone who thinks this way is a fool or somehow wrong, you are free to do or say your mind.
I for one get sick and tired of guys pointing out the obvious faults and cashing the check. If you are really passionate than do something. If not, no big deal, take the money like everyone else. You have had a solid 8 year or so and couple more.
I am sure I have ignited a few fusses here. But, what the hell. It is my opinion.
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Brother Orchid
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« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2012, 03:58:33 PM »

OPONIONS ARE OFTEN FUELED BY EMOTIONS , and as far as igniting a few fuesses i believe in your case you have ignited your own fuss,
     1. First you take the position that asks inquiry into what would someone do if was there money they were spending to make YONKERS racino competitive with the newly opened RESORTS RACINO at AQUEDUCT,
Now you fume that the harness racing is in decline and you are very upset set at individuals who offer no positives only negitives
     2, Agreed by all that harness racing has seen it's better days, and you may be right in giving it eight or ten years?
 You seem to think that TIM ROONEY would be investing his fiances in harness racing OR IS QUITE OVIOUS THAT HE IS INVESTING IN A RACINO HOPING TO GET TABLE GAMES, and then the good business man that he is  would be the owner of a full blown gambling casino, without the harness racing taking some of his profits, HE CARES NOTHING ABOUT HARNESS RACING OTHER THAN IT WAS AN NECESSARY TOOL TO GET A MONOPOLY GAMBLING CASINO
     3, IMHO AS I STATED IN MY PRIOR BLOG which i believe in you  mixed apples and oranges, racino survival ,as to a drowning harness industry was not the topic one would be quite ignorant as to not know the outcome or which industry would surviveno need for glasses as to handicaping that race
NOW you seem to be of the oponion that MR. rooney IS A GOOD BUSINESS MAN , IN WHAT REALM ARE YOU ASKING HARNESS OR RACINO?
when harness racing passes the ROONEYS WILL STILL BE SLUM LORDS IN THEIR QUEST TO TAKE ON RESORTS HEAD TO HEAD, And will gradually go back to there old habits when the glitter or the racino bottom line is reached
they will have the bathrooms serviced by portobile units and refuse dumped in the sewers in the back strech like was a common practice duriing the fair
and the low lifes will remain in the halls because they are welcomed their as long as they gambleat the racino.
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« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2012, 04:07:00 PM »

If the ship seems to be going down anyway (and here I don't disagree with you, HBH), drastic measures are warranted:

Toss Koz, Coleman, Pena, Burke, Harmon and all beards appurtenant thereto. Period.

Convert the track to 5/8's

Junk conditioned racing.  Revert to straight classified with set claiming levels.  No optional claimers.  No bogus AE conditions.  No NW 4 OR $$$ nonsense.  No late closers

Use your publicity staff to interview drivers and trainers about odd drives, seeming form reversals, oddball wakeups, etc.  Publish the results on a track website.  Maintain a website with replays and a viable chart archive.  Have the public actually interact with each other and with drivers or trainers.  Show that you give a rat's hindquarters what the betting public thinks.

Have the morning line and track "selections" made by a real, knowledgeable horseplayer, not someone's idiot nephew or the kid who sweeps up the pressbox.

Have a racing secretary not afraid to handicap by PP if any race seems too uncompetitive, or to jump obvious standouts 2 classes if necessary.

Have a track ombudsman for the betting public.  If the judges are clueless political appointees (as if often the case), make sure the ombudsman knows what's going on, and give him some power to question horsemen about no-gos, sudden form dropoffs of 6-5 shots, etc.



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wizard78
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« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2012, 04:15:48 PM »

If the ship seems to be going down anyway (and here I don't disagree with you, HBH), drastic measures are warranted:

Toss Koz, Coleman, Pena, Burke, Harmon and all beards appurtenant thereto. Period.

Convert the track to 5/8's

Junk conditioned racing.  Revert to straight classified with set claiming levels.  No optional claimers.  No bogus AE conditions.  No NW 4 OR $$$ nonsense.  No late closers

Use your publicity staff to interview drivers and trainers about odd drives, seeming form reversals, oddball wakeups, etc.  Publish the results on a track website.  Maintain a website with replays and a viable chart archive.  Have the public actually interact with each other and with drivers or trainers.  Show that you give a rat's hindquarters what the betting public thinks.

Have the morning line and track "selections" made by a real, knowledgeable horseplayer, not someone's idiot nephew or the kid who sweeps up the pressbox.

Have a racing secretary not afraid to handicap by PP if any race seems too uncompetitive, or to jump obvious standouts 2 classes if necessary.

Have a track ombudsman for the betting public.  If the judges are clueless political appointees (as if often the case), make sure the ombudsman knows what's going on, and give him some power to question horsemen about no-gos, sudden form dropoffs of 6-5 shots, etc.




Very well said, but what are the chances  ?. Drivers should always be questioned pertaining to suspicious drives and I have screamed about this many times on these forums. Sadly, we'll never see that day. Besides, there would be lines out the judges door every night.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2012, 04:17:10 PM »

Slim and none.  If Ontario pulls the plug, the game dies all over.  It may well anyway.

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VicD
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« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2012, 06:39:19 AM »

Why would the Rooney family give even a little shit about racing?
It's nothing but a loss leader for them today, they need it to run the slots.
Convert the track to 5/8s? Spend money? Why?
Even with a flat or lower bottom line in the casino, they are make huge dollars.
Vampires and leaches sucked the life out of this game for the last 25 or 30 years and now we expect slot machines to patch it up?
Take a close look. It's pretty much done.
And why breed any more horses that are assured to be 5 claimers or less when they hit the ground? We have enough of them now.
You can't fix something in 2012 that should have been fixed in 1990...
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« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2012, 11:45:34 AM »

Sadly, Vic, I cannot disagree with any of that.  All I can do is hope. 
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Homeboyhanover
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« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2012, 06:58:39 PM »

Brother Orchid. I don't know what it is you are saying. let me just som it up. I believe the Rooney family family has managed a dead goat as well as anyone could.
Investing money into a harness racing facilty in the metro NY area is probably a guaranteed looser.
I would never expect anyone to invest their money so I could benefit and they could loose.

MR. Vic and other said all that needs to be said.
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