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Author Topic: Tony Morgan wins five!!!!!!!!!  (Read 3050 times)
sam
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« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2011, 07:54:28 AM »

I'm confused now.
I thought macdaddi was Opie?


and you are mr ed
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pacindel
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« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2011, 08:18:04 AM »

no doubt an excellent horseman...

Yes, no one doubting his experience and knowledge in harness racing, but how unscruppleless does one have to be to get ahead.  If I'm going to pick heros in this sport, I'm going to pick people with integrity off the track as well as on the track!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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burton
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« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2011, 08:22:44 AM »

Yes, no one doubting his experience and knowledge in harness racing, but how unscruppleless does one have to be to get ahead.  If I'm going to pick heros in this sport, I'm going to pick people with integrity off the track as well as on the track!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You seem pretty solid in your opinion and appear to be in Delaware.
Has ehe been fined, suspended etc; since he's been there?
I do recall he left 5-6 years ago.
He's won about 3000 races since then.
500 a year average.
What's the problem?
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pacindel
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« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2011, 06:09:24 PM »

Read the thread! It's not problem, cause I don't use him.
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JuiceJunkies
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« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2011, 07:23:35 PM »

You seem pretty solid in your opinion and appear to be in Delaware.
Has ehe been fined, suspended etc; since he's been there?
I do recall he left 5-6 years ago.
He's won about 3000 races since then.
500 a year average.
What's the problem?

LOL
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burton
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« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2011, 07:50:18 PM »

Yes, no one doubting his experience and knowledge in harness racing, but how unscruppleless does one have to be to get ahead.  If I'm going to pick heros in this sport, I'm going to pick people with integrity off the track as well as on the track!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So what did he do that lacked integity off the track.
I mentioned his record on the track and you had no comment.
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Dleestable
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« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2011, 11:16:25 PM »

Well I guess everyone has an opinion.  I know a few jackas*** that have been put in the Hall Of Fame, so I guess it is a matter of opinion isn't it.
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pacindel
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« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2011, 07:51:49 AM »

Well, if you want me go into detail off the track for one instance, I just did in the beginning of this thread.  I don't think anybody wants me to repeat myself.

 A few years ago, when Tony had horses with Tim Crissman and they both thought the horseman were to stupid to figure it out, Tony was up on other trainers horses (the horses were good and Tony liked them) he would advise them to lower there horses in cheaper claimers, then Tony would have Crissman claim them for him.  Word got around and trainers quit using Tony to drive, thats why his drives fell off.  Well, yes, word got out on his relationship with Crissman, so he formed a relationship with Victor Keeler, but now he starts getting his horses shipped in from outside states, using Victor Keeler at his front man.  My question is, "Why be so sneaky about all your activities".  If your not doing anything wrong, you don't have to be sneaky. 

Now, again I say, Tony is very knowledge, he should be, coming from a family that was so involved with horse racing,  from vet work to training ability.  He definitely knows how to drive a horse.  But, he also knows how to set a race up.  Well, I'll not go into that, cause that involves the golden boy.  When the golden boy, moved on, Tony didn't have the other drivers to help him, so, again Tony would send the horses out of the gate, in the attempt to get close to front for the win.  Boy, does he ever get the very best little bit out of a horse, he can do it like no one else, what a reinsman, but, the horse pays for it.   Now, do you have a horse for the next race.  Nope, cause he so sore, it takes awhile for him to get over it.  Some of us, don't have the capital to just discard a horse and get another one when this happens, so the trainers don't use him. 

Didn't ever occur to you why Tony doesn't get Circuit drives, cause it's the why he drives the horses and his demeanor.  Tony is Tony.  Tony, when you get to know him, will talk when he's in the mood.  People in Delaware aren't that way, they are very hospitable and like to talk to people that they are involved with. Tony gets off their horses and doesn't say nothing or just grumbles.  Well, thats not gonna get you far here.  Needless to say, in the time he's been driving in Delaware, he's done very well, but eventually the word gets around and people just don't use him anymore.  If he had come in here (Delaware) like the golden boy and very hospitable and hubble, than events would be probably different. 

When you test peoples intelligence, you are going to offend most of them.  That why Ron Pierce is well thought of and does so well with the horseman here, because he always walks up to the horseman in the paddock and talks about any subject, whether horses or hunting.  Doesn't matter, whether he got messed up in the race, Ron will tell you, " I so sorry, it was my fault". Well, goes a long way, when a driver gets off and tells you the real deal, not making excuses. Ron doesn't test peoples intelligence, just talks to them like there friends. 

Is that what you wanted to hear?  Its about being an professional in your sport, whether on the track or off the track.   
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burton
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« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2011, 08:13:34 AM »

Pacindel,

Thanks for the response.
A lot of it is opinion and that is everyone's right.
Every one follows what some call typical business practices in their own way.
I've been on the backstretch myself and find more rumours and jealousy than you would at a laundromat.
That said, being on the top Morgan would be the target of much storytelling.
It's easier to say he claimed a certain way our from under people than to say he was a better horseman and trainer.
He excels at sore horses.
He excels at driving.
I can see that they typical driver/trainer would go to "he doesn't claim fairly route after their horse improved tremendously under Morgan.
As for his getting less drives, he drove over 4000 races when winning 900-1000 races a season.
He's in his mid 50's now and isn't trying to win the drivers title.
So he's only down to 3400 drivres a season. Still, that's quite a lot for anyone.
He drove a lot of top horse in Illinois but ususally lost out to Dave Magee (a better driver in my opinion).
So no, he didn't drive tons of top horse for top trainers but he did have his fair share drivng for McIntosh, Harmer just t name a few.

I'll agree to disagree and thank you for your response.
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pacindel
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« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2011, 01:47:52 PM »

Yep, everyone has their opinion.  You know how he did it out there and I know how he did here.  I will tell you just like have said before, one of the best in the business, now its time to clean it up!!!!!!!!!  Get rid of the liquid training and you'll see who the real horseman are!
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Dleestable
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« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2011, 10:10:02 PM »

Pierce and Morgan comparison?  Oh Lord I wish I had the time.  LOLOLOOLOLOL
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Goodfella
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« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2011, 10:29:03 PM »

pacindel you're right on the money with Morgan,although a bit sugar coated the guy is all business and all for Tony. Nobody better in the history of the game when you combine evaluating horse flesh,driving,training(under numerous names) gambling and last but not least cheating. Whatever happened to Bret Shultz or Mike Arnold two of my favorite Morgan beards. I don't hate him I envy him in a lot of ways all except his chrones disease. horse shoe
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It's not too late to change the road you're on.
pacindel
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« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2011, 07:35:02 AM »

pacindel you're right on the money with Morgan,although a bit sugar coated the guy is all business and all for Tony. Nobody better in the history of the game when you combine evaluating horse flesh,driving,training(under numerous names) gambling and last but not least cheating. Whatever happened to Bret Shultz or Mike Arnold two of my favorite Morgan beards. I don't hate him I envy him in a lot of ways all except his chrones disease. horse shoe

Yep, Probably one of the best in the business.  But, lack personality skills, not a people person.  Doesn't go far when you want people to give you drives or get a fan base.   Tonys for Tony.  But, maybe he doesn't feel good with his Crohns disease.  He has it rough.  I rather have my health than be in his shoes! 
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2011, 08:32:13 AM »

Yep, everyone has their opinion.  You know how he did it out there and I know how he did here.  I will tell you just like have said before, one of the best in the business, now its time to clean it up!!!!!!!!!  Get rid of the liquid training and you'll see who the real horseman are!

If you know all about how they're doing it, and know who is doing it, and know it's liquid training, why aren't you turning in the hard evidence to the racing commission? You're an investigator, man! YOU take the steps to clean it up, just like you said I should do! Walk the walk.
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pacindel
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« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2011, 05:54:06 PM »

Dude, what the hell do you think I have been doing for the past year!  Do think I have made fans this year, as if I give a crap!  I've been working harder at it, than the commish and I don't get a pay check, I have invested my own money in getting drug results!  Don't feed me any of your sanctimonious bullshit.  I've been walkin the walk, hell, I've been running that run.  The question, is how many of YOU are out there helping me.
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burton
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« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2011, 06:01:53 PM »

Dude, what the hell do you think I have been doing for the past year!  Do think I have made fans this year, as if I give a crap!  I've been working harder at it, than the commish and I don't get a pay check, I have invested my own money in getting drug results!  Don't feed me any of your sanctimonious bullshit.  I've been walkin the walk, hell, I've been running that run.  The question, is how many of YOU are out there helping me.
What do you need a Briosky?
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pacindel
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« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2011, 09:45:28 PM »

No.    I just need some help!!!!!!!
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2011, 12:03:48 AM »

Dude, what the hell do you think I have been doing for the past year!  Do think I have made fans this year, as if I give a crap!  I've been working harder at it, than the commish and I don't get a pay check, I have invested my own money in getting drug results!  Don't feed me any of your sanctimonious bullshit.  I've been walkin the walk, hell, I've been running that run.  The question, is how many of YOU are out there helping me.

No, the question is, if you are specifically accusing people of using "liquid training", in this case Tony Morgan, where's your proof of that?
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pacindel
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« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2011, 09:51:18 AM »

Terry, you're repetitive.  If I were prosecuting my own cases and getting paid for this kinda of rebuttals, I would elaborate.  I'm saving my breath to die with.  I do not need to explain anything to you, my proof is sitting in New Boltons lab, with more on its way. 

You just want to humor yourself with jibber-jabber.  You sound like my 6 year old daughter, talks about nothing, just to hear herself talk about nothing, makes her feel important.   

Move on to next legitimate question! Don't waste my time with jibber-jabber. 
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flukemaster
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« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2011, 09:54:31 AM »

Well, if you want me go into detail off the track for one instance, I just did in the beginning of this thread.  I don't think anybody wants me to repeat myself.

 A few years ago, when Tony had horses with Tim Crissman and they both thought the horseman were to stupid to figure it out, Tony was up on other trainers horses (the horses were good and Tony liked them) he would advise them to lower there horses in cheaper claimers, then Tony would have Crissman claim them for him.  Word got around and trainers quit using Tony to drive, thats why his drives fell off.  Well, yes, word got out on his relationship with Crissman, so he formed a relationship with Victor Keeler, but now he starts getting his horses shipped in from outside states, using Victor Keeler at his front man.  My question is, "Why be so sneaky about all your activities".  If your not doing anything wrong, you don't have to be sneaky. 

Now, again I say, Tony is very knowledge, he should be, coming from a family that was so involved with horse racing,  from vet work to training ability.  He definitely knows how to drive a horse.  But, he also knows how to set a race up.  Well, I'll not go into that, cause that involves the golden boy.  When the golden boy, moved on, Tony didn't have the other drivers to help him, so, again Tony would send the horses out of the gate, in the attempt to get close to front for the win.  Boy, does he ever get the very best little bit out of a horse, he can do it like no one else, what a reinsman, but, the horse pays for it.   Now, do you have a horse for the next race.  Nope, cause he so sore, it takes awhile for him to get over it.  Some of us, don't have the capital to just discard a horse and get another one when this happens, so the trainers don't use him. 

Didn't ever occur to you why Tony doesn't get Circuit drives, cause it's the why he drives the horses and his demeanor.  Tony is Tony.  Tony, when you get to know him, will talk when he's in the mood.  People in Delaware aren't that way, they are very hospitable and like to talk to people that they are involved with. Tony gets off their horses and doesn't say nothing or just grumbles.  Well, thats not gonna get you far here.  Needless to say, in the time he's been driving in Delaware, he's done very well, but eventually the word gets around and people just don't use him anymore.  If he had come in here (Delaware) like the golden boy and very hospitable and hubble, than events would be probably different. 

When you test peoples intelligence, you are going to offend most of them.  That why Ron Pierce is well thought of and does so well with the horseman here, because he always walks up to the horseman in the paddock and talks about any subject, whether horses or hunting.  Doesn't matter, whether he got messed up in the race, Ron will tell you, " I so sorry, it was my fault". Well, goes a long way, when a driver gets off and tells you the real deal, not making excuses. Ron doesn't test peoples intelligence, just talks to them like there friends. 

Is that what you wanted to hear?  Its about being an professional in your sport, whether on the track or off the track.   

Like I said in a prior post he only tries for Keeler and Crissman
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burton
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« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2011, 10:38:37 AM »

Like I said in a prior post he only tries for Keeler and Crissman
I doubt that.
Winning 13,000 races and now at a clip of 300-400/yr, that doesn't add up.
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Joe B
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« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2011, 11:08:28 AM »

I don't think it's any big secret to those who follow the game close - Tony's used a variety of guys as trainers....in Chicago - Grevengoed, Schulz, Dennis Henert, Arnold, etc.  So to defend him against that kind of activity in Delaware is probably pointless....but I'm not sure he needs defending either - is it illegal for him to basically run a stable using whatever trainer he wants to use ?  Where does the line get drawn as to what level of activity he's entitled to to run an operation using whatever trainer he wishes ?

Is the list of positives and suspensions long for the guys he's used as trainers??  Maybe I'm wrong but my recollection is no....Joe B
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flukemaster
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« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2011, 11:25:45 AM »

I doubt that.
Winning 13,000 races and now at a clip of 300-400/yr, that doesn't add up.

Are you really this dumb or do you have to get a degree in it? We are all talking about Delaware and the only 2 trainers/beards he tries for. Please take your daughters to Disney World and tell them you are goofy. laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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burton
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« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2011, 11:28:34 AM »

Are you really this dumb or do you have to get a degree in it? We are all talking about Delaware and the only 2 trainers/beards he tries for. Please take your daughters to Disney World and tell them you are goofy. laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
Once again someone disagrees with you and you insult them.
Please leave my children out of this.
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2011, 01:35:59 PM »

Once again someone disagrees with you and you insult them.
Please leave my children out of this.

Tony Morgan 2009 Delaware.......485 Wins......Total Wins For Crissman (162) and Keeler (24) .....186 wins.....Thats 299 Wins He Got (For other trainers) without ever trying.......Lots of drivers would love to win 300 Races in a year without trying

Tony Morgan 2010 Delaware......338 Wins......Total Wins for Crissman (131)  and Keeler (26)......157 wins......Thats another 181 Wins He Got (For other trainers) without ever trying

This is assuming he won every race Crissman won which he didnt.....He did win every race for Keeler because he is obligated to take his horse

His overall win percentage was 15%......While Crissman and Keeler averaged 19% wins......SO that is well within range

Guy has won 823 races in Delaware over the last 2 years......Approximately 300 for Crissman/Keeler.......523 Wins (for other trainers) without trying over 2 years is pretty solid......Imagine what he could do if he ever tried for anyone else
« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 01:48:21 PM by HarnessFanDE » Report to moderator   Logged

SHOWTIME!!!
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