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Author Topic: hawthorne handle  (Read 1606 times)
pari mutual
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« on: December 31, 2011, 10:33:00 PM »

Happy to see Hawthorne handle increases. Not happy, in fact a bit insulted at the spin Jim put on the way to compare 2011 to 2010. After bragging,quite rightfully,about increased field size and race numbers, he totally avoids a comparison of average handle per race. Guess we will have to wait for Marcus to publish meaningful comparisons.
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Thomas Graham
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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2011, 11:02:15 PM »

Basic PR-101 says lead with/report the good news (or least bad news).  I can't imagine anyone writing it differently.  It's like announcing all the sellouts at Wrigley, Soldier, UC and not mentioning the no-shows.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2011, 11:07:10 PM »

Happy to see Hawthorne handle increases. Not happy, in fact a bit insulted at the spin Jim put on the way to compare 2011 to 2010. After bragging,quite rightfully,about increased field size and race numbers, he totally avoids a comparison of average handle per race. Guess we will have to wait for Marcus to publish meaningful comparisons.

"Average handle per race" really means nothing. It doesn't pay purses.

I'm actually surprised on track and overall handle increased. They seemed to be having trouble with field size in December.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2011, 11:08:51 PM »

Basic PR-101 says lead with/report the good news (or least bad news).  I can't imagine anyone writing it differently.  It's like announcing all the sellouts at Wrigley, Soldier, UC and not mentioning the no-shows.

Very good point.

And the spin doctors at our other local track do the same every year - highlight the positive.
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pari mutual
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2012, 07:47:11 PM »

Thank you Marcus for your article. He clearly demonstrates that the fall meet was hardly the overwhelming success that was claimed. Perhaps Mr Carey should be wise to hire a marketing director who knows how to get out of the office. It might have rained a bit this fall but there was no winter weather. No reason for average on track handle to dip below 100 k per day.
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2012, 08:04:10 PM »

I don't think it was the marketing, seemed to be a descent effort.  Face it, its an old outdated track in a less than desirable area with a  (no offense) less than desirable clientele.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 08:21:42 PM »

Thank you Marcus for your article. He clearly demonstrates that the fall meet was hardly the overwhelming success that was claimed. Perhaps Mr Carey should be wise to hire a marketing director who knows how to get out of the office. It might have rained a bit this fall but there was no winter weather. No reason for average on track handle to dip below 100 k per day.

Unless, perhaps, (and as was noted at the beginning of the meet) you are the type who drives there, and had to deal with the misery of the Central exit from the Stevenson being closed and shoving all that traffic onto Cicero.
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 08:41:03 PM »

No reason for average on track handle to dip below 100 k per day.

"No reason"? Only one of the worst economic situations we've ever seen. C'mon, Joe, you're smarter than that.

Here's another reason, one you couldn't know: "Pete the Greek" never came back after having a stroke early in 2011 -- he was responsible for a *minimum* $10K per day all by himself. No exaggeration.
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Fast n Firm
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 09:04:08 PM »

Thank you Marcus for your article. He clearly demonstrates that the fall meet was hardly the overwhelming success that was claimed. Perhaps Mr Carey should be wise to hire a marketing director who knows how to get out of the office. It might have rained a bit this fall but there was no winter weather. No reason for average on track handle to dip below 100 k per day.
It certainly sounds like you know the management mentality at Hawthorne.  "DO NOTHING".  They do not have a clue on how to promote racing and if they do.....THEY DON'T, because that means spending money.  Also a 100 year old tradition at Hawthorne "DON'T SPEND MONEY".
Let's face it the place is a DUMP, an embarrassment to Horse Racing. 
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 09:34:56 PM »

Let's face it the place is a DUMP, an embarrassment to Horse Racing. 

The usual ignorance, probably from an AP-hugger who hasn't stepped foot inside Hawthorne in years, who thinks fancy marble columns and floors actually has something to do horse racing.    Roll Eyes
 
(Why don't you catch a clue, goober: it's precisely the Carey's attention to the bottom line that has kept that place open over 100 years! Think about that when your favorite overpriced, overburdened racetrack closes its doors, and Hawthorne is still alive and kicking.)
 
 
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The Dark Horse
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 09:43:09 PM »

Not that I know anything at all, but I visited Hawthorne for the first time this year and I was fairly impressed with the quality of racing and customer service.  I mean, overall the product that a track sells is a mutuel ticket.  And my ROI hasn't been this high in Chicago since the 1990's.  I enjoyed my first Hawthorne meet and will definitely be visiting in the spring. 

Besides, let's stop complaining about Illinois racing and start embracing it.  We need to be positive.  Otherwise we could have nothing at all and to me some racing is better than none.
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Chris Szulc
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« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2012, 09:50:40 PM »

It certainly sounds like you know the management mentality at Hawthorne.  "DO NOTHING".  They do not have a clue on how to promote racing and if they do.....THEY DON'T, because that means spending money.  Also a 100 year old tradition at Hawthorne "DON'T SPEND MONEY".
Let's face it the place is a DUMP, an embarrassment to Horse Racing. 

That's a lie. I've heard countless commercials this past fall for Hawthorne on the radio promoting real dirt racing. Contrast this to AP when they advertised on radio either this year or last year mentioned their "Party in the Park" and concerts with little to no mention of TB racing.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2012, 10:17:34 PM »

"No reason"? Only one of the worst economic situations we've ever seen. C'mon, Joe, you're smarter than that.

Maybe some of the same thing that caused average on track daily live handle at Saint Arlington to drop 3% this past season?

Was there an "excuse" for that?
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pari mutual
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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2012, 12:16:08 PM »

Average daily handle at AP was up this year for all sources, I believe by 8 %. Yes AP live dropped 3%. Hawthorne 11%.

For the record,  I like Hawthorne. Fortunately I don't use the Stevenson so I don't have to deal with That situation.

Horsevoice, or whatever name he is using,hit on something. Both tracks have lost heavy hitters for a variety of reasons the past few years with no one coming to the track to replace them. Given the smaller handle at Hawthorne that can make a major difference.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2012, 12:28:43 PM »

Average daily handle at AP was up this year for all sources, I believe by 8 %. Yes AP live dropped 3%. Hawthorne 11%.

Your original bash was based on average on track handle alone.

Perhaps Mr Carey should be wise to hire a marketing director who knows how to get out of the office. It might have rained a bit this fall but there was no winter weather. No reason for average on track handle to dip below 100 k per day.
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pari mutual
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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2012, 12:43:20 PM »

How was it a bash. No rumors. Facts verified by DRF and IRB.  I've been similarly critical of AP when they spin a foul brew
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2012, 12:51:21 PM »

How was it a bash. No rumors. Facts verified by DRF and IRB.

The following is a "fact" verified by the DRF and IRB?

"Perhaps Mr Carey should be wise to hire a marketing director who knows how to get out of the office."
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« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2012, 01:49:11 PM »

So they race five days a week from four and the handle and field size dips,will they go to six days next?
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2012, 02:03:52 PM »

So they race five days a week from four and the handle and field size dips,will they go to six days next?

Let's just cut the Illinois racing calendar down to one glorious mega-purses day per year. Wow, imagine that average daily handle! Guys could oooh and aaahhhh about it for weeks.

Overall meet handle went up. That's more money coming in to the track, more money coming in for purses, and more tax money coming in to the State. Of course, expenses at the track would be up, too, as would total purses disbursed (which of course would be good for horse owners who are paying day rates 7 days/week regardless).

"In 2011, 15 additional racing days led to an all-sources gross handle increase of about 6 percent, from $135,661,986 to $143,569,455, while gross ontrack handle on live Hawthorne races increased about 12 percent over 2010, rising to $5,955,497 from $5,248,589."

http://www.drf.com/news/hawthorne-longer-meet-results-average-handle-dip

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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2012, 02:12:11 PM »

It doesn't matter.Illinois racing is going to be a collection of castoffs and gyps racing at a decrepit inner city facility and an oversized,albeit pristine, suburban one.No national outfits of any note are EVER going to be based here.Three legged horses held together with meds and wraps are going to be the order of the day racing in frigid temps.All anyone can do here now is manage decline and decay,a less than enviable task.The future is not bright and no amount of "welfare",as another poster puts it is going to help.Sorry if it offends anyones delicate sensibilities.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2012, 02:13:50 PM »

It doesn't matter.Illinois racing is going to be a collection of castoffs and gyps racing at a decrepit inner city facility and an oversized,albeit pristine, suburban one.No national outfits of any note are EVER going to be based here.Three legged horses held together with meds and wraps are going to be the order of the day racing in frigid temps.All anyone can do here now is manage decline and decay,a less than enviable task.The future is not bright and no amount of "welfare",as another poster puts it is going to help.Sorry if it offends anyones delicate sensibilities.

What does any of that have to do with racing 4 days or 5, or for that matter, the subject of this thread?
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« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2012, 02:19:09 PM »

So they race five days a week from four and the handle and field size dips,will they go to six days next?

It is ignorant comments like these that cause racetrack management to run and hide from the general public -- "What half-baked, hair-brained question am I going to have to deal with next?"

I'll guarantee you that the issue of how many days to run / how many races to card is quite the compelling and complicated issue at most ALL U.S. tracks, not just Hawthorne; it isn't just a simple wave of the hand, and "OK, let's run FIVE days a week next time." Far, far from it.
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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2012, 02:20:01 PM »

What does any of that have to do with racing 4 days or 5, or for that matter, the subject of this thread?
It has to do with the fact that the racing nabobs in Illinois,both Hawthorne and Arlington,continually try to spin the figures into some sort of viability in the racing world,when the truth is they are A and AA,if they were baseball teams.They are constantly trying to tell us how great and wonderful they are,and people are flocking to bet them,and trainers are lined up at the stable gate to get in.What a crock.
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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2012, 02:25:28 PM »

Illinois racing is going to be a collection of castoffs and gyps racing at a decrepit inner city facility

More misinformed hyperbole.

I haven't been on the backside for awhile, so I can't comment on that, but the physical plant is in just about the best shape I've ever seen in 25 years of attending Chicago racing.

Calling the Hawthorne plant "decrepit" is simply a flat-out LIE. It's clean, well-lighted, and well-maintained.

I dare poster "nmslim" to provide SPECIFIC examples of issues at Hawthorne that could be described as "decrepit" -- this is an Official Barn To Wire BULLSHIT Call.
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honest & balanced terry
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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2012, 02:34:46 PM »

It has to do with the fact that the racing nabobs in Illinois,both Hawthorne and Arlington,continually try to spin the figures into some sort of viability in the racing world,when the truth is they are A and AA,if they were baseball teams.They are constantly trying to tell us how great and wonderful they are,and people are flocking to bet them,and trainers are lined up at the stable gate to get in.What a crock.

Gosh it's so bad I guess we all might just as well shoot ourselves.

You go first.
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