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Author Topic: Levy this Saturday  (Read 2582 times)
deadly breeze
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« on: March 22, 2011, 10:27:32 PM »

Their are 6 divisions of the Levy this weekend. Each going for 50k. Cannot their be a better way to run this series. Their are numerous horses that have no chance entered. NONE! And this goes on for how many weeks? 5? 6? If you have one of the better horses (Foiled Again River Shark) you will have to go a lot of trips to get to the final. For what? 300K? Run it 3 weeks. lower the purses to 30k and increase the final to $1,000,000. Then you would see all the big boys there. Even some you do not normally see on a half miler. Also, move it back to May when everyone is racing.
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handsomeharry76
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2011, 10:39:50 PM »

people enter as they hope to draw into a weak division

if a horse doesn't belong he will be exposed and not entered as he can't earn vs. top horses

$5,000 entry fee and guaranteed entry every week

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sternnation
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 10:56:44 PM »

50K 6 WEEKS IN A ROW ...WHERE ELSE? WHAT OTHER TRACK?
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Dolfan
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 11:18:36 PM »

move it back to May when everyone is racing.

M1 is closed in April.  Perfect time to run this series.  You need to be able to recognize when things are done logically instead of complaining about everything.

I'm sure you blame Obama for every little thing too.  Oh, wait - so do I!  Cheesy
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deadly breeze
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2011, 09:57:45 AM »

people enter as they hope to draw into a weak division

if a horse doesn't belong he will be exposed and not entered as he can't earn vs. top horses

$5,000 entry fee and guaranteed entry every week



Was not aware of the entry fee. Must be nice to have 5k to throw away.
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deadly breeze
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2011, 10:03:09 AM »

M1 is closed in April.  Perfect time to run this series.  You need to be able to recognize when things are done logically instead of complaining about everything.

I'm sure you blame Obama for every little thing too.  Oh, wait - so do I!  Cheesy

I am not complaining. This series always seemed a little strange to me. And it is not being run in April because the Meadowlands is closed. That is the time it is run every year.

I am just throwing some ideas out there. I am trying to get some conversation out there that after 3 post does not turn into Sam is a _________ thread.
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flukemaster
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2011, 10:05:35 AM »

Another reason for the demise of Harness racing. How can you card a race like this for a dump like Yonkers which caters to line ups. Should have been moved to a mile track where any horse has a fair chance to win. Still won't improve there handle much unless they figure how to put slot money into the mutual pools. INSANE!!!!
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handsomeharry76
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2011, 02:01:36 PM »

Another reason for the demise of Harness racing. How can you card a race like this for a dump like Yonkers which caters to line ups. Should have been moved to a mile track where any horse has a fair chance to win. Still won't improve there handle much unless they figure how to put slot money into the mutual pools. INSANE!!!!

moved the race?

every track has an option to create a series for top older horses, Yonkers picked this one up from Roosevelt

with the purses they always draw some nice horses

Yonkers stepped up to the plate here
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flukemaster
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2011, 02:09:18 PM »

they stepped up but the race is biased to inside posts and speed. Mile track plays fairer to all. Maybe the USTA could step up to the plate since they doing nothing and try and move the race to a level playing field.
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burton
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2011, 04:05:55 PM »

they stepped up but the race is biased to inside posts and speed. Mile track plays fairer to all. Maybe the USTA could step up to the plate since they doing nothing and try and move the race to a level playing field.
The USTA has nothing to do with setting up a race series, the purses for the races or the track the series is raced at.
Yonkers is not owned by the USTA.
Gonna blame this on Stan Bergstein?
LOL!!!!!!!!!!
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Homestretch
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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2011, 04:47:48 PM »

Was not aware of the entry fee. Must be nice to have 5k to throw away.
When you look at it, it's really not throwing 5K away.
We entered Jetty, and I don't think she will be in the final, but a couple of good checks can earn a great deal of cash.
Three 4th's will get you 12K.
One 2nd will get you 12.5K
So we figured to take a shot and hope to draw the inside on most of the legs.
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burton
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« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2011, 08:01:45 PM »

When you look at it, it's really not throwing 5K away.
We entered Jetty, and I don't think she will be in the final, but a couple of good checks can earn a great deal of cash.
Three 4th's will get you 12K.
One 2nd will get you 12.5K
So we figured to take a shot and hope to draw the inside on most of the legs.
John what was the story when Jetty got a positive last year at Chester and had to return the purse?
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deadly breeze
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« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2011, 08:10:38 PM »

When you look at it, it's really not throwing 5K away.
We entered Jetty, and I don't think she will be in the final, but a couple of good checks can earn a great deal of cash.
Three 4th's will get you 12K.
One 2nd will get you 12.5K
So we figured to take a shot and hope to draw the inside on most of the legs.

Well I wish you the best. And I am being sincere. Your logic makes sense.
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« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2011, 09:05:47 PM »

John what was the story when Jetty got a positive last year at Chester and had to return the purse?
No story, We moved on.
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« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2011, 09:08:46 PM »

Well I wish you the best. And I am being sincere. Your logic makes sense.
Drew the 4 hole in the 10th race !
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burton
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« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2011, 09:15:38 PM »

No story, We moved on.
You "moved on" by retaining the trainer who got the positive which resulted in a forfeit of the purse?
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« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2011, 10:44:28 PM »

You "moved on" by retaining the trainer who got the positive which resulted in a forfeit of the purse?
Yes, we decided to stay with the same trainer.
The only one we have had in 7 years.
Everyone deserves a second chance !!!
Even you, although I don't fully agree.
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« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2011, 12:08:19 AM »

 Your trainor is batting 112 udrs at Meadowlands not much better elsewhere.  Yetty is pretty much an autotoss in these races. 
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Homestretch
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« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2011, 12:59:30 AM »

Your trainor is batting 112 udrs at Meadowlands not much better elsewhere.  Yetty is pretty much an autotoss in these races. 
We shall see !
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burton
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« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2011, 06:03:41 AM »

Yes, we decided to stay with the same trainer.
The only one we have had in 7 years.
Everyone deserves a second chance !!!
Even you, although I don't fully agree.

Very well. That's your decision.
Thanks for answering my question.
I appreciate it.
Good to have real facts and not "stories".
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McElwyns Danger
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« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2011, 07:02:52 AM »

Drolet was the leading trainer in Noo Yawk for much of the mid-70s when he trained Herve's stable (stakes horses and classified stock, as well as claimers); if memory serves, he thereafter trained Dauplaise's barn and then went out on his own, with great success all the way along and no big suspensions that I can recall.  He also happens to be a very good guy, anyone who has him for a trainer is lucky.  Every trainer's going to pick up a positive if he has enough horses and stays in the game long enough, but Drolet's record in the pre-juice days speaks for itself.  
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flukemaster
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« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2011, 07:03:38 AM »

Very well. That's your decision.
Thanks for answering my question.
I appreciate it.
Good to have real facts and not "stories".

You are a pompous ass who knows nothing Burton. John could buy and sell you ten times over and we both forgot more about racing then you will ever know. Please get the last word in again you tool.  bowing bowing bowing
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flukemaster
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« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2011, 07:05:30 AM »

Drolet was the leading trainer in Noo Yawk for much of the mid-70s when he trained Herve's stable (stakes horses and classified stock, as well as claimers); if memory serves, her thereafter trained Dauplaise's barn and then went out on his own, with great success all the way along and no big suspensions that I can recall.  He also happens to be a very good guy, anyione who has him for a trainer is lucky.  Every trainer's going to pick up a positive if he has enough horses and stays in the game long enough, but Drolet's record in the pre-juice days speaks for itself. 

Sorry to say this but Drolet could not buy a win at the Meadowlands until a few years ago when he suddenly started to win again. he also trained for his brother Claude if memory serves me and my friend Linda is married to Claude.
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burton
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« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2011, 07:07:55 AM »

You are a pompous ass who knows nothing Burton. John could buy and sell you ten times over and we both forgot more about racing then you will ever know. Please get the last word in again you tool.  bowing bowing bowing
Better work on your math my friend.
You have no idea.
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McElwyns Danger
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« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2011, 07:10:06 AM »

This is true... his win pct. at the Meadowlands has certainly not been what it was in NY in the old days, when the words "Drolet dropdown" invariably meant money, and often decent prices to boot.  Then again, his stock ain't what it used to be, though he did pretty well with Boiler Bob The QB this past meet, a stone closer who always seems to get stuck behind the inevitable dead outside flow.

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flukemaster
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« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2011, 07:12:27 AM »

I bet Boiler Bob in his first lifetime start in Indiana with Peter Wrenn driving and made a nice score hitting the exacta and super a few times. I think he paid about $16?
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McElwyns Danger
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« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2011, 07:20:45 AM »

I didn't know he started out there... was he a come-from-out-of-the-clouds type back then, too?
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flukemaster
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« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2011, 07:22:34 AM »

His first start he came from third over with Wrenn and won. He scored down like a cripple and then when he warmed up with the camera on looked much better so I took a shot. I think the next start ghe was a big favorite and broke if memory serves me?
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Dolfan
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« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2011, 08:39:31 AM »

they stepped up but the race is biased to inside posts and speed. Mile track plays fairer to all. Maybe the USTA could step up to the plate since they doing nothing and try and move the race to a level playing field.

If it were up to you, there'd be NO racing on 1/2 mile tracks.  Your post is possibly the dumbest ever on BTW.

I'm on record as believing that the demise of the sport began with 1 mile tracks.  You can't see a darn thing & it takes all of the love out of the sport.  I'm talking the passion for the sport not just the gambler, which is all you are looking at.


Drolet was the leading trainer in Noo Yawk for much of the mid-70s when he trained Herve's stable (stakes horses and classified stock, as well as claimers); if memory serves, he thereafter trained Dauplaise's barn and then went out on his own, with great success all the way along and no big suspensions that I can recall.  He also happens to be a very good guy, anyone who has him for a trainer is lucky.  Every trainer's going to pick up a positive if he has enough horses and stays in the game long enough, but Drolet's record in the pre-juice days speaks for itself. 

Drolet was not for Herve but Henri.  Herve's guy was Mike Lavallee.  The leading trainer?  Doubt it with Buddy Reagan around.  And I don't think he ever trained for Norman - Jean Camirand did for many years.

Drolet's % at M1 was horrendous until Lachance pretty much packed up & then Drolet began winning a few.
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« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2011, 08:46:15 AM »

If it were up to you, there'd be NO racing on 1/2 mile tracks.  Your post is possibly the dumbest ever on BTW.

I'm on record as believing that the demise of the sport began with 1 mile tracks.  You can't see a darn thing & it takes all of the love out of the sport.  I'm talking the passion for the sport not just the gambler, which is all you are looking at.


Drolet was not for Herve but Henri.  Herve's guy was Mike Lavallee.  The leading trainer?  Doubt it with Buddy Reagan around.  And I don't think he ever trained for Norman - Jean Camirand did for many years.

Drolet's % at M1 was horrendous until Lachance pretty much packed up & then Drolet began winning a few.


Guess you might have the dumbest reply on BTW. I think 1/2 mile racing is epitomized by NFLD where drivers actually move rather then race Indian file for 1/2 a mile or more like Yonkers and Freehold. Regardless of the driving colony they actually move at NFLD and that is probably the reason their handle is better than any other 1/2 mile track. YONKERS SUCKS AND ALWAYS WILL! Maybe if they started the race before the top of the stretch it would help the outside horses a little more but unless the judges make them drive more honest and do away with the stupid instant finish nothing will change at that rat infested dump. FYI, I am not a gambler but a lover of the dying game as well.

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McElwyns Danger
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« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2011, 08:56:04 AM »

Sorry, Dolfan... Drolet trained for Herve in 74 and 75; Lavallee (and Conrad Pike) came later.  And Drolet was way out ahead of Regan during the '74 meets; in fact, at the spring Yonkers meet that year, Drolet was first, and IIRC Henri was second, both ahead of Regan, who hadn't yet picked up the likes of Gypsy Bret and Razel Time.

But thanks for playing!
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Dolfan
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« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2011, 09:01:44 AM »

Guess you might have the dumbest reply on BTW. I think 1/2 mile racing is epitomized by NFLD where drivers actually move rather then race Indian file for 1/2 a mile or more like Yonkers and Freehold. Regardless of the driving colony they actually move at NFLD and that is probably the reason their handle is better than any other 1/2 mile track. YONKERS SUCKS AND ALWAYS WILL! Maybe if they started the race before the top of the stretch it would help the outside horses a little more but unless the judges make them drive more honest and do away with the stupid instant finish nothing will change at that rat infested dump. FYI, I am not a gambler but a lover of the dying game as well.



I wrote that your post was dumb because you're virtually suggesting that there should be NO stakes races at YR.

And the instant finish is a very good thing.  I have been going to harness tracks for more than 34 years & have NEVER seen a driver's objection upheld & a horse DQ'd.  If you have please let me know when.

YR is a quirky 1/2 miler because the stretch is longer than those of 5/8's tracks.  The racing WAS good & competitive before Pena sent his whole stable & Brennan over.  That's the big change that needs to take place.


Sorry, Dolfan... Drolet trained for Herve in 74 and 75; Lavallee (and Conrad Pike) came later.  And Drolet was way out ahead of Regan during the '74 meets; in fact, at the spring Yonkers meet that year, Drolet was first, and IIRC Henri was second, both ahead of Regan, who hadn't yet picked up the likes of Gypsy Bret and Razel Time.

But thanks for playing!

My 1st time to the track was 1977.  I don't recall Conrad Pike as Lavallee was the trainer when the fire took out the whole stable.

But thanks for being older than me!
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« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2011, 09:07:18 AM »

I said "mid-70s", and you disputed it with what you knew from '77 onward?

??
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flukemaster
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« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2011, 09:09:37 AM »

I wrote that your post was dumb because you're virtually suggesting that there should be NO stakes races at YR.

And the instant finish is a very good thing.  I have been going to harness tracks for more than 34 years & have NEVER seen a driver's objection upheld & a horse DQ'd.  If you have please let me know when.

YR is a quirky 1/2 miler because the stretch is longer than those of 5/8's tracks.  The racing WAS good & competitive before Pena sent his whole stable & Brennan over.  That's the big change that needs to take place.


My 1st time to the track was 1977.  I don't recall Conrad Pike as Lavallee was the trainer when the fire took out the whole stable.

But thanks for being older than me!

Instant finish sucks because a driver has no time to post an objection and the judges don't even review the race so how is that good for the betting public? I have seen races with numerous infractions and nothing is done because of the instant finish. IT STINKS JUST LIKE THE TRACK ITSELF!
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McElwyns Danger
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« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2011, 09:45:15 AM »

No worries, they should go to PRE-instant finish and simply declare the winner at the half-mile pole... what difference would it make?
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flukemaster
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« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2011, 09:54:12 AM »

They should just say there off YOU LOSE!
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momo
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« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2011, 06:48:55 AM »

jetty is a 20 claimer dude. he has the same shot in the levy as brower has of being on the ny times best seller list.
            momo
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« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2011, 11:56:46 AM »



I'm on record as believing that the demise of the sport began with 1 mile tracks.  You can't see a darn thing & it takes all of the love out of the sport.  I'm talking the passion for the sport not just the gambler,


And THAT'S who pays the bills for this business-THE GAMBLER. It's about time the horsemen realize this. It might be too late but that has always been one of the problems. Not too many horsemen have thought just WHERE the purse money comes from. THE GAMBLER. So wouldn't it be OBVIOUS that to make harness racing a success(or more successful) they need to CATER to the GAMBLER? Maybe THAT'S why the casinos have done so well. They CATER to the GAMBLERS.

If you want to see half mile track racing- go to the fairs.
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« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2011, 12:29:36 PM »

jetty is a 20 claimer dude. he has the same shot in the levy as brower has of being on the ny times best seller list.
            momo
Duh !!!!!!!!!!!!!
We hope to get a few decent checks, and maybe come away with some 10 or 15K
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Buggyboy
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« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2011, 01:01:17 PM »

Duh !!!!!!!!!!!!!
We hope to get a few decent checks, and maybe come away with some 10 or 15K

  I like the format just as it is.  It gives guys like you a chance to make a few bucks vs days gone by when the Levy was loaded for bear.  The backbone of the sport IS you little guys, that put on the 15 race card shows the "gamblers" bet on.....best of luck, I will be rootin for ya! 
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« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2011, 01:38:26 PM »

Duh !!!!!!!!!!!!!
We hope to get a few decent checks, and maybe come away with some 10 or 15K


good luck
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2011, 02:00:57 PM »

Well, what does everyone think about the fields themselves...all bickering aside....whose watching who?
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« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2011, 02:13:27 PM »

If you want to see half mile track racing- go to the fairs  beer
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« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2011, 02:49:17 PM »

Well, what does everyone think about the fields themselves...all bickering aside....whose watching who?

1ST DIVISION IS WIDE OPEN IMHO, I THINK BARBER POLE MIGHT SPOIL AT 5 OR 6 TO 1.

2ND DIVISION IS ALL FOILED AGAIN, HE SHOULD JOG FROM THE RAIL, THIS IS MERELY A PUBLIC WORKOUT.

3RD DIVISION AGAIN IS WIDE OPEN, BURKE HAS A COUPLE CONTENDERS AND FORD HAS THE M/L FAVORITE.  I WISH VALENTINO WAS NOT IN POST 8.

4TH DIVISION IS THE WEAKEST BUNCH, NOTHING WILL SURPRISE ME EVEN DUBE FROM THE RAIL IN A SEASONAL DEBUT OR JETTY?Huh

5TH DIVISION JUST LIKE DIVISION 2 'THIS IS WYATT' SHOULD JOG EVEN WITH GOODELL IN THE SULKY.

6TH DIVISION IS THE STRONGEST BUT SOME OF THESE LOOKED AWFUL LAST WEEK AT THE BIG M.   RIVER SHARK SHOULD BE ON CRUISE CONTROL AND DICTATE THE PACE BUT WILL HE BE SHARP OR WILL HE LOOK AWFUL LIKE LAST WEEK???

THIS IS A LONG SERIES BUT SOME OF THE BIG SHOTS WILL BE LOOKING TO GET POINTS THIS WEAK AGAINST SEASONAL DEBUTS AND HORSES THAT ARE OFF FORM RIGHT NOW, THOSE OFF FORM HORSES WILL BE GETTING SHARPER WHICH IS WHY I ALWAYS LIKED THIS SERIES.   MY ONLY COMPLAINT IS THEY SHOULD HAVE KEPT IT MILE AND A 1/16.
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JuiceJunkies
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« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2011, 10:35:02 PM »

Leg 1 is completed what does everyone think?
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« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2011, 12:15:41 AM »


good luck
Jetty got a 5th place check tonight, good for 2.5K, and was interfered with at the start of the race.
We all know Jetty's in way over his head, but he's got great early speed and hopefully will draw inside for a few of these races.
 thumbs up
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« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2011, 12:56:31 AM »

Jetty got a 5th place check tonight, good for 2.5K, and was interfered with at the start of the race.
We all know Jetty's in way over his head, but he's got great early speed and hopefully will draw inside for a few of these races.
 thumbs up

Good for them. Hopefully they can get a couple of more checks in the series.
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« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2011, 09:57:30 AM »

After first night, Foiled Again and Blatantly Good are going to be tough
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McElwyns Danger
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« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2011, 10:01:26 AM »

Rumor has it Yonkers is seeking legislation to allow them to break to the penny, so next week they can have win mutuels like $2.02.  Wink
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« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2011, 10:05:07 AM »

Rumor has it Yonkers is seeking legislation to allow them to break to the penny, so next week they can have win mutuels like $2.02.  Wink
thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up
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McElwyns Danger
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« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2011, 10:18:02 AM »

9 of 13 winning faves, 7 of them odds-on

No 7 or 8 hole winners

7 winners from post 1 or 2

"Series" racing, an idea which chould have been junked years ago, continues to be an engine for chalk, and for ensuring that the big stables simply win more of the races. Pena and Burke had 4 wins total; $2.10, $2.30, $2.90 and $2.10.

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« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2011, 03:28:07 PM »

The cream rises to the top
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McElwyns Danger
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« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2011, 05:09:07 PM »

It didn't rise; it was there already.
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« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2011, 06:52:38 PM »

9 of 13 winning faves, 7 of them odds-on

No 7 or 8 hole winners

7 winners from post 1 or 2

"Series" racing, an idea which chould have been junked years ago, continues to be an engine for chalk, and for ensuring that the big stables simply win more of the races. Pena and Burke had 4 wins total; $2.10, $2.30, $2.90 and $2.10.



They must have "Great Racing" there on that half mile. Shut the place down and just make it a casino already. Sam should have done well.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2011, 10:37:08 PM »

And THAT'S who pays the bills for this business-THE GAMBLER. It's about time the horsemen realize this. It might be too late but that has always been one of the problems. Not too many horsemen have thought just WHERE the purse money comes from. THE GAMBLER. So wouldn't it be OBVIOUS that to make harness racing a success(or more successful) they need to CATER to the GAMBLER? Maybe THAT'S why the casinos have done so well. They CATER to the GAMBLERS.

If you want to see half mile track racing- go to the fairs.

Been away this weekend.

So the gambler pays the bills.  And how's that workin' out for ya?

You just don't get it.  It starts with the fan, the young teenager who falls in love with the sport.  Then that person progresses into the gambler & eventually an owner and along the way, brings all his buddies to the track.  The only way to get new blood is to get people to enjoy the product 1st & then make a few bets along the way.  With the bigger tracks, there's no chance of that ever happening because you can't enjoy what you can't see.  Now I'm not that person anymore & neither are you - maybe you never were & just went for the gambling.  That's okay too.

I understand that you don't get it but the rest of the "leaders" of this sport don't get it either so the long, slow death continues.

Back on topic though, the results of the races did absolutely suck.  On the other hand, NFLD, which is also a 1/2 mile track to the best of my memory, had some terrific prices.
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« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2011, 10:43:28 PM »

Been away this weekend.

So the gambler pays the bills.  And how's that workin' out for ya?

You just don't get it.  It starts with the fan, the young teenager who falls in love with the sport.  Then that person progresses into the gambler & eventually an owner and along the way, brings all his buddies to the track.  The only way to get new blood is to get people to enjoy the product 1st & then make a few bets along the way.  With the bigger tracks, there's no chance of that ever happening because you can't enjoy what you can't see.  Now I'm not that person anymore & neither are you - maybe you never were & just went for the gambling.  That's okay too.

I understand that you don't get it but the rest of the "leaders" of this sport don't get it either so the long, slow death continues.

Back on topic though, the results of the races did absolutely suck.  On the other hand, NFLD, which is also a 1/2 mile track to the best of my memory, had some terrific prices.
Real bad horses racing for cheap purses results in chicanery.   bang head bang head
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JuiceJunkies
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« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2011, 11:18:50 PM »

Real bad horses racing for cheap purses results in chicanery.   bang head bang head

YOU THINK THE NORTHFIELD PAYOUTS ARE BASED ON DECEIPT?

THEY ARE THE ONLY TRACK SUPPORTING THEMSELVES.  I BELIEVE THE PAYOUTS ARE BASED ON FORTHRIGHTNESS.
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« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2011, 11:49:59 AM »

Since they went to 1 1/16

1) There have been 4 winners from the 8 hole on one card twice.
2) The first quarters have averaged 3/5 of a second faster, which gives the closers a better chance.

Yonkers isn't a very speed favoring track, Pena slants the stats to look that way, lineups very seldom hit at Yonkers though the speed does get better as the weather warms up, but for a couple months in the winter there the closers were dominating. I know this because I called every race at Yonkers and all of us who do were getting buried. The (1 1/16 miles) races lock so early now (even on the c-band satellite) that gate calling is a non issue anymore. My personal guess is that has cost Yonkers about 75k-100k a night in handle, combine that with the demise of the NYC OTB (which probably bet 200k a night/some of which has found its way through other ADW"S) and the handle has down lately, lower handle only chases away handle for a very bad downward spiral, good news is the slots are doing fine.
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SHOWTIME!!!
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« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2011, 12:05:41 PM »

Been away this weekend.

So the gambler pays the bills.  And how's that workin' out for ya?



I understand that you don't get it but the rest of the "leaders" of this sport don't get it either so the long, slow death continues.


Actually quite well. I have almost eliminated my harness racing "investments" to nothing. They have done NOTHING to deserve my money.And contrary to your thoughts about my interests,  I raced horses for over 20 years. I find it very amusing that the horsemen of today just want slot money instead of trying to improve their business enough for it to stand ON ITS OWN.
And for your ideas of how to "cultivate" people to make the business grow is pretty funny.How long would it take for owners to take friends out to the races, have them make a FEW SMALL bets, become owners and then WHAT? Please explain for EVERYONE how that helps the handle? Or don't you realize WHERE THE PURSE MONEY COMES FROM? It would take a WHOLE lot more than a couple of owners being brought into the sport. IF the purses were high, owners would come out of the woodwork, begging to get horses. But intelligent people see the writing on the wall and know harness racing is all dependent on slot money.So, NO owners.
Waiting for handouts is NEVER a good business model. AND demanding them is worse.
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« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2011, 12:22:41 PM »

Actually quite well. I have almost eliminated my harness racing "investments" to nothing. They have done NOTHING to deserve my money.And contrary to your thoughts about my interests,  I raced horses for over 20 years. I find it very amusing that the horsemen of today just want slot money instead of trying to improve their business enough for it to stand ON ITS OWN.
And for your ideas of how to "cultivate" people to make the business grow is pretty funny.How long would it take for owners to take friends out to the races, have them make a FEW SMALL bets, become owners and then WHAT? Please explain for EVERYONE how that helps the handle? Or don't you realize WHERE THE PURSE MONEY COMES FROM? It would take a WHOLE lot more than a couple of owners being brought into the sport. IF the purses were high, owners would come out of the woodwork, begging to get horses. But intelligent people see the writing on the wall and know harness racing is all dependent on slot money.So, NO owners.
Waiting for handouts is NEVER a good business model. AND demanding them is worse.

Thanks for someone making an intelligent post and realizing the game is done unless drastic changes are made eventhough it's probably too late.
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« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2011, 12:38:56 PM »

Actually quite well. I have almost eliminated my harness racing "investments" to nothing. They have done NOTHING to deserve my money.And contrary to your thoughts about my interests,  I raced horses for over 20 years. I find it very amusing that the horsemen of today just want slot money instead of trying to improve their business enough for it to stand ON ITS OWN.
And for your ideas of how to "cultivate" people to make the business grow is pretty funny.How long would it take for owners to take friends out to the races, have them make a FEW SMALL bets, become owners and then WHAT? Please explain for EVERYONE how that helps the handle? Or don't you realize WHERE THE PURSE MONEY COMES FROM? It would take a WHOLE lot more than a couple of owners being brought into the sport. IF the purses were high, owners would come out of the woodwork, begging to get horses. But intelligent people see the writing on the wall and know harness racing is all dependent on slot money.So, NO owners.
Waiting for handouts is NEVER a good business model. AND demanding them is worse.

Well, nice rant but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with my post, which never ever mentions handouts or slots.

Now, don't get me wrong - I believe the mistakes that have been made over 30 long years are irreparable.  But those mistakes began with the crowning of the big tracks, such as M1 because the short term goal of higher handle was likely achieved but the sport completely missed the long-term goal of continued cultivation of the sport.  You missed it too by ignoring two whole generations of new faces.  The clock cannot be turned back.

You now have what YOU cultivated - not me.

And it's just plain bad thinking when you fail to realize that "a few small bets" add up to the ultimate goals.  Steve Wolf once pointed out to me, correctly, that the track itself makes far more on concessions & other sales than from handle. 
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« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2011, 05:33:34 PM »

Well, nice rant but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with my post, which never ever mentions handouts or slots.

Now, don't get me wrong - I believe the mistakes that have been made over 30 long years are irreparable.  But those mistakes began with the crowning of the big tracks, such as M1 because the short term goal of higher handle was likely achieved but the sport completely missed the long-term goal of continued cultivation of the sport.  You missed it too by ignoring two whole generations of new faces.  The clock cannot be turned back.

You now have what YOU cultivated - not me.

And it's just plain bad thinking when you fail to realize that "a few small bets" add up to the ultimate goals.  Steve Wolf once pointed out to me, correctly, that the track itself makes far more on concessions & other sales than from handle. 
Once again some intelligence from Dolfan who truly sees the big picture.
Refreshing to read the truth even when it hurts but also when it makes sense and can be something positive.
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JuiceJunkies
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« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2011, 05:50:19 PM »

GOTTA LOVE DOLFAN.
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« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2011, 06:30:04 PM »

Right back at ya, JJ!

Thanks, Burton.
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