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Author Topic: fixed race at maywood park  (Read 5080 times)
diamond
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« on: August 20, 2011, 05:03:59 PM »

 Anybody watch John Roberts and Rod Allums Jr. purposely speed duel two horse last night? Third easy hotspur and Skinny Jeans go to a 26:2 quarter and a 54:4 half. This race was fixed for a couple of reasons. First, Third easy hotspur who looked sensational on paper opened up at 12-1 LOL! An indication that she was going to get stiffed and Odds on riesling opens up as the big chalk. The race was set up for Odds on riesling because of the phoney early betting and the way two shady drivers went at it to the half. Odds on riesling was getting ready to sweep the field and win easy, but went on a rare break. In the last 30 years since I was a tot, I have never seen two shady drivers past and present want the lead so bad that one would refuse to duck in this situation. It didn't look like your average speed duel, it looked fake. John Roberts has a history of drugs and Rod Allums is being investigated for betting against himself in a race in which he participated. Third easy hotspur has been racing great from behind, but last night has to wire the field at all costs? As soon as I saw the early betting I knew something was up. Skinny jeans has had the one hole twice in the last three starts and not been on the lead. If these kind of drivers are going to stiff horses like this they better do it a little more sneaky. This just looked to fake! Another race I got a kick out of was the Seawind gambler race. This horse is stuck with pp 7 and looks very lackluster to say the least on paper and earned the 15-1 morning line. However, last night gets bet down to 4-1 and wires the field in 1:54 like a champ. Are the stewards watching these races with a good laugh? It's very entertaining though!  sneaky
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 05:49:29 PM by diamond » Report to moderator   Logged
3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2011, 05:20:23 PM »

Do they have races that aren't fixed?
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JuiceJunkies
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2011, 05:47:34 PM »

Do they have races that aren't fixed?

Maybe rosecroft?
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2011, 06:33:08 PM »

Maybe rosecroft?

As that is the only track i can really vouch for there are tons of drivers and horseman there I will vouch for.

I just ask if other tracks are not why do people bother?

There are some crooks here but I actually learned how to use them in bets.
I fell they have helped me actually.
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FILLYNATION
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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2011, 07:27:19 AM »

Allums and Roberts are just two drivers with limited skills who hooked up in  a speed battle . These two couldn't fix a broken watch together much less a race together . I really think Roberts tries with every horse
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burton
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« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2011, 07:41:37 AM »

Funniest thread of the week.
LOL!!!!!!!
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diamond
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« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2011, 08:26:15 AM »

 If John Roberts took my horse to a 26:2/54:4 half I guarantee you he would be doing anything but laughing. I will never give him the oppurtunity. He has asked me to go to a bar on north avenue drinking with him several times in the not so far past, and there is a difference between trying and just being plain stupid and ruining a horse he has no training or ownership interest in. Or, not having to pay any of the vet bills that are inquired for beating a horse up for no reason. The drivers I use are professional, do well, and don't abuse the animal. If I had a nickel for everytime Roberts hit Little Pauli in the stretch and not the shaft I could pay off the national debt! bang head
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IRA
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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2011, 10:03:11 AM »

I KNOW 4 A FACT THIS WAS NOT A FIXED RACE !!  rod was told to leave they thought roberts would let him go !! i didnt. i know rod bet the horse and so did barnard . u guys need to stop talking nonsense about fixed races on here.  roberts was sending rod a mess. when ive got the rail dont leave !!!  they both looked like fools , ill give u that . these guys CANT fix a race!!!!!  head shake  head shake
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silent one
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« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2011, 10:11:15 AM »

Really, Ira. REALLY?? Just because YOU say so.... There is a saying IRA, if you fail to learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it. Chicago harness racing is a FING JOKE. Scandals everywhere, drivers in booths before the races, trainers arrested for drugs, drivers suspended for drug use, and/or lack of effort, and you want people to believe that it is NOT possible that two drivers, who have had trouble in their past, set up a race, because YOU said so?Huh REALLY?Huh

         Sincerely, Silent Mike
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thewhip
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« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2011, 10:24:26 AM »

  This race was fixed for a couple of reasons. First, Third easy hotspur who looked sensational on paper opened up at 12-1 LOL! An indication that she was going to get stiffed and Odds on riesling opens up as the big chalk. The race was set up for Odds on riesling because of the phoney early betting and the way two shady drivers went at it to the half.

Are you serious or what?
At 7 minutes to post there was $546 bucks in the win pool, Odds On was 2-1.
5 minutes, $782 bucks, Odds On went up to 5-2
at 3 minutes, Odds On was 9/5 with $1063 in the win pool.
Without trying to get to technical with you here, that's hardly enough money to buy groceries for the week if the fix was in with all that EARLY money! lol
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Buggyboy
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« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2011, 11:05:52 AM »

Are you serious or what?
At 7 minutes to post there was $546 bucks in the win pool, Odds On was 2-1.
5 minutes, $782 bucks, Odds On went up to 5-2
at 3 minutes, Odds On was 9/5 with $1063 in the win pool.
Without trying to get to technical with you here, that's hardly enough money to buy groceries for the week if the fix was in with all that EARLY money! lol


  If this guy figured this race was fixed by glancing at the tote board with those kinda numbers.......umm, need I say more?
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IRA
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« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2011, 11:29:58 AM »

yes, silent mike. i do expect u to beleave me the handle at maywood is so bad that they couldnt get gas money out of those pools !!   i know , magee stinks , i know. its ok !!       screwy
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 11:32:39 AM by IRA » Report to moderator   Logged
3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2011, 02:04:11 PM »

The thing I miss most with RCR being closed for 3 years of live racing is the crying.

I cant wait to see people throw their tickets down and proclaim every race fixed.

Funniest ever was someone actually thought James Groff was running blocker for someone.
LOLOLOL

If you know the track you know he is incapable. But they believed it. Every lost bet is a fix or a cheat and it makes me laugh.
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hungry
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2011, 04:41:23 PM »

I dont know if this race was fixed or not,  but what i do know is that its a smarter way to fix a race (if fixing races is your thing) to duel and appear to 'try really hard' to win. Lets face it, the judges can't fine or suspend or say a driver 'stiffed' for getting in a duel. You can't fine a driver for 'stupidity'. (although you should be able to).

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Sea Biscuit
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2011, 06:17:37 PM »

Funniest thread of the week.
LOL!!!!!!!

You can say that again Mr Burton.

I am sure all the drivers involved had a meeting behind the barns before the race to decide who will win.









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diamond
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« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2011, 07:17:28 PM »

 Are you kidding me Burton and Sea Biscuit LOL!!!! I have been in racing for over 30 years and drivers have always done what I have told them. One night I had a horse coming off a 3 month layoff and people bet him down to 3-5* thinking he was going to leave like he always does and beat a bunch of rats because I had him dropping way down in class. What the dumb sucker betters didn't know is, I told the driver to duck and just race him on the rail and not push him because I wanted to bring him back slowly. I KNEW HE WAS GOING TO LOSE THAT NIGHT! I know another trainer in the race bet the hell out of his horse, because he knew the situation with my horse and what I planned on doing with him. If the public knew my instructions to the driver or how I wanted to bring the horse back off the layoff, they wouldn't have bet a frickin dime on my horse. He finished 4th by the way. Tuff luck for the show betters. Many drivers and trainers over the years have let me in on good, crooked, information. Jeff Tilden, Ed Holdeman, and addicted gambler Dan Knox let me in on some great information over the years. Danny played around with horses he drove. He ended up committing suicide leaving small children behind and owing bookies over $40,000 dollars in unpaid debt. So Burton and Sea Biscuit BS everyone on here on how honest horse racing is!!!! Drivers betting with bookies are going to be so honest on the track when they owe the books thousands LOL!!!! These are facts not fiction. Ron Marsh, Jeff Tilden, Rodney Mills, all involved in race fixing schemes. Not make believe. Jeff bet on my horses when he was driving in the same race. Jeff love to bet against himself. He just wanted to make money. I could go on and on with lovely stories to no end. Oh, and how about are honest vets. The ones I have always used did whatever I needed. They always say you didn't get it from me LOL! The investigation they had last year when they were finding syringes on top of all the sheds in the barns was a real laugher. All those syringes went right into somebody's horse at some point. If people want to hear more crooked stories I will surely be obliged. Everyone get real!
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Sea Biscuit
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2011, 07:58:30 PM »

Are you kidding me Burton and Sea Biscuit LOL!!!! I have been in racing for over 30 years and drivers have always done what I have told them. One night I had a horse coming off a 3 month layoff and people bet him down to 3-5* thinking he was going to leave like he always does and beat a bunch of rats because I had him dropping way down in class. What the dumb sucker betters didn't know is, I told the driver to duck and just race him on the rail and not push him because I wanted to bring him back slowly. I KNEW HE WAS GOING TO LOSE THAT NIGHT! I know another trainer in the race bet the hell out of his horse, because he knew the situation with my horse and what I planned on doing with him. If the public knew my instructions to the driver or how I wanted to bring the horse back off the layoff, they wouldn't have bet a frickin dime on my horse. He finished 4th by the way. Tuff luck for the show betters. Many drivers and trainers over the years have let me in on good, crooked, information. Jeff Tilden, Ed Holdeman, and addicted gambler Dan Knox let me in on some great information over the years. Danny played around with horses he drove. He ended up committing suicide leaving small children behind and owing bookies over $40,000 dollars in unpaid debt. So Burton and Sea Biscuit BS everyone on here on how honest horse racing is!!!! Drivers betting with bookies are going to be so honest on the track when they owe the books thousands LOL!!!! These are facts not fiction. Ron Marsh, Jeff Tilden, Rodney Mills, all involved in race fixing schemes. Not make believe. Jeff bet on my horses when he was driving in the same race. Jeff love to bet against himself. He just wanted to make money. I could go on and on with lovely stories to no end. Oh, and how about are honest vets. The ones I have always used did whatever I needed. They always say you didn't get it from me LOL! The investigation they had last year when they were finding syringes on top of all the sheds in the barns was a real laugher. All those syringes went right into somebody's horse at some point. If people want to hear more crooked stories I will surely be obliged. Everyone get real!

In a game where money changes hands, there will always be crooks and shady characters lurking around.

What you say about not pushing your horse after a layoff and a qualifier is nothing new. We all know that. Its a rare day when I will bet a horse off a qualifier coming after a layoff just for that reason alone.

About those few drivers you are talking about who owe money to the bookies maybe you are right or maybe not. Just that I don't see very many drivers showing up on track with broken legs and arms. HaHa.

What really we are talking about is fixing a race. In order to fix a race you gotta involve people in your scheme. Maybe at least 4 or 5 drivers if not all ten and that is not very easy to do. Even if you do succeed in doing so you gotta make sure all four or five drivers get the same dividends or the one getting less is most likely to start chirping like a bird and spill the beans. Just ask Kevin Wallis. He might be able to give you an update on this matter. What a waste of good talent.

I play the WEG circuit and racing up here is pretty much on the up and up as it is at most tracks I am sure. Purses are good and drivers make good money. There are races which raises my eyebrows, but I am happy to report they are few and far between. Maybe one or two in a thousand.

Diamond one thing is for sure. You'll never be a poster boy for harness racing.

 

 

  
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 08:06:43 PM by Sea Biscuit » Report to moderator   Logged
diamond
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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2011, 09:17:53 PM »

 Understand this, I have never done anything illegal or would. However, when your in this business you meet a lot of people. I've gotten a lot of information from many people that ended up panning out to what was said. Just look at all of the suspensions for people doing illegal things. Personally, I can't stand people that outright cheat. If I could clean up this sport I would, but there just too many cheating. Everyone that knew Dan Knox knew he had a severe gambling problem. You had to be an idiot not to know it. People that claim Ron Marsh, Jeff Tilden, Rodney Mills, Brian Pelling, and so many others were innocent are full of crap. They have plenty of evidence. Uncashed tickets in the Marsh case when he drove Turn me loose kid and Mike's Cadet. Illegal betting patterns in Las Vegas when a bunch of individuals where hitting every book in town in the Mills and Tilden race betting trifectas and perfectas but not using Mills horse at 4-5* Biz and Tilden's horse from the one hole at 3-1 second choice. Who do you think told these people in Vegas to leave these horses out of the gimmicks. The drivers! It only takes two drivers with key horses to fix a race. John Roberts may be clean of illegal drugs, but he still drinks. Rod Allums allegations that he is on video betting in a race that he was in driving in and not using himself in his bets. Rick Dane had to be separated from Todd Warren one night at balmoral because Mike Oosting and Warren were scheming in a race Dane was driving in. They are Michigan buddies and very good friends. Mike Oosting is a woman beater and a milk shaker taken to court several times for dui's, domestic abuse, and suspended for milk shaking time and time again. Richard Smolin stealing a bike from Dave Magee. Talk about these people as poster boys. I treat the animals with respect, and never have been suspended. Never have I been involved in scheming. Just being in this business you see and hear so much that to say it's on the up and with some people would be ridiculous. Wherever gambling is involved you will have crooked cheaters. As far as vets I only do what is legal. They are the ones that will actually go beyond misconduct if need be.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2011, 09:44:51 PM »

Understand this, I have never done anything illegal or would..

I got the picture now.You have never borken a speed limit drove while intoxicated or cheated on your taxes.
In  an earlier post you say people provided you with " good crooked information" and yet I hear nothing from you how you advanced that info to authorities to help fix the cheating.
Did you bet anyone of those horses involved in the good information and cash a ticket ?
Did you tell anyone else close to you of the info so they can cash a ticket ?

Are we to believe you or a friend never cashed a ticket based on the good crookeed info you received ?
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Sea Biscuit
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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2011, 09:49:27 PM »

Understand this, I have never done anything illegal or would. However, when your in this business you meet a lot of people. I've gotten a lot of information from many people that ended up panning out to what was said. Just look at all of the suspensions for people doing illegal things. Personally, I can't stand people that outright cheat. If I could clean up this sport I would, but there just too many cheating. Everyone that knew Dan Knox knew he had a severe gambling problem. You had to be an idiot not to know it. People that claim Ron Marsh, Jeff Tilden, Rodney Mills, Brian Pelling, and so many others were innocent are full of crap. They have plenty of evidence. Uncashed tickets in the Marsh case when he drove Turn me loose kid and Mike's Cadet. Illegal betting patterns in Las Vegas when a bunch of individuals where hitting every book in town in the Mills and Tilden race betting trifectas and perfectas but not using Mills horse at 4-5* Biz and Tilden's horse from the one hole at 3-1 second choice. Who do you think told these people in Vegas to leave these horses out of the gimmicks. The drivers! It only takes two drivers with key horses to fix a race. John Roberts may be clean of illegal drugs, but he still drinks. Rod Allums allegations that he is on video betting in a race that he was in driving in and not using himself in his bets. Rick Dane had to be separated from Todd Warren one night at balmoral because Mike Oosting and Warren were scheming in a race Dane was driving in. They are Michigan buddies and very good friends. Mike Oosting is a woman beater and a milk shaker taken to court several times for dui's, domestic abuse, and suspended for milk shaking time and time again. Richard Smolin stealing a bike from Dave Magee. Talk about these people as poster boys. I treat the animals with respect, and never have been suspended. Never have I been involved in scheming. Just being in this business you see and hear so much that to say it's on the up and with some people would be ridiculous. Wherever gambling is involved you will have crooked cheaters. As far as vets I only do what is legal. They are the ones that will actually go beyond misconduct if need be.

Same old story. You talk of only the bad apples in the game. Why not talk about the good apples and all those races which are run fair and true to form.

How about talking about those races for a change it will be very refreshing to say the least.

 
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2011, 09:52:28 PM »

Same old story. You talk of only the bad apples in the game. Why not talk about the good apples and all those races which are run fair and true to form.

How about talking about those races for a change it will be very refreshing to say the least.

SB

Sad to see it is reflective of the society we live in.The bad always interests people more.
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Sea Biscuit
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« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2011, 10:01:29 PM »

I got the picture now.You have never borken a speed limit drove while intoxicated or cheated on your taxes.
In  an earlier post you say people provided you with " good crooked information" and yet I hear nothing from you how you advanced that info to authorities to help fix the cheating.
Did you bet anyone of those horses involved in the good information and cash a ticket ?
Did you tell anyone else close to you of the info so they can cash a ticket ?

Are we to believe you or a friend never cashed a ticket based on the good crookeed info you received ?


I must say you ask the toughest of questions.

We shall see how Mr Clean responds to those questions.
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IRA
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« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2011, 10:51:31 PM »

first of all even dave magee knows bobby wouldnt steal his bike !! only morons  think thats true . 2nd, the storys that thre diamond guy is telling are  true. but that was 15 years ago!! do u know rod allums ??  hes not like that hes harmless. there is not enough mony being bet right now for race fixing at maywood
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« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2011, 10:52:00 PM »

Ira, would you EVER admit that a race was fixed? After all, you and Langley ARE pretty tight. The see no evil hear no evil thing.
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IRA
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« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2011, 11:02:26 PM »

sure, back in the 80s a guy was gonna kill me and another guy  cause we wouldnt go dead !! but carmen a. told them to leave me alone!! there were fixed races all the time !! but not right now!! there is no crew !!  rod allums c,mon!! get real!!
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IRA
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« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2011, 11:05:46 PM »

another thing me and langly have never been tight!!  he hated me for years , we started talking when i got old. we are far from tight---but just -ok.
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« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2011, 11:41:50 PM »

Why are you in such denial? Is it like when one person tells a lie long and often enough they think people will believe them? It's bs and you and I both know it. No crew? Uh huh and I have some land that you can buy..............I think you got that from Langley. Just keep denying things and they will eventually go away. And Ira, there are quite a few people who believe that you and Langley were AND are tight. WAY more than don't believe it. I wonder why that is. screwy
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IRA
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« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2011, 12:24:59 AM »

like i care what u think, most people are gonna  think the worst, and start the lies. u dont know what u r talking about . and ive got no more to say. it would be nice to know who im talking to, oh thats right im not telling the truth , but im not hiding!! nyah
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« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2011, 12:38:30 AM »

It's called being a mouthpiece. Just spewing out misinformation. What lies? That there ARE fixed races at Balmoral? Who could POSSIBLY deny that? That "certain" people are cashing on these "strange" races with bad payoffs?         The truth shall set you free.  thumbs up
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IRA
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« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2011, 01:14:28 AM »

warren, i forgot thats u . never mind . --------ok . the races are fixed.--- bowing      bowing  the end.
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diamond
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« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2011, 07:46:16 AM »

 Again, are you kidding me? Niatross, do you know the difference between a speeding ticket and race fixing? I'll explain, one is a minor misdemeanor that can be expunged off your record by going to a 5 hour class. The other is a federal felony that will not be expunged and includes possible jail time. Oosting gets dui after dui and does not do time. So putting a speeding ticket in the class of race fixing shows your line of thinking. You know I don't agree with everything that Ira says, but it is interesting to note that a lot of the people that disagree with him on every issue shows some people can't face the truths. At least he has the courage to admit that some have cheated in this sport. Some of you think that there has never been any race fixing schemes at all, like it is not possible. Hey, at least I'm not going out getting drunk like Angus Lake and Pat Curtain were and running down young girls on the backstretch and killing one of them. Do you think people like this and others I have mentioned do all of these bad things and just become holy than though once they set foot on the racetrack. I saw Doug Hamilton so drunk so many times at hawthorne when we were racing there than I can count. I mean real drunk! head shake
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« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2011, 09:11:12 AM »

I KNOW 4 A FACT THIS WAS NOT A FIXED RACE !!  rod was told to leave they thought roberts would let him go !! i didnt. i know rod bet the horse and so did barnard . u guys need to stop talking nonsense about fixed races on here.  roberts was sending rod a mess. when ive got the rail dont leave !!!  they both looked like fools , ill give u that . these guys CANT fix a race!!!!!  head shake  head shake

Don't confuse the know-it-alls with the truth!
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« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2011, 09:24:04 AM »

Don't confuse the know-it-alls with the truth!

Keep believing the mouthpiece............ Why don't you ask him just EXACTLY HOW he "KNOW 4 A FACT THIS WAS NOT A FIXED RACE" ?  Is he privy to EVERY fixed race? Does EVERY driver tell him EVERY time they are in a "fixed" race ? Is he involved in other "fixed" races? When drivers drive VERY strangely and horrible payoffs are involved, people are inclined to believe foul play is the cause. If the IRB did something on their own about the "strange" drives, maybe people would have some confidence in the races. BUT they do NOT do anything on their own. It takes Las Vegas to get them to do anything.
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« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2011, 09:40:16 AM »

You don't need to get to all 10 drivers in a race.
Usually just 3 or 4.
And they need to be decent drivers.
Toss the 30-1 shots and you are down to maybe 6 horses..
You just need a fave or 2nd choice to go dead and know about it.
If you know how to bet, and these guys do, you will cash...
Jackie Mo used to get his comission check on Thursdays at Freehold, walk out of the office, and 2 of his bookies would always be in the parking lot waiting for him. Like clockwork.
He didn't wind up in Canada by choice. He was politely asked to leave, and not because of his great integrity..
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2011, 10:03:16 AM »

Diamond,
Apparently my line of thinking went right over your head.You were the one who posted that you NEVER DID ANYTHING ILLEGAL AND NEVER WOULD.
I do not need to you to explain the difference between a misdemeanor and a felony.
However, I asked you 3 questions in my previous post and you chose to not answer even  one of them.They were regarding the correct crooked info you received with fixed races.If you don;t want to answer them on here or via a pm we are left to our own opinions..
There is a person on these forums who likes to claims he never has or never would lie.Yet he recently admitted to lying.
Now do you need to consult with a lawyer before you answer the questions I posted earlier on this thread  ?
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« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2011, 12:47:31 PM »

Keep believing the mouthpiece............ Why don't you ask him just EXACTLY HOW he "KNOW 4 A FACT THIS WAS NOT A FIXED RACE" ?  Is he privy to EVERY fixed race? Does EVERY driver tell him EVERY time they are in a "fixed" race ? Is he involved in other "fixed" races? When drivers drive VERY strangely and horrible payoffs are involved, people are inclined to believe foul play is the cause. If the IRB did something on their own about the "strange" drives, maybe people would have some confidence in the races. BUT they do NOT do anything on their own. It takes Las Vegas to get them to do anything.

I don't have to believe the "mouthpiece".  I know many of the principals involved in this so called fixed race.
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« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2011, 06:52:58 PM »

Just an idea...
Don't you think if drivers were going to fix a race they would do it in a way that wasn't obvious...
I see everyones point of view but at some point yall need to stop beating a dead dog. I do think some races are manipulated but I guess I don't know where to draw the line at fixed.
All in all I think the races will get better with better purses. Hopefully the horses will get taken care of better, kept up with vet work, shod, and fed right, and maybe then the horses can perform more consistently.
Also with the increase in purse money hopefully it attracts some more patrons and gets Illinois Harness Racing on the map again!
 
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« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2011, 08:52:37 PM »

Are you kidding me Burton and Sea Biscuit LOL!!!! I have been in racing for over 30 years and drivers have always done what I have told them. One night I had a horse coming off a 3 month layoff and people bet him down to 3-5* thinking he was going to leave like he always does and beat a bunch of rats because I had him dropping way down in class. What the dumb sucker betters didn't know is, I told the driver to duck and just race him on the rail and not push him because I wanted to bring him back slowly. I KNEW HE WAS GOING TO LOSE THAT NIGHT! I know another trainer in the race bet the hell out of his horse, because he knew the situation with my horse and what I planned on doing with him. If the public knew my instructions to the driver or how I wanted to bring the horse back off the layoff, they wouldn't have bet a frickin dime on my horse. He finished 4th by the way. Tuff luck for the show betters. Many drivers and trainers over the years have let me in on good, crooked, information. Jeff Tilden, Ed Holdeman, and addicted gambler Dan Knox let me in on some great information over the years. Danny played around with horses he drove. He ended up committing suicide leaving small children behind and owing bookies over $40,000 dollars in unpaid debt. So Burton and Sea Biscuit BS everyone on here on how honest horse racing is!!!! Drivers betting with bookies are going to be so honest on the track when they owe the books thousands LOL!!!! These are facts not fiction. Ron Marsh, Jeff Tilden, Rodney Mills, all involved in race fixing schemes. Not make believe. Jeff bet on my horses when he was driving in the same race. Jeff love to bet against himself. He just wanted to make money. I could go on and on with lovely stories to no end. Oh, and how about are honest vets. The ones I have always used did whatever I needed. They always say you didn't get it from me LOL! The investigation they had last year when they were finding syringes on top of all the sheds in the barns was a real laugher. All those syringes went right into somebody's horse at some point. If people want to hear more crooked stories I will surely be obliged. Everyone get real!
If you sent a 3-5 shot postward after giving the driver explicit instructions NOT to try to win, then you are as big a cheat and just as guilty of defrauding the "dumb sucker bettors" (your words) as any so-called "race fixing" driver. YOU WITHHELD FROM EVERYONE BUT YOUR DRIVER THE FACT THAT YOU WERE GOING "DEAD." DON'T YOU THINK THE BETTORS WOULD LIKE TO HAVE KNOWN THAT? THEY GOT SCREWED, AND YOU'RE THE ***hole RESPONSIBLE FOR IT!

Then, in another post, you claim "Understand this. I have never done anything illegal or would." Congratulations, pal. You just stamped yourself as the biggest bullshit artist posting here on BTW!

So, you bet on the wrong horse in a race at Maywood you claim was fixed? I'm glad, because if anyone deserves to get screwed, you do!

How does it feel to be a "dumb sucker bettor???"
    
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 09:20:29 PM by vegas jay » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2011, 09:16:31 AM »

 But that's just it VJ I am in the racing game. I'm not interested in the betting game for horse racing. My concern is my horses well being and future. Not to blow them out after a layoff. If people want to hammer a horse off a qualifier and just plain bet, that's really not my concern. This horse was brought back slowly not to have the same injury happen twice. I watch the majority of the races from the paddock or kitchen. People that know me know that I am never at a betting machine. I have watched thousands of races over the years and know the difference of a trying drive, a stupid drive, and a fake crooked drive. Ron Marsh purposely didn't pull Mike's Cadet the night he was a big chalk and I was there that night. It was a Saturday night at maywood. The horse had so much pace it was unreal. Marsh was choking him down almost and didn't pull and got shuffled to last flying in the stretch. The drive could have been said to be legitiment with people saying that he just got locked in. Well, immediately after the race Vegas and stewards were involved investigating big time bets that did not include Marsh with a live horse on paper and on the track in which the tickets went uncashed. Thousands went uncashed! That's just one example. Sea Biscuit just about everyone has a speeding ticket on their record. However, when you fill out for a racing license they are only interested in felony crimes which I have never been involved in. As far as people giving me information or shooting their mouth off I could care less. Giving me good information is one thing if it turned out to be true in which most cases it did. However, where have I said that I cashed in on those races personally? Sure I have gotten a speeding ticket many years ago, so I guess you proved your point that I'm a liar. Congrats Niatross your the einstein of BTW chat board.  beer
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« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2011, 09:25:35 AM »

 Another thing Vegas "gambler" Jay, when the public is willing to pay all my vet bills for me I will get on a blowhorn and announce my horse's every ailment to them. I'll even give the day and time to the second when they emptied out!
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« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2011, 09:33:23 AM »



      No money in the pools? Well thats just funny because these are the same people that go everyday. Why then???  If there was no money in the pools then people like Ira wouldn't be there everyday trying to steal it now would they? They will steal every crumb they can get there hands on and who in the hell made Ira the Chicagoland mouthpiece he doesn't even have a trainers license now does he?
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« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2011, 09:52:10 AM »

 It don't take much to cash in. If you hit a $4 tri or super you have a nice little chunk of change. Greed is where cheaters get caught! So to me there don't have to be a lot of money in the pool. Tilden and Mills got caught because the tri paid so low! Big longshots with the favorites out and it paid jack nothing! Las Vegas casinos called the stewards before the race even started. I will also agree that Las Vegas shouldn't be the ones always catching these cheaters. Our stewards should do something. One night Tony Morgan got dragged in a bike and Dan Knox went inside the pylon on a horse called Antisapating. Two stewards cut out early and the third left after the last race finished. The inquiry was posted by somebody and they had to call the last steward that left via cell phone to get a ruling on what happend. It was all over the paddock that a steward was nowhere to be found.
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« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2011, 12:08:02 PM »

Diamond,

You are not the Einstein of BTW.I was the one who  brought up the Speeding ticket issue not Sea Biscuit.No one was asking about  any felonies.
You are too busy lying or not answering questions to prove otherwise.
Again it was you who said he NEVER DID ANYTHING ILLEGAL OR WOULD DO.
You may not be the biggest bullshitter / liar on this forum as someone else said
but you are at least 1A.
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« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2011, 01:00:21 PM »

 I stand corrected and it has been corrected. However, if any of you are on *** read the Bobby Smolin thread that C3po posted about Smolin the 1-5* he claims Smolin stiffed. The way he drove that horse and how he drove the other horses that night. Disgruntled gambler or keen eye on what is happening? You be the judge. He wanted everyone to call the IRB and the stewards.
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« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2011, 01:15:09 PM »

For them idiots to think I stiffed perfect timing ... The horse has lameness issues I held the horse together the entire mile isn't my fault he didn't win either blame the state vet or the horse for being raced every other day ... I tried to win ... Shit happens!!
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« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2011, 01:43:31 PM »

if the people on horsedong are so sharp why didnt they see the horse score down like shit . the horse shows a breaking all the time.  they like most of u just want to start shit. u dont say bobbys the hottest driver at bal. in his last 70 starts hes batting over 30 % winners. or that he ranks 4th overall even tho he drives longshots no instead steve penhaker, warren hanson want to call the irb and say hes a stiff!! when the irb starts doing what these sites want then to . they can just close the doors !! every race is fixed , bobby smolin steals wheels , and him and the dopey allums kid took down the twin-towers. why dont u guys stop ur bullshit already.  bobby knows the world is watching his every move !! hes not gonna stiff any *** horses ***hole !!!!!
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« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2011, 09:02:41 PM »

if the people on horsedong are so sharp why didnt they see the horse score down like shit . the horse shows a breaking all the time.  they like most of u just want to start shit. u dont say bobbys the hottest driver at bal. in his last 70 starts hes batting over 30 % winners. or that he ranks 4th overall even tho he drives longshots no instead steve penhaker, warren hanson want to call the irb and say hes a stiff!! when the irb starts doing what these sites want then to . they can just close the doors !! every race is fixed , bobby smolin steals wheels , and him and the dopey allums kid took down the twin-towers. why dont u guys stop ur bullshit already.  bobby knows the world is watching his every move !! hes not gonna stiff any *** horses ***hole !!!!!

Ira, why don't you stop with the LIES. I do NOT call the IRB and have NOT talked to them in OVER 20 years. They are a joke. They do NOTHING BUT COLLECT PAYCHECKS. Why would I want to talk to them? You can say all you want about Bobbys statistics but when Brennan,Parker,Morrill, Filion, Wojico, etc got caught fixing races in the east, they WERE the leading drivers. So PLEASE stop with the numbers stuff. Let's get into something else-JUST EXACTLY HOW MUCH FREE STUFF HAVE YOU RECEIVED FROM BALMORAL PARK ? So it would follow that you would be defending the races there. After all, the track and the IRB do NOT want ANY bad publicity sent to the Governor. EVERYONE KNOWS you were/are tight with Johnston/Langley. In FACT, some think you are on the payroll. People have heard that for 25 years. I don't know AND don't care. I would like to know why the drivers need to stop by your booth before the races and talk. It definitely does NOT look good.
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« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2011, 09:07:08 PM »

For them idiots to think I stiffed perfect timing ... The horse has lameness issues I held the horse together the entire mile isn't my fault he didn't win either blame the state vet or the horse for being raced every other day ... I tried to win ... Shit happens!!

If the horse was lame then it was your RESPONSIBILITY to report it to the State Vet BEFORE the race. Did you ? So you're admitting that horse was LAME? There is a rule AGAINST entering and racing LAME horses. And as far as being raced every other day, WHY did you accept the drive? Certainly you owe it to your child to NOT drive horses that you KNOW are lame. Why take the risk ? Is this horse on the stewards list for lameness? Did you call the stewards and tell them the horse was lame?
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« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2011, 09:24:14 PM »

warren, this is not fun anymore. the horse scored bad ,put in steps not lame !! i still lost my money on him cause he looked like a cinch lots of sore horses stiill win, why would i be on their payroll . they dont wanna pay the people they got now !! what can i do 4 them but bet. and thats why i get a free program , a place to sit , and some of the greatest food ever served in the world. the good news is u can get the same thing that all 70 people who have these cards get.  u just have to bet. and then sometimes win. somtimes i get mad at the races to. but i dont call the racing bd. i dont think the race is fixed. i know sometimes a guy races the horse easy and i get screwed so i bet the horse next time. plus some of these guys just stink !! think what u want do what ever.  im not hurting anyone and my son is very aware that everybody hates him and just waits to try to get him. he wants to win every race. he loves it. im done with no win subject. good luck to u all !! im done 4 awhile.   beer
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« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2011, 09:33:19 PM »

If the horse was lame then it was your RESPONSIBILITY to report it to the State Vet BEFORE the race. Did you ? So you're admitting that horse was LAME? There is a rule AGAINST entering and racing LAME horses. And as far as being raced every other day, WHY did you accept the drive? Certainly you owe it to your child to NOT drive horses that you KNOW are lame. Why take the risk ? Is this horse on the stewards list for lameness? Did you call the stewards and tell them the horse was lame?

Lame is a very broad term. Most all horses are lame to some degree.
Most all of us are a little stiff(lame) in the morning. Does that mean we should stay in bed till we feel better?

The driver scores the horse down and he is on a line a little. No big deal few of them go 100% straight.
Behind the gate he is alright
 First turn he is on the line again.
Farther he goes the more the driver has to hold him together.
By the end of the mile he is crooked as hell, and the driver is happy as hell to get back safe.

Next horse he drives scores down on a line just like the last one.
This one gets behind the gate straightens out and wins for fun, and that is the way it goes.

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I am just an old "Hoss" trainer, that has been raced hard and put away wet. 
As my Friend from Maine(Ora Stratton) says "There are horse trainers, and then there are real "Hoss" trainers.
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« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2011, 10:22:40 PM »

Art Major would score down like a cripple every week... I think he did alright
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« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2011, 10:28:02 PM »

Lame is a very broad term. Most all horses are lame to some degree.
Most all of us are a little stiff(lame) in the morning. Does that mean we should stay in bed till we feel better?

The driver scores the horse down and he is on a line a little. No big deal few of them go 100% straight.
Behind the gate he is alright
 First turn he is on the line again.
Farther he goes the more the driver has to hold him together.
By the end of the mile he is crooked as hell, and the driver is happy as hell to get back safe.

Next horse he drives scores down on a line just like the last one.
This one gets behind the gate straightens out and wins for fun, and that is the way it goes.



There IS a difference between sore and LAME. He used the term lame. Was he lame last week? Will he be lame next week? Hmmmmmmm
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« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2011, 10:34:41 PM »

he wants to win every race. he loves it.  beer

Did he want to win the last race that night when he ran down Carpenter with a horse that had no chance? Hmm, set the race up nice for closers. Who were the closers? Wilfong and Jared Finn. They ran 1-2. I know, Ira, you will have an answer for that too. And, of course, nobody had it. Right? $25, $24 $4.80 and a $50 horse and there are TWO winning tickets. Nice score.
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« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2011, 10:41:55 PM »

Your a *** ... And a big one at that talk all that garbage you want ... I'll be there wed. Morning and night you pick a time we can talk in person or maybe I'll show you the floating chips this horse has ... Talking about perfecting timing... And the last race I was looking for a hole... Didn't get 1 ... Carp didn't want to let me go ... Owell .. Horse shows leaving ... So run your mouth like you always do ..I've never once not explained something to you ... Shit happens that's racing ... And for your side of the game... That's gambling!
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« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2011, 11:04:59 PM »

i see over on horsedong penhacker ,warren and there little hate crew are at it again, penhacker has like 6 names on there he talks to himself half the time , what a nut !! have fun overthere u morons  people know ur full of shit , u wont b happy till the old lady gets fired. just keep running your crazy mouth steve !! i take a bath every month!!      screwy      screwy     dakuras-u phoney i know about u two  . pay me the the money u owe me lice!!
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« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2011, 12:11:37 AM »

Skinny jeans has had the one hole twice in the last three starts and not been on the lead.  

 Diamond, you can come on here and act like you are in the know but when it comes down to it , you dont know squat. Your insuations of a fixed race in this case are laughable to anyone who has a clue about the business and better yet, has a clue about reading outside of what you read in a program.

  If you did know anything about Skinny Jeans, you would certainly know that she is one of the fastest leaving mares on the grounds and just because she doesn't make the lead from the rail when its better she sits a 2 hole trip because of who shes in with, doesn't justify the stupidity of your comments that the race was set up. She can leave with the car, just watch her 40 previous races in Chicago and maybe you will see what anyone with half a brain who follows horses sees.

 Surely the 40 previous races she has raced in Chicago were just tuneups so they could fix a race and have her parked to the half in 54 and get beat 50 lengths. God, you really are a moron !! No need to continue, I am done  screwy

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« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2011, 05:14:57 AM »

There IS a difference between sore and LAME. He used the term lame. Was he lame last week? Will he be lame next week? Hmmmmmmm
The last time I was in a Doctor's office there was a # chart to describe pain. One through ten as to how severe the pain was.
 Just think of that chart, and replace the word pain with lame.
 #1 lame is a little sore. 
#10 lame  is to sore to race.
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I am just an old "Hoss" trainer, that has been raced hard and put away wet. 
As my Friend from Maine(Ora Stratton) says "There are horse trainers, and then there are real "Hoss" trainers.
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« Reply #57 on: August 24, 2011, 01:38:54 PM »

 Incredible Shadow you know nothing about racing. If Skinny Jeans is one of the fastest mares in racing then she should have been able to drop in the two hole if she likes it so much like you claim. She raced like a pig the last two times she had the one hole. Where did she finish? Read the program. Or better yet, why didn't she make the lead last time if she is so damn fast? She is not racing this week and a race was written for her and she could have gotten in because it didn't fill. Maybe now she is damn lame you f'n idiot, moron, degenerate gambler. Most everyone on here knows who you are spectator so maybe say hi to me next time I race. Just come to the paddock fence at maywood. nyah
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« Reply #58 on: August 24, 2011, 02:11:47 PM »

Allums and Roberts are just two drivers with limited skills who hooked up in  a speed battle . These two couldn't fix a broken watch together much less a race together . I really think Roberts tries with every horse
Classic filly a  friggin classic...and oh so true.  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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« Reply #59 on: August 24, 2011, 03:33:57 PM »

Why don't you race fixing accusers just post this.

I lost $2 on the 4th race.
IT WAS FIXED!!!!!!!!!!


That should cover it.
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« Reply #60 on: August 24, 2011, 06:57:17 PM »

There IS a difference between sore and LAME. He used the term lame. Was he lame last week? Will he be lame next week? Hmmmmmmm
if a horse is not sound, then what is he? ive heard sore, swimmy, crampy, pinchy, ouchy,stiff, tight,crippled, and a few more i cant think of right now. they all may be easier on the ears but they all mean the same thing. not sound means lame.
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« Reply #61 on: August 24, 2011, 11:33:23 PM »

Incredible Shadow you know nothing about racing. If Skinny Jeans is one of the fastest mares in racing then she should have been able to drop in the two hole if she likes it so much like you claim. She raced like a pig the last two times she had the one hole. Where did she finish? Read the program. Or better yet, why didn't she make the lead last time if she is so damn fast? She is not racing this week and a race was written for her and she could have gotten in because it didn't fill. Maybe now she is damn lame you f'n idiot, moron, degenerate gambler. Most everyone on here knows who you are spectator so maybe say hi to me next time I race. Just come to the paddock fence at maywood. nyah

 First off I am from Canada and have never even been to Chicago, so your very misinformed in your thinking of me coming to see you in a Maywood paddock and thats a lucky thing for you.

 Secondly, after reading your even more stupid comments regarding Skinny Jeans, I figure you are a disgruntled owner or trainer that has been made to look like a fool by the connections of this mare on another horse.

 Furthermore, your pedigree really shows when you rip a good honest mare because she was parked to a half in 54 and backed up, all the while forgetting that has raced tough, week in and week out her last 40 starts while earning $45,000 on the Chicago circuit, since she was bought privately from Canada last year.

If you dont believe me, have a look yourself
http://www.canamharness.com

In closing , you seriously need help.
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« Reply #62 on: August 24, 2011, 11:43:14 PM »

Accusing two guys that don't have two nickels to rub together of fixing races! Now that's funny.
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« Reply #63 on: August 25, 2011, 02:00:28 AM »

ive heard sore, swimmy, crampy, pinchy, ouchy,stiff, tight,crippled

Heard of the rest but swimmy and pinchy are a first.
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