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Author Topic: Where do we go from here?  (Read 947 times)
APCD Dan
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« on: November 09, 2011, 11:26:09 PM »

Looks like we lose again.  The reasons for this loss go from primary elections coming up (always an election coming up, it seems) to loss of support after slots were taken out of the Fairgrounds, and finally because of the power of the Big 10 Casinos.  We can live off the fat of the 3% victory for a couple of years, then what?

There seems to be no relief from the legislature coming down in the form of slots or subsidies.  It now becomes clear what the Arlington Park strategy of going for the spring dates was all about.  Without any brilliant new ideas, we are in the survival of the fittest mode.  I am not sure CD will allow Arlington to survive either.

Any more ideas besides better marketing or more publicity?  Both of those options are proving to be non-starters.  I think we will watch our racing from afar in the future.

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Chris Szulc
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 11:33:49 PM »

It sure doesn't look good. Slots or another subsidy deal is definitely not a long-term solution, more intermediate-term to get us through 5 or 10 years as we would have to embark on a nationwide campaign to get people back to the track.

As AP learned this year there's only so many concerts, autograph signings, festivals, "parties in the park" that you can put on...and none of it helps handle. Let's face it, Arlington has shitty horses (I'm talking quality...they're all great animals, don't get me wrong, but the average allowance here is a mid-level claimer at Churchill or Saratoga) and their purses can't compete. As a horse owner myself, I find it very difficult to return to Arlington next year based on the current climate here. Here you pay $65/day and vets rip you off....I race at Penn and pay $50/day and very reasonable vet bills. Purses at Penn, at the lower or mid-level claimers, are 50% higher than here. At the end of the day, it's about making money and you can't survive here. Jesus, look at Parx where they're double.
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kellytuc
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2011, 11:39:42 PM »

Out of Illinois!
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big wally
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2011, 07:33:07 AM »

Kiss the Hawthorne Spring Dates Goodbye... 2012 will be the last
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cubfan
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2011, 08:57:08 AM »

So what's next? SunTImes article said that Lang did some srt of parliamentary procedure that would allow anohter bill to be called.
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Scav
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2011, 09:34:21 AM »

It sure doesn't look good. Slots or another subsidy deal is definitely not a long-term solution, more intermediate-term to get us through 5 or 10 years as we would have to embark on a nationwide campaign to get people back to the track.

As AP learned this year there's only so many concerts, autograph signings, festivals, "parties in the park" that you can put on...and none of it helps handle. Let's face it, Arlington has shitty horses (I'm talking quality...they're all great animals, don't get me wrong, but the average allowance here is a mid-level claimer at Churchill or Saratoga) and their purses can't compete. As a horse owner myself, I find it very difficult to return to Arlington next year based on the current climate here. Here you pay $65/day and vets rip you off....I race at Penn and pay $50/day and very reasonable vet bills. Purses at Penn, at the lower or mid-level claimers, are 50% higher than here. At the end of the day, it's about making money and you can't survive here. Jesus, look at Parx where they're double.

Returning next year shouldn't be a question at all. In the next three years at Arlington, owners have the opportunity to flourish but after that is the concern.

I would love to hear about the vets ripping you off, we have the best vet on the backside and his bills are EXTREMELY reasonable. All he wants is to be paid on time, honestly, I know this for a fact, that the reason vet bills are high is because of the slow pay by most owners. There is 40/50% profit built into their numbers because of people paying in 90 days. You should talk to your vet and ask him about a discount if you pay within 10-15 days.

What is more classic is you talking about 65$ like it is expensive. Catalano is 110 a day
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2011, 09:50:38 AM »

Kiss the Hawthorne Spring Dates Goodbye... 2012 will be the last

Not if they spread out their 3% money wisely and manage to put horses on the track this Spring. "Spring dates" are for local horseman, and they're not likely to go down easy just to assuage Mr. D's huge monopolistic ego.
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Chris Szulc
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2011, 10:37:07 AM »

Returning next year shouldn't be a question at all. In the next three years at Arlington, owners have the opportunity to flourish but after that is the concern.

I would love to hear about the vets ripping you off, we have the best vet on the backside and his bills are EXTREMELY reasonable. All he wants is to be paid on time, honestly, I know this for a fact, that the reason vet bills are high is because of the slow pay by most owners. There is 40/50% profit built into their numbers because of people paying in 90 days. You should talk to your vet and ask him about a discount if you pay within 10-15 days.

What is more classic is you talking about 65$ like it is expensive. Catalano is 110 a day

The purse increase this year at Arlington sure helped, but it still doesn't give any incentive to continue acquiring horses here or not move to Penn National. Even with $5k claimers running for $13.5k at AP, it makes sense to run at Penn or elsewhere.

I don't know specifics about exactly what medications are going into my horses (I leave that to my trainers) but I do know from comparing bills between here and Penn that common things such as Banamine and Cortisone injections are 50-60% more here than Penn. And don't get me wrong, I never said vets can't make a profit and I'm sure there is profit built into the Penn bills. And of course vet bills can differ wildly between horses...monthlys have varied between $350 and $1,400 per horse, depending on the horse.

I had a horse in partnership with Catalano and believe he was $80-85/day or somewhere in that neighborhood. Unless something's changed wildly in 14 months, or you're quoting his Gulfstream or Keeneland rate, I don't think he is $110. Pletcher isn't even $110.
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Chris Szulc
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 10:55:12 AM »

One Month Training and a Win Comparison between Hawthorne and Penn

                                                               HAW                PENN
One Month Training Day Rate          -             $1,950             $1,500
Vet                                            -             $600                $400
Farrier                                        -             $115                $115
Supplements/Additives                   -             $200                $200

Win $5k Claiming Race                   +             $7,500             $10,800
Jock                                           -             $750               $1,080
Trainer 12%                                 -             $900               $1,296
Penn Retirement Fund                    -              -                   $10
Photos                                        -             $75                 $75

Net on Month                                             +$2,910           +$6,124

Where would you race? And if you don't win here, you break-even running 2nd MAYBE. If you don't win at Penn, running 2nd will still make you money on the month, and a 3rd will pay the bills ~ YYMV.
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sporthorse
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2011, 02:30:53 PM »

                                                            horse

   I think the three year plan for the racetracks might turn into a two year plan. All 3 tracks will hold their meets for 2012. What happens after that might be interesting. Depending on the handle next year and how far the 3% actually stretches. Undecided
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2011, 09:15:19 PM »

                                                           horse

   I think the three year plan for the racetracks might turn into a two year plan. All 3 tracks will hold their meets for 2012. What happens after that might be interesting. Depending on the handle next year and how far the 3% actually stretches. Undecided

I will try to answer my own question.  As I have said before, winning the 3% verdict at this time has proved to be a curse.  Outsiders have looked at the 140 million received from casinos and thought why does racing need additional relief or any relief?  Racing has always been looked at with apathy at best or distain at worst by these people.  We can try to paint our cause as preserving jobs or providing revenue to the state, but we still just appear to be an already shady business trying to be greedier.

Terry indicated a point of action (if I have it right) which is to let the situation ride for the next two years, using the 3% money.  Then, hope for a change in the economy and politicians, and try to go from there.  I sort of go along with this idea.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 11:20:21 PM by APCD Dan » Report to moderator   Logged
big wally
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2011, 08:11:20 AM »

Not if they spread out their 3% money wisely and manage to put horses on the track this Spring. "Spring dates" are for local horseman, and they're not likely to go down easy just to assuage Mr. D's huge monopolistic ego.

Well then, lets see the ITHA fill the entry box something they failed to do since OLD SPT had the dates. If not, CDI has a point.
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Round Table
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2011, 11:27:19 AM »

It's pretty simple Dan.  After the new revenue (or however the boat $ is described) is capitalized and expensed, Illinois racing in toto will be re-examined, reviewed and reworked, if reworking is what is needed.

Just hang in there.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 11:40:18 AM by 7474505B » Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2011, 11:51:40 AM »

Well then, lets see the ITHA fill the entry box something they failed to do since OLD SPT had the dates. If not, CDI has a point.

Yes, they will have to do that. However, no matter what happens, I don't believe the local horsemen will go down without a fight. They believe they too have invested a lot of money in Illinois and thus have a claim to some stake in the Illinois racing program. Contrary to popular belief, the racing program and the money the State spends on it it does not exist just to further enrich Dick D. and the stockholders of an out-of-state corporation.
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Round Table
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« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2011, 03:27:16 PM »

mmm... Is that a fact ? 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 04:41:20 PM by 7474505B » Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
big wally
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« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2011, 03:56:04 PM »

Yes, they will have to do that. However, no matter what happens, I don't believe the local horsemen will go down without a fight. They believe they too have invested a lot of money in Illinois and thus have a claim to some stake in the Illinois racing program. Contrary to popular belief, the racing program and the money the State spends on it it does not exist just to further enrich Dick D. and the stockholders of an out-of-state corporation.

Fight on. Fill the entry box . Racing cards with 5 and 6 horse fields will be the ruin not CDI.
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g3tPWNed_24
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« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2011, 01:58:30 AM »

if youre paying $65 a day on a lower claimer here youre getting bent over regardless of how good the trainer is but many owners have been getting bent over here for years as there are some trainers who are below 10% for their careers and charge 60+ a day here. 12% trainers comission chris? ive never paid more than 10
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Chris Szulc
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« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2011, 08:06:21 AM »

if youre paying $65 a day on a lower claimer here youre getting bent over regardless of how good the trainer is but many owners have been getting bent over here for years as there are some trainers who are below 10% for their careers and charge 60+ a day here. 12% trainers comission chris? ive never paid more than 10

10% to trainer, 2% groom tip on wins. 10% 2nd/3rd, 5% under.
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