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Author Topic: is dutrow all done?  (Read 3297 times)
HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2011, 07:08:10 AM »

In other words, he's a cocky sonofabitch -- that's his MAIN sin.


He's a cheater.....thats his MAIN sin......The fact that he's an ***hole doesn't help his situation
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Round Table
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« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2011, 07:10:02 AM »

So you're saying a discussion of the rules and this case of Rick Dutrow Jr. have nothing to do with one another???  You're losing it quickly.


I could say you're losing it quickly.   It's not about ME, OK?


Correct.  We know the rules.   The penalty is central here, and whats good for racing.

If you don't want to debate the penalty, then you're done.
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They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
Round Table
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« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2011, 07:14:04 AM »

He's a cheater.....thats his MAIN sin......The fact that he's an ***hole doesn't help his situation

Does he cheat?   I wouldn't say he is an ***hole.  I'd say he is a bad barn manager. 

He is very good at diagnosing a horses problems early. His horses are fit and ready to race.

Does it  warrant a Lifetime suspension?    No
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OTB
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« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2011, 07:16:19 AM »




If you don't want to debate the penalty, then you're done.

You don't get to make those rules, I'm sorry you embarrassed yourself. 
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Round Table
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« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2011, 07:29:25 AM »

You don't get to make those rules, I'm sorry you embarrassed yourself.  

Yeh,   you already hoped to make us believe this is about the philosophy of rules.  But it's not.   It's about Richard Dutrow jr. his possibility for a lifetime suspension and its effect on racing.  And it's not about ME.  If you don't want to debate the penalty, then you're done.  Do you want me to complain to the moderator ?

Is it about whether Richatrd Dutrow is an ***hole, or not.  If it is then, I don't think he's an ***hole.  I think he is a bad barn manager.

Does it warrant a lifetime suspension?  

Does he cheat?  Has any expert any VET, come forward to say POSITIVELY his training is performance enhancing?  What about others who's methods are certainly performance enhancing?

Let's move forward.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2011, 07:34:16 AM »

And like Terry and anyone else who has been around the game for awhile, you know darn well that they WONT go after anyone else.

I do believe if successful with Dutrow they WILL move to get others out of the game.
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OTB
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« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2011, 07:36:32 AM »

Yeh,   you already hoped to make us believe this is about the philosophy of rules.  But it's not.   It's about Richard Dutrow jr. his possibility for a lifetime suspension and its effect on racing.  And it's not about ME.  If you don't want to debate the penalty, then you're done.  Do you want me to complain to the moderator ?

Is it about whether Richatrd Dutrow is an ***hole, or not.  If it is then, I don't think he's an ***hole.  I think he is a bad barn manager.

Does it warrant a lifetime suspension?  

Does he cheat?  Has any expert any VET, come forward to say POSITIVELY his training is performance enhancing?  What about others who's methods are certainly performance enhancing?

Let's move forward.

You can't help yourself making dumb statements.  You've said twice he's a bad barn manager yet the guy wins at a better than 20% clip.  You've also said any discussion of the rules has nothing to do with Dutrow...still waiting for clarification on that.

You continue to attribute statements to me that you have no proof of.  I've said consistently that I can't judge what the penalty is but have stated that if you break the rules you must be penalized.
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Round Table
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« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2011, 07:47:08 AM »

You can't help yourself making dumb statements.  You've said twice he's a bad barn manager yet the guy wins at a better than 20% clip.  You've also said any discussion of the rules has nothing to do with Dutrow...still waiting for clarification on that.

You continue to attribute statements to me that you have no proof of.  I've said consistently that I can't judge what the penalty is but have stated that if you break the rules you must be penalized.

Uh, in light of the facts what's "dumb" about saying he's a bad barn manager.  Does he cheat?
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OTB
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« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2011, 07:48:11 AM »

Uh, in light of the facts what's "dumb" about saying he's a bad barn manager.  Does he cheat?


According to you he doesn't.  The fact is he wins at a better than 20% clip and has been for years and still has his training license.
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Round Table
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« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2011, 07:56:09 AM »

According to you he doesn't.  The fact is he wins at a better than 20% clip and has been for years and still has his training license.

Does he      CHEAT?   
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OTB
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« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2011, 07:57:23 AM »

Does he      CHEAT?   

According you he doesn't.
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Round Table
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« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2011, 07:58:15 AM »

According you he doesn't.

It's not about ME.   

Does he    CHEAT?
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OTB
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« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2011, 08:04:01 AM »

It's not about ME.   

Does he    CHEAT?

It's not about you, but you made the statement that he doesn't cheat.  You can't actually be this dumb can you?  I guess you can.  You've said a trainer winning at a better than 20% clip is a bad barn manager.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2011, 08:06:18 AM »

He's a cheater.....thats his MAIN sin......The fact that he's an ***hole doesn't help his situation

Let me do a logical expansion of your comment above:

* There are plenty of cheaters around, and none of THEM are under "Special" investigation.

* Therefore, Dutrow is under Special Investigation because he is an ***hole.

Thank you. That is my point exactly. If this were about CHEATING, 20 guys would be under Special Investigation...but there is only ONE: Dutrow.

He embarrassed some bluebloods in racing, and goddamit, he is going to PAY! That's all this is.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2011, 08:11:30 AM »

You've said twice he's a bad barn manager yet the guy wins at a better than 20% clip.  

I think the poster means that a good barn manager would have tied up all the loose ends that led to somewhat trivial medication violations (by US standards) piling up on his record. You can get the training and the entry part right, leading to winning, and still not be on top of all that you should be.
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OTB
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« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2011, 08:17:43 AM »

I think the poster means that a good barn manager would have tied up all the loose ends that led to somewhat trivial medication violations (by US standards) piling up on his record. You can get the training and the entry part right, leading to winning, and still not be on top of all that you should be.

You can Marcus but in most cases guys who are winning at high rates have everything covered. 

BTW I was at Belmont Sunday and the horse you chose as best bet looks like she could be a real nice turf filly, she looked quite impressive.

To me the rules are in place and all must play by them no matter what sport.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2011, 08:52:13 AM »

Chances of this happening are slim and none, and if you have as much "real" knowledge of horse racing as you would like us all to believe, you already pretty well know that this Grand Tribunal is entirely specific to Dutrow -- a simple "One and Done".

No, I don't know that at all, and truly believe what I said, that it's an example, a test case, and others will likely follow if they succeed in finally, actually stripping a guy of his license.

NYT story with an account of some of his transgressions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/sports/05racing.html
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 08:57:06 AM by honest & balanced terry » Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #42 on: June 21, 2011, 09:12:18 AM »

A life time ban for non-performance enhancing violations is wrong, and bad for racing.

A lifetime ban for having a long record that says he either does not care about the rules or is mentally incapable of living up to the responsibilities of a horse trainer is indeed appropriate. He's had numerous opportunities and chances to turn things around, and he just keeps on getting busted.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2011, 09:42:29 AM »

No, I don't know that at all, and truly believe what I said, that it's an example, a test case, and others will likely follow if they succeed in finally, actually stripping a guy of his license.

Based on what?

Horse Racing's long history of "Following Through", and "Doing The Right Thing"?

Terry, really: it might seem like I'm being a jag about this, but I will (for the moment) actually defer to your obvious knowledge and love of the game, and ask a sincere question: what is different this time around?

...because I don't see it. Doesn't mean I'm right, though. Enlighten me.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2011, 10:01:16 AM »

Based on what?

Horse Racing's long history of "Following Through", and "Doing The Right Thing"?

Based on it seems to have finally registered in some thick skulls that if they don't clean up their own game then the U.S. Congress is going to do it for them.

Quote
Terry, really: it might seem like I'm being a jag about this, but I will (for the moment) actually defer to your obvious knowledge and love of the game, and ask a sincere question: what is different this time around?

...because I don't see it. Doesn't mean I'm right, though. Enlighten me.

See above.
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Round Table
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« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2011, 10:15:44 AM »

Based on it seems to have finally registered in some thick skulls that if they don't clean up their own game then the U.S. Congress is going to do it for them.

See above.

Well, we all had our say, and Dutrow is facing uber lifetime sanctioning for what ??  Being a notoriously lousy barn manager ?  Or, keeping horses fit, diagnosing problems early, and having horses ready to race ?


Why, what is happening about Congress?   Is there an investigation into barn management?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 10:26:30 AM by 7474505B » Report to moderator   Logged

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Horse Voice
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« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2011, 10:33:37 AM »

Based on it seems to have finally registered in some thick skulls that if they don't clean up their own game then the U.S. Congress is going to do it for them.

Excuse me...did you really just write the words "U.S. Congress" and "do" in the same sentence?

THAT is the threat that has finally made Horse Racing snap to attention? The U.S. Congress?? Quite possibly the most ineffectual body of rulemakers on the planet -- THIS is who is going to clean up Horse Racing?

(Comparatively speaking, this makes Illinois racing a 1/9 shot to get the 3% casino money AND revenue from the 10th casino license AND slots at the tracks!!)

So this is what it has come to? People hate Dutrow SO much that they will SAY anything, and BELIEVE anything -- so long as Dutrow gets kicked out?

The sheer blinding power of biased rationalization is astonishing, to say the least. I guess I had no idea how much everyone hates the guy, that they have totally suspended logic in favor of supporting a decision made solely with emotion.

It's little more than mob mentality. *** it, just get out the guillotine.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2011, 10:46:39 AM »

Excuse me...did you really just write the words "U.S. Congress" and "do" in the same sentence?

THAT is the threat that has finally made Horse Racing snap to attention? The U.S. Congress??

Yes. They are running deathly scared of Federal intervention.

Quote
So this is what it has come to? People hate Dutrow SO much that they will SAY anything, and BELIEVE anything -- so long as Dutrow gets kicked out?

Where on earth did you come up with this, from anything I have written?

Quote
The sheer blinding power of biased rationalization is astonishing, to say the least. I guess I had no idea how much everyone hates the guy, that they have totally suspended logic in favor of supporting a decision made solely with emotion.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Quote
It's little more than mob mentality. *** it, just get out the guillotine.

That's certainly your opinion.
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Ed
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« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2011, 11:16:24 AM »

Ya know, it wasn't only Dutrow's horses that were over medicated.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2011, 11:19:31 AM »

Yes. They are running deathly scared of Federal intervention.

And you believe that -- based on the U.S. Congress' track record of following through and doing the right thing -- horse racing SHOULD be afraid of Federal intervention? 

Where on earth did you come up with this, from anything I have written?

See above.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Of course you don't. How could you? It fits with the "blinded by biased rationalization" thing I mentioned earlier.
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