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Author Topic: Whats the Ihha's move now????  (Read 3698 times)
kingofpain
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« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2010, 04:29:56 PM »

Don't forget the money made off simulcasting. People that bet Meadowlands and other tracks then cash  winning tickets get surcharged to death! They sell their signal to other tracks.The total handle is money bet on the Live races!
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2010, 05:16:26 PM »

Honest and Balanced  Illinois racetracks are not for sale as far as i know .

So get together and build your own, or renovate a training track into a racetrack. If there's $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  And lots of it to be made, it would be a really good investment for horsemen, don't you think? The IRB would pretty much HAVE to give the horsemen the dates if that's where they said was the only place they would run.
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Go Baby
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« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2010, 05:22:04 PM »

Supernuat............You are right on in proclaiming a need for a new organization and I think there is support for such a group.  I also agree that the public (gamblers) should be considered in every move made concerning racetracks.  The track owners have had the upper hand for too long.  Normally the trainers go along with the track owners or management, and the owners of the horses (other than trainers) get the short end of the stick, along with the betting public.  Several months ago, during a meeting with several horseman in Springfield, I proposed forming an organization between the thoroughbred owners and breeders and the standardbred owners and breeders.  Both groups have the same goals.  It would give equal representation to both groups and more importantly would force the racetracks to be reasonable.  After all both organizations alone do not have the strength to get anything done in Springfield.   Plus, if you think about it, we both have the same goals and understanding of the horse business.  The owners have the clout but they seldom use it.  We need a forcefull leader who is not afraid to take on the racetracks.  We need to get out of an organization that does not allow a strike.  This is the hammer we need.  I would be reluctant to use it, but remember how Mr. D at Arlington Park shut out the horseman several years ago?  I will stop here and await some comments.
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Go Baby
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« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2010, 05:36:33 PM »

One more thing the racetracks should be looking at is sportsbooks at the racetracks.  This is where the real money is.  Betting on the Final Four and the Super Bowl by far exceeds the Triple Crown races combined.  There are games to bet on almost seven days a week and they attract gamblers from all walks of life.  I have been told other states are looking in to it.  We need to get a jump on the casinos, at least do some research on the idea.  Las Vegas sportsbooks that I go to always seem to be doing pretty well.
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jrstark
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« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2010, 05:58:17 PM »

One more thing the racetracks should be looking at is sportsbooks at the racetracks.  This is where the real money is.  Betting on the Final Four and the Super Bowl by far exceeds the Triple Crown races combined.  There are games to bet on almost seven days a week and they attract gamblers from all walks of life.  I have been told other states are looking in to it.  We need to get a jump on the casinos, at least do some research on the idea.  Las Vegas sportsbooks that I go to always seem to be doing pretty well.

Aside from Las Vegas and some limited others who were grandfathered, sports betting is illegal by federal law.  NCAA has threatened to ban playoff games in some states that are considering allowing sports betting.

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fullswedge
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« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2010, 06:03:04 PM »

Clockerterry your an idiot. if your not going to add value why speak? if you dont know how complicated(impossible) it is to open a horse racing venue in illinois than your not very smart.The IRB would have to give the horsemen dates? whatever, keep smokin.  these venues have been here forever. Honest and balanced not inteligent.
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FILLYNATION
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« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2010, 06:13:32 PM »

Hawthorne a family owned racetrack could not get harness dates after years of trying . Why would any venture that has to compete with present owners of balmoral ,maywood, Arlington ever have a chance . If the owners cant make money then they should put the racetracks up for sale .
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kingofpain
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« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2010, 06:21:10 PM »

Hawthorne a family owned racetrack could not get harness dates after years of trying . Why would any venture that has to compete with present owners of balmoral ,maywood, Arlington ever have a chance . If the owners cant make money then they should put the racetracks up for sale .
Hawthorne withdrew the application for harness dares a couple of years ago because they made a deal with the Johnstons!
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2010, 06:27:43 PM »

If anyone can remember, Dick D got offered 100 mil for Arlington the year he decided to shut down to make his pitch for slots....and turned it down.....anyone who believes management is losing money is off their collective rocker. Much like sports teams who cry broke, they're NOT. All I can tell you is that multi-millionair business dont stay in business when they're losing money. Hell, in some occasions they shut down even when they make a small profit....see QCD.
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Horses make the humans...not the other way around.
beautyistruth
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« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2010, 07:24:16 PM »

So maybe horsemen should join a union so they can attain some sort of edge in bargaining . By the way the tellers are not the only union members working at the racetracks . Don't they employees of tote belong to a union . Its a sad situation when horsemen seem to have no say so in real negotiations . Doesn't the thoroughbreds have a union that consists of the starting gate crew and jockeys guild .
By the bowserkat if you think about it doesn't baseball, basketball and even football attendance varie game by game . I don't see management asking for players to give them money back .
The poor attendance is also caused by putting out a poorer product year by year in Illinois . The promotions at the track are poorly ... ooops there i go again   !!!!
LETS HOPE THINGS GET BETTER

   The union thing is  a great idea but the ball-less horseman could never get it started. They are to interested in brown nosing the ownership.
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jrstark
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« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2010, 07:34:09 PM »

Hawthorne did not withdraw their harness dates application.  They were not given dates because the IRB didn't want Balmoral to lose all the dates they would by not racing on Tuesdays.  IHHA agreed.

Horsemen cannot join a union because they are not employees.
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honesthorseman
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« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2010, 08:27:47 PM »

i don't think hawthorne wants harness because the once the t breds leave hawthorne they don't come back......hawthorne does not want to risk that again
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Old and Slow
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« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2010, 08:33:19 PM »

he IRB would pretty much HAVE to give the horsemen the dates if that's where they said was the only place they would run.
Terry, just as a point of order, and I welcome your participation on this side, but we HATE the word "run". Our horses "race", we hope they don't "run". If I  had one in Saturday night and thought it would "run" I would scratch Grin
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I know one thing for sure.  Indecision may or may not be my problem.
Go Baby
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« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2010, 08:36:57 PM »

If you look at Illinois legislation it is virtually impossible to start up a new racetrack in Illinois.  In reality, it cannot be done.  Too many hoops to jump through.  As far as sportsbooks go, federal laws are changed everyday.  It is going to happen eventually, the money is just too big to stop.  Harry Reid will not be around forever.
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Old and Slow
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« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2010, 08:40:29 PM »

 Normally the trainers go along with the track owners or management, and the owners of the horses (other than trainers) get the short end of the stick, along with the betting public.
Go Baby, what you say may be true with tbreds, I have no idea, but that can't be said for harness, that's why we've had several boycotts of the entry box over the years. On our side, the interests of the owners and breeders and the interests of the trainers pretty much parallel each other. Trainers on the harness side DO NOT go along with management of the tracks.
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I know one thing for sure.  Indecision may or may not be my problem.
Go Baby
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« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2010, 08:56:07 PM »

Old and slow.................you are probably right about the management, but I do believe there is a problem with the organizations and the owners/breeders and we all need a bigger voice.  The thoroughbred trainers will tell you they are for the owners/breeders, but thry never do anything but help themselves.
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Old and Slow
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« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2010, 09:00:57 PM »

Old and slow.................you are probably right about the management, but I do believe there is a problem with the organizations and the owners/breeders and we all need a bigger voice.  The thoroughbred trainers will tell you they are for the owners/breeders, but thry never do anything but help themselves.
I won't pretend to know what goes on on the tbred side. I've no clue about it.

On this side the owners, trainers, drivers, breeders and grooms all have the same objectives.
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I know one thing for sure.  Indecision may or may not be my problem.
supernaut
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« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2010, 09:11:45 PM »

Well, making money is an obvious, but HOW they go about it is completely different.
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comegetit23
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« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2010, 10:00:42 PM »

i find it quite odd that 2011, the tracks decided to apply for year round racing (instead of the 3 week break) ... and THEN stick horsemen with recapture--now there's some logical thinking....on another note, the tracks are probably hoping there's a boycott ... it may help getting slots bill through (that eliminates recapture)
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2010, 10:37:27 PM »

Clockerterry your an idiot. if your not going to add value why speak? if you dont know how complicated(impossible) it is to open a horse racing venue in illinois than your not very smart.

So, wise one, tell us, just exactly how hard is it? Who was the last person or group who tried?

And, btw, if you can't see by the failure of the horseman owned Rosecroft that there is NOT $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in running a racetrack these days, then you're not very smart either, are you?
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2010, 10:42:26 PM »

If anyone can remember, Dick D got offered 100 mil for Arlington the year he decided to shut down to make his pitch for slots....and turned it down.....anyone who believes management is losing money is off their collective rocker. Much like sports teams who cry broke, they're NOT. All I can tell you is that multi-millionair business dont stay in business when they're losing money. Hell, in some occasions they shut down even when they make a small profit....see QCD.

Arlington is "marginally profitable" according to corporate parent CDI and their financial statements, and that's the premier track in the state, with the highest handle. What does that make the lesser tracks? Why do you think a track like Hawthorne closes down half the plant, and cuts back on pretty much everything, if they're raking in the dough? Why do you think Fairmount is on the brink of closing from year to year?
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2010, 10:43:28 PM »

If you look at Illinois legislation it is virtually impossible to start up a new racetrack in Illinois.

What legislation is that, specifically?
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2010, 02:22:39 PM »

Arlington is "marginally profitable" according to corporate parent CDI and their financial statements, and that's the premier track in the state, with the highest handle. What does that make the lesser tracks? Why do you think a track like Hawthorne closes down half the plant, and cuts back on pretty much everything, if they're raking in the dough? Why do you think Fairmount is on the brink of closing from year to year?



"marginally profitable" is all in the eye of the beholder....what number did they give?1 mil? 5 mil? They didnt give a number did they? Because then they tip their hands....I know for a fact the the QCD entity INCLUDING their own OTB's the last year they were open made an 800K profit....not enough for Dick D to care. Fairmount is a great example of greed. Brian Zander has no reason on this Earth not to run both breeds yet.....except they want slots also but want everybody else to do the heavy lifting.....Terry, if it were as easy as just building a track and running it, it would happen.
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fullswedge
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« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2010, 03:01:51 PM »

Nothing positive comes out of the tracks showing profit. Then they cant steal from the horsemen and cry "help us survive" about needing the slots. Do they every lay out legitimate accounting for everyone to see? is it accurate? HELL NO. Smoke and mirrors so they can convince everyone they are losing money. Kinda like the ex husband on welfare that works 40 hours a week for cash. Tricks everyone into thinking he is trying but doesn't have the money. Seems to be the American way. Track owners are smart, they will never get slots on there own, so they screw the horsemen and make them believe it is the only way to survive. So the horsemen do all the work and are responsible for all the progress made in springfield while the track owners sit back an do little. Then when the bill passes they will be making tons of cash and will still screw the horsemen  who are responsible for making it happen. Hell, they may even find a way to eliminate horse racing all together. Here's a thought, how about telling the ihha what a great job they have done getting the slot bill closer than it has ever been and deferring recapture or keep the same deal going to help survive. NOT, keep being greedy owners and raise the percentage of recapture and keep us down even more, Big suprise. At least they are consistant. Consistently being greedy slum lords of our industry.
This is why the idea of going dark in january and eliminating tues racing to shore up the purse account isnt fair, now the track owners want more recapture money, we cant get ahead in this arrangement.
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FILLYNATION
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« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2010, 03:05:16 PM »

Greed was the downfall of racing and creed remains as the industry sinks lower ...
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