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Author Topic: Pocono 8 accident  (Read 4291 times)
burton
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« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2011, 12:35:04 PM »

NOW WE'RE REALLY TALKING HARNESS RACING!!!!!!!!!!



IN CAPS TOO!!!!!!!
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fairgame
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« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2011, 02:45:53 PM »

I think I'll rely on BFF's report from watching the replay for accuracy. 

I did get to meet the man for the first time today.  He has the reflexes of a cat.  In one of the slickest moves i ever saw he reached forward out of the saddle to unhook the longline and was so quick neither the horse nor OGM even saw it happen.  I can fully believe he is quick enough to open a gate on the fly.

Now, is there any news on Mike Simmons and how he is doing?
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fairgame
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« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2011, 02:50:06 PM »

Can't wait for OGM's response.  I do know that you were told to turn the two year old out to mature and ignored the professional advice you were given.  So why don't you tell us, where is the horse now?
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juslearning
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« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2011, 07:34:29 PM »

well seems like fairgame is a ogm cronie say i take his post with that in mind.doesnt seem like ogm handle s her business very professionally.john i would question your attorney though.not good advice.
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2011, 07:38:25 AM »

  And another btw... I'm encountering a problem with one of the Paso's who is spoiling for a fight when mounted.  She's been an evil *** from day one, everything has been a fight. She now does all the groundwork, but she's drawn the line at being ridden.  Insists on trying to buck me off.  Hasn't accomplished it yet, but enough is enough.  I'ld be a lot more confident in a jogcart instead of the saddle so I asked Terry for his help and he's coming out to the ranch today.  He's got quite a few old school cowboy tricks up his sleeve.  He says instead of trying to stop the buck, we're going to make her buck until she never wants to do it again. Going to be interesting.

I had a TB that would get all fired up when you took him away from home and would grab the bit and run off with you. I took him to a hunter pace and he immediately blew up and took off, so I said to myself "if you want to run, let's go!".....6 miles and I just kept telling him to go, when he got tired I said "no way we are pulling up now son" and kept after him at the gallop. When we got to the finish he didn't have anymore fight or flight left....we ended up clocking in at the all time fastest mark for that Pace haha....and he never pulled that runaway crap again.

To stick with the actual subject of the thread though, I always thought that there should be some sort of certification for outriders and their mounts - just like a trainer and driver needs to pass a written and skill test, and racehorses need to qualify.
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2011, 12:21:08 PM »

The outrider never moved till at least 5 minutes after the accident.  (So this is wrong)
Ken Kolanich, the paddock judge (this is wrong) got out of the starting can (lol and definitely wrong),
and drove the horse (wrong again) back to the paddock.
This outrider must go !!!!  (Hardly reasonable on this "evidence")

Glad everyone was okay; this thread is getting funnier by the post.

You forgot John and Mike went back to the paddock.....wrong again......The horse wasnt even driven to the paddock.....He was walked by somebody different......wrong again.....Mike went to the hospital......6 points......All wrong.......Guess the vantage point all the way in the clubhouse dining room  (as far away from the accident as you could be in that facility) wasnt as good as advertised......Definitely a personal grudge against the outrider for whatever reason......Guess he didnt expect the outrider doing his job perfectly to be caught on the replay of the race.....If it wasnt I bet he'd still be clinging to the 5 minute story instead of 5 seconds which it actually was......whats 295 seconds among friends
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SHOWTIME!!!
BabyFireFly
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« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2011, 02:46:21 PM »

On a more humorous note, the first thing I thought of when I watched the replay and saw exactly when the outrider took off vs. the field crossing the wire was how it would look if the horses actually did a 5 minute last quarter. It would probably look like the mess caused when they call for a reformation of the field during an amateur race! More circling than a 4-H showmanship class!!! LOL.

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SEH
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« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2011, 03:02:57 PM »

You forgot John and Mike went back to the paddock.....wrong again......The horse wasnt even driven to the paddock.....He was walked by somebody different......wrong again.....Mike went to the hospital......6 points......All wrong.......Guess the vantage point all the way in the clubhouse dining room  (as far away from the accident as you could be in that facility) wasnt as good as advertised......Definitely a personal grudge against the outrider for whatever reason......Guess he didnt expect the outrider doing his job perfectly to be caught on the replay of the race.....If it wasnt I bet he'd still be clinging to the 5 minute story instead of 5 seconds which it actually was......whats 295 seconds among friends
Keep it up and you will be named in the lawsuit his attorney is filing against OGM.  laughing guy laughing guy
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #58 on: May 02, 2011, 03:10:08 PM »

 laughing guy

Come on come on come on everyone! Knock it off!  laughing guy
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SEH
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« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2011, 03:12:26 PM »

laughing guy

Come on come on come on everyone! Knock it off!  laughing guy
Your next.  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2011, 04:12:41 PM »

Your next.  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

God I hope so....life is such a bore without constant back and forth : )
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SEH
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« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2011, 04:14:26 PM »

God I hope so....life is such a bore without constant back and forth : )
  thumbs up beer thumbs up
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fairgame
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« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2011, 05:43:44 PM »

so I said to myself "if you want to run, let's go!".....6 miles and I just kept telling him to go, when he got tired I said "no way we are pulling up now son" and kept after him at the gallop. .

LOL I do that to the little driving pony I use for lessons.  I know he gets up to his antics partially because he gets so bored with just walking and the little bit of jogging I do with my students.  So I take him out and lunge him in the corner of the arena he likes to "spook" from and once he kicks up his heels and takes off I just make him keep going.  It doesn't take him long to decide those easy lessons aren't so bad after all.
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OldGreyMare
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« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2011, 06:39:58 AM »

   John scribbled up some notes on the back of one of those paper things that go under the plates at restaurants.  I don't recall signing that, at any rate I never got any copy of any contract.  AND MY NAME WAS NEVER PUT ON ANY OWNERSHIP PAPERS.
   I was taking money off the training bill for "my share".  The only reason I agreed to taking part ownership was because John kept crying how he couldn't afford a full training bill.  When I advised John to stop with the colt (this was a June colt btw) and turn him out (which we could have turned him out at my place).  John gave the colt to another trainer, who trained him for 3 weeks and told him the same thing, so John sent the horse down to Delaware to yet another trainer.  He had told me a couple times he would give me the $900 back I had taken off the bill.  Time went by with him hemming and hawing about it, and saying oh when the horse races.... Races?!  I had told him the horse wasn't going to make it, turn him out?!  Makes zero sense I ever agreed to wait for that!!
   My friend went to him and told him I needed the money.  John wrote out a check, then emailed me he had stopped payment because I had spoken to the current trainer about the horse and the situation, which I had every right to do.  I informed John the check had already been cashed in the grandstand so he better rethink, but he did it anyway.
   When the Mohegans went after him for the check, he tried every which way to worm out of it and leave me holding the bag.  He ended up paying... not out of some noble reason, because he had to.
   
   I had taken pains to put great manners on that colt knowing his potential as a racehorse was limited.  Horses of his stature and temperament have value as carriage horses and, with age and experience, could have made a great little therapy horse at my sister's place of employment. (Fairgame is not a cronie, she's my sister.. head of the driving program at Equilibrium).  I informed John that people pay decent money for carriage and therapy horses.  $3500 to $5000 for the right horse.  I also gave the heads up to the new trainer, that when they ever decided to quit with him, please let me know, I may be able to find a buyer and a good home.  I contacted the trainer a couple months ago and was told the horse had been Amished 6 months ago, which really surprised me given John's outspoken posts on that subject.  Guess actions speak louder than words.

   Now, shall we discuss the 3 months of free care I gave to the broodmare and Squid?  Three times a day running back and forth to the barn to flush the wound in his abdomen, take temp, and give antibiotics?  Hanging around to supervise his 20 minute turnouts those 3 times a day?  Keeping the stall as clean as possible to prevent any infection or damage to his already damaged lungs from ammonia fumes?  Didn't leave me a whole lot of time for other pursuits... like A PAYING JOB. 
   When I told John I usually get $15 a day for racehorse turn-outs (that's one horse that I don't have to babysit.  Feeding a broodmare and foal out of that I would have netted, what? $5 a day?) he tried to emotionally blackmail me threatening to send Squid someplace else, a place where he could get it done cheaper..and eventually he did.  I secretly checked on them a month later and they both looked like shit. Heartbreaking.
  As a matter of fact... the autumn before John had approached me to board the broodmare.  Again I said $15 a day.  He found a cheaper place... mare foaled outside on a cold rainy night, foal ended up with pneumonia, 10 days at Cornell....really saved the bucks there.
   So out of 3 months of care I got 6 panels of roundpen (which John said I could have) and a pair of eyeglasses he insisted on buying for me when mine broke... and dopey me, I got the cheapest pair they had even though I was not pleased with the style but couldn't afford to buy the ones I really wanted.... because I was broke from spending all my time caring for Squid for free.
  Real big man, John is...

   So now John is going to come after me with a high priced lawyer..... HE was the one who brought it up on the forum, casting aspersions on my character with his posts of being too noble to air "dirty laundry", leaving me two choices:  Remain silent and let all your imaginations run wild.... or defend myself.
   Once again... MY NAME WAS NEVER PUT ON ANY OWNERSHIP PAPERS, even after John was given the information he asked for to get it done.

  You are correct juslearnin, I need to get much more professional in my business dealings.  Time and again I have tried to help people with their horses only to be screwed over.  Written contracts, horses don't leave the barn until payment is rendered... No more trusting people on their word and a handshake. 
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OldGreyMare
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« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2011, 06:46:33 AM »

I think I'll rely on BFF's report from watching the replay for accuracy. 

I did get to meet the man for the first time today.  He has the reflexes of a cat.  In one of the slickest moves i ever saw he reached forward out of the saddle to unhook the longline and was so quick neither the horse nor OGM even saw it happen.  I can fully believe he is quick enough to open a gate on the fly.

Now, is there any news on Mike Simmons and how he is doing?

  Day 2 with the filly, she is a completely changed horse.  Terry rode her for 10 minutes, then I got up.  No more buck, no more ear pinning.  What he did wasn't pretty or for the faint of heart but it sure got the job done.  Old school: hobbles and sacking out... and a bit of rolling around in the dirt by her, not either of us.
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OldGreyMare
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« Reply #65 on: May 03, 2011, 07:32:33 AM »

  Just one more thing juslearning: as far as being unprofessional, the people I've had money issues with can cry all they want on these forums, but in court they have lost.  Maybe the problem is the people I deal with.
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SEH
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« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2011, 07:42:05 AM »

Good Luck OGM in this legal battle with the big bad wolf.
Looks as if john is going to spend more than what he is seeking to prove his point.
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #67 on: May 03, 2011, 07:49:33 AM »

 Day 2 with the filly, she is a completely changed horse.  Terry rode her for 10 minutes, then I got up.  No more buck, no more ear pinning.  What he did wasn't pretty or for the faint of heart but it sure got the job done.  Old school: hobbles and sacking out... and a bit of rolling around in the dirt by her, not either of us.

When you first mentioned Terry was going to help out I was hoping that you got it on video because I had a feeling it was going to include the filly rolling around in the dirt to sweeten her up! For some horses, in the right hands, it really does work. I'm glad that she can now be a contributing member of her stable. Sometimes things have to get a little "dirty" to make for a good outcome.

LOL I do that to the little driving pony I use for lessons.  I know he gets up to his antics partially because he gets so bored with just walking and the little bit of jogging I do with my students.  So I take him out and lunge him in the corner of the arena he likes to "spook" from and once he kicks up his heels and takes off I just make him keep going.  It doesn't take him long to decide those easy lessons aren't so bad after all.

When I was in high school my trainer had a ton of very wealthy North Jersey clients who wanted to foxhunt. He would travel to Ireland once a year to purchase these huge Irish Draft crosses and most of them where rank and unruly, but big, strong and athletic to keep up on the hunt field. I remember having to get up early and gallop them before their owners show'd up for a lesson so they didn't end up in the dirt. My trainer was an ex-steeplechase rider and he would sit on the fence and scream "that's not a gallop! Get him moving!!!" meanwhile I was sweating more than the horse from urging them on. I miss those days of being in shape and having no problem riding 12 a day!

 Just one more thing juslearning: as far as being unprofessional, the people I've had money issues with can cry all they want on these forums, but in court they have lost.  Maybe the problem is the people I deal with.

You have the same problem I do....you look out for the horses instead of worrying about the money. I've got a 10 acre field filled with racehorses that were dumped by owners who just said to get rid of them or simply stopped paying. I could just call the buzzards in to take them all for $500 a head, but instead I just wear the same old clothes and drive the same old truck, live in a small home and hope that my own racehorses can support the field horses. It's our own lifestyle choice, but it would be nice to get lucky once in awhile : )
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Maxim
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« Reply #68 on: May 03, 2011, 08:39:05 AM »

OldGreyMare -- So sorry about the circumstances you described in your long post.
Unfortunately, I've had similar experiences while trying to do what is right for the "horse".
You got entangled in taking care of several horses with what seems to be little appreciation or reimbursement!
And then to have it all drummed up again ... ugg.
The horses (at least) will never forget what you did for them.   thumbs up
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Homestretch
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« Reply #69 on: May 03, 2011, 09:15:17 AM »

OldGreyMare -- So sorry about the circumstances you described in your long post.
Unfortunately, I've had similar experiences while trying to do what is right for the "horse".
You got entangled in taking care of several horses with what seems to be little appreciation or reimbursement!
And then to have it all drummed up again ... ugg.
The horses (at least) will never forget what you did for them.   thumbs up
OGM"S account of the facts are incorrect, so I will post the final court judgement as soon as this matter is resolved.
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SEH
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« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2011, 09:25:22 AM »

OGM"S account of the facts are incorrect, so I will post the final court judgement as soon as this matter is resolved.
to use an old hackneyed phrase, Just the facts, Just the facts
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« Reply #71 on: May 03, 2011, 09:37:58 AM »

OGM"S account of the facts are incorrect, so I will post the final court judgement as soon as this matter is resolved.
You wrote her a check,that's an admission that you owed her money! You can't win John, absent of malice on her part! Let it  RIP
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« Reply #72 on: May 03, 2011, 09:43:52 AM »

You wrote her a check,that's an admission that you owed her money! You can't win John, absent of malice on her part! Let it  RIP
contract dispute, malice not an issue.
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burton
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« Reply #73 on: May 03, 2011, 09:58:24 AM »

One of the most interesting and continually developing threads I have ever read.
different viewpoints.
Heated discussion.
Huge disagreements.
And not much if any name calling profanity etc;
Many vociferious posters here should learn from this thread.
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #74 on: May 03, 2011, 10:55:46 AM »

One of the most interesting and continually developing threads I have ever read.
different viewpoints.
Heated discussion.
Huge disagreements.
And not much if any name calling profanity etc;
Many vociferious posters here should learn from this thread.

No politics / No wagering.
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