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Author Topic: is dutrow all done?  (Read 3098 times)
swoopdaddy
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« on: June 17, 2011, 12:50:41 PM »

i heard today after two days of hearings that richard dutrow will be looking for another line of work. kentucky already wont give him a license. New York wont  announce it till september but from what i hear, he is all done.
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SandyLoam
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 12:57:41 PM »

While he does/did things many of them do, few industries tolerate a blabbermouth. Do it, but don't talk about it.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 01:58:59 PM »

i heard today after two days of hearings that richard dutrow will be looking for another line of work. kentucky already wont give him a license. New York wont  announce it till september but from what i hear, he is all done.

Who did you hear this from, please?

My friend's cousin still has horses with Dutrow in NY, and he hasn't heard *anything* about what NY will do -- he's been right every step of the way so far as to what's happening with Dutrow, mainly because he goes right to Dutrow's barn for updates.

PM me if you want.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2011, 02:02:29 PM »

While he does/did things many of them do, few industries tolerate a blabbermouth. Do it, but don't talk about it.

Bingo. THIS is his primary sin, and it's why they have singled him out.

You can have violations up the ass, just don't brag about gettting away with it.

(And don't appeal everything -- that REALLY seems to piss off the racing officials.)
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OTB
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2011, 02:21:10 PM »

Watch for the horses running under the name Justin Sallustro.

Dutrow is a bad guy no matter how you slice it.
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Alpha Mare
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OYE VEY!!!!



« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2011, 02:48:26 PM »

Watch for the horses running under the name Justin Sallustro.

Dutrow is a bad guy no matter how you slice it.

Groom or hotwalker? lol
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Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
Cablacinasian
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« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 08:12:26 PM »

Watch for the horses running under the name Justin Sallustro.

Dutrow is a bad guy no matter how you slice it.

Old news.  He was racing at Kee under this guy's name.
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OTB
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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 08:31:45 PM »

Old news.  He was racing at Kee under this guy's name.

And that is old news as Sallustro was the name being used last year when Dutrow got in trouble.  Just informing those who may not be familiar with the NYRA dealings.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2011, 09:22:09 PM »

Dutrow is a bad guy no matter how you slice it.

OK, that's the general consensus -- I'll concede that.

Is he the ONLY one?

No? Where are the other tribunals, then? Who else is being denied licensing in Kentucky?

THAT's what stinks about this little witch hunt.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2011, 09:57:55 PM »

OK, that's the general consensus -- I'll concede that.

Is he the ONLY one?

No? Where are the other tribunals, then? Who else is being denied licensing in Kentucky?

THAT's what stinks about this little witch hunt.

They found syringes in his barn this time, HV. He has a long history of offenses before that. Time to put the boot to him.

Personally I think he is supposed to be an example and wakeup call to other recidivists, and would not be surprised to see this same action taken against others in the future given this precedent.
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OTB
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2011, 10:00:09 PM »

OK, that's the general consensus -- I'll concede that.

Is he the ONLY one?

No? Where are the other tribunals, then? Who else is being denied licensing in Kentucky?

THAT's what stinks about this little witch hunt.

I don't think it's a witch hunt, he is the one who violated the rules and therefore must stand and face justice.

The incidents going back years ago involving Sandy Goldfarb and Rene Poulin were disgusting.

When he was handing out exactas at the Belmont post draw the year Big Brown ran was plain stupid, he didn't break any rules but his mouth drew more attention to him than normal.

I do agree with you that ANYONE who breaks the rules should be punished.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2011, 11:30:39 PM »

They found syringes in his barn this time, HV. He has a long history of offenses before that. Time to put the boot to him.

Others have been busted with syringes in their barns, and Dutrow's "long history of offenses" are mostly admin and multiple jurisdictional rulings -- stuff like not having foal papers on file, and rulings in one state triggering automatic suspensions in surrounding racing jurisdictions.

I looked all this stuff up once, awhile back. People toss around this "he has 72 offenses!" thing like they know what they are talking about, and it's as bad as having 72 individual occurrences of using elephant juice. It's no such thing. In addition to the boring stuff I've listed above, some of the 72 "rulings" on Dutrow's record are actually simple reinstatements!

Personally I think he is supposed to be an example and wakeup call to other recidivists, and would not be surprised to see this same action taken against others in the future given this precedent.

Chances of this happening are slim and none, and if you have as much "real" knowledge of horse racing as you would like us all to believe, you already pretty well know that this Grand Tribunal is entirely specific to Dutrow -- a simple "One and Done".

Same for anyone else who is insisting that this will happen to any other trainers: you know better. Let's stop with the pretending.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 11:47:51 PM by Horse Voice » Report to moderator   Logged
Horse Voice
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« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2011, 11:56:54 PM »

I don't think it's a witch hunt, he is the one who violated the rules and therefore must stand and face justice.

Of course it's a witch hunt: who else do you see getting this full extraneous review? What, Dutrow is the ONLY one who has violated the rules? You know better. I know you do, because you go right into the REAL issue at hand:

When he was handing out exactas at the Belmont post draw the year Big Brown ran was plain stupid, he didn't break any rules but his mouth drew more attention to him than normal.

In other words, he's a cocky sonofabitch -- that's his MAIN sin.

I do agree with you that ANYONE who breaks the rules should be punished.

And like Terry and anyone else who has been around the game for awhile, you know darn well that they WONT go after anyone else.
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Round Table
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« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2011, 06:26:45 AM »

HV.  Fro  what i read ,  I m on your side.

Dutrow is a lousy barn manager but anyone show us where his violations have been performance enhancing.  

He is very good at diagnosing a horses problems early.  His horses are fit and ready to race.

In the words of another  "Does he cheat ? Yes?
There are blatant cheaters out there much worse than Dutrow."

A life time ban for non-performance enhancing violations is wrong, and bad for racing.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 06:30:13 AM by 7474505B » Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
OTB
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« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2011, 06:38:35 AM »


Dutrow is a lousy barn manager but anyone show us where his violations have been performance enhancing.  



Lousy barn manager??  the guy wins races at a 20% clip.  How bad can he be??
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OTB
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« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2011, 06:42:57 AM »

Of course it's a witch hunt: who else do you see getting this full extraneous review? What, Dutrow is the ONLY one who has violated the rules? You know better. I know you do, because you go right into the REAL issue at hand:

In other words, he's a cocky sonofabitch -- that's his MAIN sin.

And like Terry and anyone else who has been around the game for awhile, you know darn well that they WONT go after anyone else.

I don't consider it a witch hunt as I want all rule breakers subject to whatever penalties they deserve.  Don't put words in my mouth.

He is a cocky SOB and I said that in itself is not a penalty, again stop putting words in my mouth to further your argument.

As far as them going after anyone else that's not my problem nor is it my job, nor can I change that.

I happen to know what went down with the Goldfarb/Poulin stuff and it was blatant cheating and none of the three should be allowed around a racetrack again.  All three of them.  As for any other violations they stand on their own, if he's guilty he gets punished, if he's innocent then leave the man alone.
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OTB
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« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2011, 06:47:07 AM »



show us where his violations have been performance enhancing.  



So just those violations are wrong??  There are rules governing everything in the game but are you saying just breaking the PED rules are bad?

It's pretty simple, break a rule and pay a penalty.  You can't selectively enforce certain rules and not others.
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Round Table
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« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2011, 07:08:34 AM »

Not exactly.  I wrote, "he was a lousy barn manager and asked if anyone could show where his violations were performance enhancing."

Then I quoted someone.  "Does he cheat? Yes? There are blatant cheaters out there much worse than Dutrow."

Then I wrote  "he is very good at diagnosing a horses problems early. His horses are fit and ready to race."

Then I wrote, "a lifetime ban for non performance violations is wrong, and bad for racing."



You said all this already.  Got anything new?  
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 07:15:58 AM by 7474505B » Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2011, 07:09:44 AM »

Dutrow is a lousy barn manager but anyone show us where his violations have been performance enhancing.  

A life time ban for non-performance enhancing violations is wrong, and bad for racing.


     Are you on medication? If not maybe you should consider it......Dutrow has over 30 violations for various medication violations.....A lot of them were overages of legal medications.....If you are administering more of a drug than you are supposed to.....How can that be anything but "performance enhancing"?

     I agree he's an ***hole and that doesnt help......But to act like the guy is innocent is crazy......And also to act like there are millions of trainers with worse records than him is delusional
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SHOWTIME!!!
OTB
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« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2011, 07:20:18 AM »

Not exactly.  I wrote, "he was a lousy barn manager and asked if anyone could show where his violations were performance enhancing."

Then I quoted someone.  "Does he cheat? Yes? There are blatant cheaters out there much worse than Dutrow."

Then I wrote  "he is very good at diagnosing a horses problems early. His horses are fit and ready to race."

Then I wrote, "a lifetime ban for non performance violations is wrong, and bad for racing."



You said all this already.  Got anything new? 

Learn the English language.  Your sentence Dutrow is a lousy barn manager but anyone show us where his violations have been performance enhancing, shows the first part is you saying he is a lousy barn manager and then you go on to make another point.  You made an asinine statement and now you want to run from it.

I love the "got anything new" in trying to cover your foolishness.

As for the other statements I simply asked you if only PED violations were bad.  You failed to comprehend what was written then simply repeated your own statements.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 07:21:53 AM by OTB » Report to moderator   Logged
Round Table
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« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2011, 07:24:10 AM »

    Are you on medication? If not maybe you should consider it......Dutrow has over 30 violations for various medication violations.....A lot of them were overages of legal medications.....If you are administering more of a drug than you are supposed to.....How can that be anything but "performance enhancing"?

     I agree he's an ***hole and that doesnt help......But to act like the guy is innocent is crazy......And also to act like there are millions of trainers with worse records than him is delusional


If you want it to be personal, maybe you're on medication.  It's not about ME, Ok?

Has any expert, any VET, come forward to say his, I don't know, his violations are or ever were POSITIVELY, without a doubt,  performance enhancing?

Look at O'Neill.  He has numerous violations for milk-shaking which is performance enhancing, and nothing has ever been done.

A lifetime, A LIFETIME, ban for non performance violations is very, very wrong, and very bad for racing.

  
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They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
Horse Voice
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« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2011, 07:41:00 AM »

    Are you on medication? If not maybe you should consider it......Dutrow has over 30 violations for various medication violations.....A lot of them were overages of legal medications.....If you are administering more of a drug than you are supposed to.....How can that be anything but "performance enhancing"?

That's simpleton mentality: if one is good and two are better, 4 must be GROOVY.

The fact is, the meds themselves are classified by whether they are thought to be perfomance-enhancing, medically necessary or useful, etc...so, no, not all overages = performance enhancing.

And since you didn't know that, it's clear that you don't understand that the bulk of his medical violations are for trivial, non-performance enhancing overages. Totally trumped up number, stated without any context.

I agree he's an ***hole and that doesnt help......But to act like the guy is innocent is crazy......And also to act like there are millions of trainers with worse records than him is delusional

Nobody is acting like he is innocent -- exaggeration isn't necessary here. Same for your "millons of worse trainers" comment.

There are a few that are just as bad: O'Neill, Mullins, for examples. Where are their Special Tribunals? Are they scheduled? (NO)

THAT is what makes this a WITCH HUNT. Does everybody finally understand this?
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OTB
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« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2011, 07:43:58 AM »

No rules violation is ever trivial.  Rules are in place and must be followed otherwise you have chaos.  I'm not debating any suspension length as that's for others to decide but rules are in place and must be followed.  That's just the way it is.
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Round Table
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« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2011, 07:58:10 AM »

Yeh, you've already said that.  Thanks for your input.  However, we're debating the case of R. Dutrow Jr. and his possibility for a lifetime ban.

Not the philosophy of rules.

Let's move forward.








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They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
OTB
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« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2011, 08:01:46 AM »

Yeh, you've already said that.  Thanks for your input.  However, we're debating the case of R. Dutrow Jr. and his possibility for a lifetime ban.

Not the philosophy of rules.

Let's move forward.










So you're saying a discussion of the rules and this case of Rick Dutrow Jr. have nothing to do with one another???  You're losing it quickly.
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