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Author Topic: Ranking the Drivers  (Read 13170 times)
Joe B
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« on: October 25, 2005, 05:52:55 PM »

I'd like to start out by saying I very much enjoy this forum....about 20% of the time....the other 80% is pure bullshit....bashing each other...calling each other trolls.....gets really old guys...and it's obvious some of you are very knowledgeable about the sport and probably love the harness racing game.....if you stuck to legitimate discussions about harness racing rather than all the other crap,it would be much more enjoyable....at least thats my perspective......
I'm just a fan....40 yrs old....been a fan since high school...so I saw the good ol days....loved the summers at old spk 5/8....loved the winter doubleheaders at Haw.....though it's not near the fun it was back then...I still very much enjoy the races.....
Would enjoy hearing everyone's ranking of these drivers.....RJ Anderson...Berry...Hiteman...DMagee...Miller...Morgan....Oosting and Tetrick....
I put these guys into 3 groups: "cowboys" Miller, Berry and Anderson....Miller is definitely talented but this guy would be a tremendous driver if he could show more patience....too many races I see this guy winging out there....overly aggressive too many times....Berry and Anderson are the poor mans version of Andy miller....especiially Anderson who is the worst of the three....
I consider Morgan, tetrick, Oosting and magee as the top four drivers....in that order...they are very good tacticians in my opinion.....and I kinda put Hiteman in a separate category...very patient...too much non aggression at times.....but this is by his choice....he still wins his share....he gets plenty of checks....and he doesn't give a lot of tough trips to his horses....i know a lot of guys rip on Hiteman....but in my opinion, I'll bet there are owners and trainers who appreciate his style....he still seems to get plenty of drives...so there are some connections out there that are happy with his style.....So Id rank this way.....Morgan ( currently the best ) tetrick ( if he stays will be the best when Morgan leaves....and still further upside to tetrick because hes young and still learning ) Oosting ( impresses me more and more every time i see him...) magee ( once the best..
when he was at his best...was better than anyone we've seen in chicago...including morgan...but has lost some aggressiveness as he gets older) miller ( a great talent who does not have enough tact.....too impatient too often....) Hiteman ( consistent....you pretty much know what you're going to get when you bet him....it amazes me to hear guys *** about his non aggressive style when that should be expected....and his style has changed over the years....guys my age surely remember when hiteman was an aggressive guy....esp on the 1/2) berry ( he's a hard one for me because there's times when he looks really good....but lately it seems like hes taken a downturn)  and lastly Anderson who I probably shouldnt even have put on this list....cocky, arrogant, and not a lot of talent in my opinion.....wouls love to hear you're opinion....Joe Bl
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2005, 06:07:12 PM »

Dear Joe:

What a great synopsis of the Chicago driving colony.

I echo your sentiments on all the drivers and your comments about Dale Hiteman are right on target.

The one other driver who has shown me talent is Sam Widger.  He is decent but sometimes he gets caught inside on the mile track.  With Tony leaving there will be holes to be filled. 

Let's see which driver "steps up" or "drives up" to that finish line for us. 
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2005, 06:22:36 PM »

With Darcy going big in the trainer standings, and Rucker heading out east with premium stock, Dave Magee has a shot at top dog after yielding to the likes of Morgan.  If Tetrick takes a shot the Big M again, and Tony heads to Dover, why not ?  Berry is closed, Hiteman will never win in buckets because he is MEGA-CLOSED and has lost his nerve-that's a fact.  He's trying to emulate Pat Day's relaxed style as a pilot.  The big difference is Day always had talent, Hiteman lost 95% of his.  Hiteman's total lack of aggression contrasts the better speed-carrying stock of today's racing scene.  He allows himself to get buried and costs himself over 200 wins a year with poor strategy and lack of racing luck.  The race should be interesting, but some have no chance at assuming the top.  TC 
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burton
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2005, 06:43:12 PM »

Interesting thoughts.
I agree with 90%.
I do remember Hiteman when he excelled at Maywood.
Joe B. is right. The trainers still like him because he takes care of their horses.
At Balmoral Hiteman picks up the pieces while the "cowboys" take the field to a blistering half.
Widger is too inconsistent and seems to get parked from inside posts at Maywood an awful lot. That is inexcusable.
But with the sorry lot we may end up with, he may move up considerably.
Dave Magee was and still is a master of pace.
He did lose some aggression after being involved in a couple of bad wrecks.
I like Oosting alot.
Dosen't lose his cool and takes advantage whenever possible.
Miller is good and could be great.
Still needs to learn to be more patient.
Tetrick is a live driver but still makes alot of "rookie" type errors.
Especially evident in eliminations.
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Joe B
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2005, 06:52:32 PM »

TC - like him or not....Hiteman is still one of the top guys here...what do you think Bill Mcenery's opinion of Hiteman is......I'll bet you he loves him....Hiteman's style keeps horses sound...very rarely does he give one a brutal trip....could he win more with more aggressive efforts..probably....200 more like you state...no way....I have no problem with his style...he's consistent....i agree hes hard to bet because of his style....but you know what you're getting with him.....i'm sure he's made a pretty good living at this game...and i'm sure there are owners / trainers who love him driving their horses....would you use Berry and Anderson over Hiteman if you owned a horse?
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TC
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2005, 08:19:09 PM »

Hiteman crushes more "smart money" than any driver in North America.  Hiteman costs trainers money by shuffling out of higher paying spots.  Who cares about Mc Enery, who has more $$$ than God himself.  I agree with the strategy of taking advantage of ridiculous pace scenarios; it doesn't work out for Hiteman enough to make his style effective.  He does send a horse back fresh-fresh and not rich mostly.  He sends the player home busted 80 times in 100 because he doesn't place winning as a priority.  Take a look at the statistics for the year in the "Hiteman off angle".  You Hiteman lovers will be sent scratching your heads at the gaudy numbers- I guarantee it.  TC
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redneck
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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2005, 08:50:00 PM »

 Top 4


Andy Miller
Dave Magee
Michael Oosting
Tim Tetrick
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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2005, 08:55:16 PM »

These are "post-Tony" rankings.

Dave Magee is on his own plane.  He's lost a step or two, but he's still the best.

From there, I place Oosting, Miller, Tetrick, and Little Joe on the same plane.

Then, Widger and Hiteman.

Afterwards, Berry and RJ.  I won't bet them unless they are head-and-shoulders the best.

Best,
EW
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sn
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2005, 12:00:31 AM »

Top 5 drivers that were down to drive on a race card in Chi. in 05, excluding TM
Ronnie "Boom Boom" Marsh

LaVern "Mr. Sat. night" Hostetler

Walter "Butch" Paisley

"Darlin" Daryl Busse

Dave "The Hands" Magee

There's your top 5, these guys have more wins than the rest of the drivers combined!!!!
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2005, 02:14:02 AM »

The best driver EVER in harness racing is sitting in a jail cell. Walter case is the best driver that harness racing has ever seen. He can get more out of a horse then any human alive.

      Most of you people don't know what true talent really is.
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redneck
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2005, 06:52:32 AM »

The best driver EVER in harness racing is sitting in a jail cell. Walter case is the best driver that harness racing has ever seen. He can get more out of a horse then any human alive.

      Most of you people don't know what true talent really is.


No arguments there but I think we were ranking Illinois drivers after Tony M.

What about Herve Filone?(sp) 15,000 wins something like that.
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burton
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« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2005, 08:19:47 AM »

Well once again the *** Bros. Inc. have spoken and their list of top drivers is from 20 years ago.
With that logic they would say that Hank Aaron would be the best hitter in basebal.
Then sn brings up another embarrassment Walter Case.
You guys sure have an affinity for frauds and jailbirds don't you.
Learn the game laddies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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TC
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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2005, 08:46:59 AM »

Top 4


Andy Miller
Dave Magee
Michael Oosting
Tim Tetrick
Redneck, I'll agree with you here as to the top 4 drivers post-Morgan.  The name I'd give my right arm to see on there is Brent Holland.  He has superior skills to all of these guys at this point in time; he just needs some better horses to drive and a renewed sense of confidence to crack this quartet.  He's the one guy who can take advantage of Tony's departure, because he's a "free agent" moreso than the 4 listed above.  TC
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Joe B
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« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2005, 09:01:01 AM »

tc - 100% agree with you on Holland.....love his ability....seems his focus is not always there....
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2005, 01:27:39 PM »

Well once again the *** Bros. Inc. have spoken and their list of top drivers is from 20 years ago.
With that logic they would say that Hank Aaron would be the best hitter in basebal.
Then sn brings up another embarrassment Walter Case.
You guys sure have an affinity for frauds and jailbirds don't you.
Learn the game laddies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey goof, SN didn't bring up Case I did DAN ***. Are you on drugs or just stupid?

     Speaking of jailbirds whats your Police record? I can brag that I have never been arrested or in trouble with the law. A traffic ticket is my extent of breaking the law.

     I don't care what Case did away from the track. The fact remains that he was and up till now is the best driver harness racing has ever seen. Show me another guy who can jump on a horse he's never sat behind before and win at first asking on a consistant basis. Not only does he win but he carries more then half of them to the wire with his hands alone.

        " LEARN THE GAME LADDIE "
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Joe B
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« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2005, 05:58:37 PM »

Dan *** - Case is the best driver harness racing has ever seen??  cmon now...i know you're a smarter guy than that.....never raced consistently enough with the best competition to make that statement.....the two best ever....Campbell....then LaChance....
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2005, 06:04:14 PM »

Dan *** - Case is the best driver harness racing has ever seen??  cmon now...i know you're a smarter guy than that.....never raced consistently enough with the best competition to make that statement.....the two best ever....Campbell....then LaChance....

NO shot laddie. Case is way better then those guys. Just because they won alot more big races doesn't mean they were better. Nobody can carry a tired horse to the wire like Case can. Case is in a league of his own just like the Babe was in baseball. I don't care about his personal problems all I know is what I saw on the racetrack when I had the pleasure to watch him drive.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2005, 06:07:12 PM »

NO shot laddie. Case is way better then those guys. Just because they won alot more big races doesn't mean they were better. Nobody can carry a tired horse to the wire like Case can. Case is in a league of his own just like the Babe was in baseball. I don't care about his personal problems all I know is what I saw on the racetrack when I had the pleasure to watch him drive.

Dan:
I agree...Case was the best I ever saw. He went to the Meadowlands in his early 20s and immediately was in the top 5. Too bad he was beaten by his personal demons.
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TC
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« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2005, 06:12:48 PM »

If I had a claimer, it's Case by a mile.  If it was a McIntosh-type stakes horse, then Campbell would be an overwhelming choice for me.  Case is and has been a clown for many years and the game never should have afforded the double-digit chances he got IMO.  Of course, it's easy to say now that he finally went to the big house.  There should be a cutoff point in life in having to deal with the devil to get results.  TC
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2005, 06:16:36 PM »

Dan:
I agree...Case was the best I ever saw. He went to the Meadowlands in his early 20s and immediately was in the top 5. Too bad he was beaten by his personal demons.

You see Paul we agree on alot of things because guys like you and SN and I are true students of the game, we're not a bunch of " ghost posters " running our mouths and not knowing jackshit about the game.

     I have watched Case drive at alot of tracks and the guy amazes me at what he can get out of a horse. There are alot of great drivers out there but Case is in a league of his own.
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Joe B
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« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2005, 06:30:32 PM »

Dan - i dont care about his personal problems either....but his personal problems prevented him from being the best he could be......he has great hands...yes....so did JC and Lachance....and JC and Lachance did it in the big time and consistently for years.....Case may have their talent...but he did not perform to the level of JC and ML....i guess that opinion makes me a ghost poster and someone who knows nothing about the game.....i'm starting to see why guys like burton do and say what they say.......how does stating my opinion of who the better driver is make me a ghost poster?  if i know nothing about the game....how did i recall Flip Flop and Fly as on of yours...or how did i remember russ majher?  You certainly throw a lot of bullshit around dan....like i said before i have nothing against you...i dont know what your problem is with me...
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TC
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« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2005, 06:36:11 PM »

Dan - i dont care about his personal problems either....but his personal problems prevented him from being the best he could be......he has great hands...yes....so did JC and Lachance....and JC and Lachance did it in the big time and consistently for years.....Case may have their talent...but he did not perform to the level of JC and ML....i guess that opinion makes me a ghost poster and someone who knows nothing about the game.....i'm starting to see why guys like burton do and say what they say.......how does stating my opinion of who the better driver is make me a ghost poster?  if i know nothing about the game....how did i recall Flip Flop and Fly as on of yours...or how did i remember russ majher?  You certainly throw a lot of bullshit around dan....like i said before i have nothing against you...i dont know what your problem is with me...
What Dan means is you did not post under this screenname on the forum before, you misidentified sn as being part of acts that he was not, and you don't bother to retract such lies when told you are wrong.  Who the best driver is makes for great debate and that's OK.  Spreading false rumors about another poster is b.s. because your way off base.  TC
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burton
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« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2005, 06:55:13 PM »

T.C.
You mean like *** talks about Big Tom?
Or was he juiced 80% of the time?
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Joe B
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« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2005, 07:02:37 PM »

no tc...you're mistaken my friend.....if you look back at my posts, i clearly said to sn that im sure the only lie he said was that he had no clue who George and Robbie were....who he later admitted he knew.....so if thats his only lie...saying he never heard of that crew when in fact he does....then by deduction...the part of him not being a part of that crew must be true.  I'm certain SN would never tell 2 lies...i'm sure his integrity is such that his max lies are at one....so if you look back....i said....those who believe you will believe you...those who dont...won't. What
does your buddy SN do for a living tc....since you seem to know so much about SN and dan that you're doing all the answering for them??
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sn
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« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2005, 07:15:41 PM »

TC isnt answering for us he just knows the truth!!! and he knows you told false rumors!!! I know thousands of people from the track. A lot of theives , robbers, conmen, drug addicts , dope dealers, and guys that carry guns!!! So what??? that doesnt mean that I am involved with their buis. This Black guy Mason was afreind of mine FROM the track!!! I gave him tons of winners and he ALWAYS took care of me. Other than that I didnt have a clue what he did outside the track. All I knew was he showed up every night in a fur coat and a pocket ful of cash Some one told me he was doin 20 to life in Joliet!!! I dont have a clue cause I havent seen him in 10 years but if its true and he needed some $$$ from me I would send it to him.When you said those guys names I didnt have a clue who you meant If I see them face to face then I would know. To say I was part of a stealing crew is RIDICULOUS!!!!
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