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Author Topic: Whats the Ihha's move now????  (Read 3665 times)
beautyistruth
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« on: December 15, 2010, 12:38:07 AM »



     They should have went on strike when they could have got something out of it. In 2011 they'll be racing for $500.00 purses or less

                Way to negotiate with the track for slots nyah thumbs down BSmeter crossedfingers doh
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mo doc n
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2010, 08:28:12 AM »


     They should have went on strike when they could have got something out of it. In 2011 they'll be racing for $500.00 purses or less

                Way to negotiate with the track for slots nyah thumbs down BSmeter crossedfingers doh

First ~ it's called a boycott of the entry box
Second ~ There are too many horsemen who would race for $500.00 or less in Illinois.
Third ~ They were working with the politicians and lobbyist for the slots not the tracks.

you really need to get your facts straight instead of bashing the IHHA.
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FILLYNATION
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2010, 09:47:23 AM »

Very Informative mo doc n and please us who don't know much of what is really happening posted . i feel bad for the horseman in Illinois who are being kicked while down by management .
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Humpy
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2010, 10:14:33 AM »

I would like to hear from McCaffrey and the IHHA board about what their next move will be. If the horsemen don't stick together on this one and fight Langley and Johnson then horse racing in Illinois is done! We need to get Langley out of the USTA!!!!!!!!!!
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fullswedge
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2010, 10:21:07 AM »

Buckle down and boycott the box. Let the Duncan price stables put in. They can barely fill races right now. Get the drivers on board and it will make a difference. They cry about there 900,000 dollar handle. Lets see how good business is with 0 live handle, no programs, no beer, no food. If we don't take a stand somehow they will continue to own us. Remember, we are the product.
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bowserkat
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2010, 10:32:40 AM »

Buckle down and boycott the box. Let the Duncan price stables put in. They can barely fill races right now. Get the drivers on board and it will make a difference. They cry about there 900,000 dollar handle. Lets see how good business is with 0 live handle, no programs, no beer, no food. If we don't take a stand somehow they will continue to own us. Remember, we are the product.

I doubt they make any profit on programs, beer food or even the live racing.  The crowds are non existant.  In this cold it must cost more to heat the place than the total proceeds from that stuff.  I have a question.  If Duncan is the only one entered will his 0% training wins go up?
 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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fullswedge
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2010, 11:14:02 AM »


 
  Re: 2011 Chicago Racing Schedule Update
Reply #18 on: Today at 10:13:04 AM Quote Modify 

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the crowds are non existant? I often drive by on Saturday and the lot has ALOT of cars for a dying business. $2.50 for a program?$7 for a hot dog and beer? not making money, who are you kidding. Ever been to maywood for the buffet? I went there for dinner with two people, had a few beers and the buffet and our tab was $120, and the place was packed. i bet every restaurant in town would wish for a 5 hour serve time and #'s like this. They make money on everything and play with the handle #'s to screw us. Who is responsible for tracking the handle and payouts? I wouldn't be surprised if there skimming 20%. Track owners are criminals with well placed moles=Langley=doc. as long as we keep believing their bulls**t we will never get any respect, ever.
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supernaut
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2010, 11:22:39 AM »

$3.50 for a simulcast program which is what most people buy. The "groups" people get free Balmoral programs. AND what about the tv booths? $25 for the big ones, $10 for the 4 tv ones and $5 for the rest. And that is PER CARD, not for the day. Pop is $2.50 and costs what=$.05 cup? They make good money on the concessions.
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FILLYNATION
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2010, 11:59:12 AM »

I have to agree with fullswedge and supernaut and would think the management makes lots of money . I do have an idea that some will not like but how about charging for stall rent and dorm room rentals . . I think the money collected should be put into a separate account that the ihha should control . Maybe for increased purses or to bank for a future strike .
A nominal fee for the use of the grounds that other horsemen who ship in do not have .
I think with our economy so in shambles that a strike may not be a good idea at this time . I do think if the unions wont cross then the horseman may have a better chance if they do strike however .
i know i'll get negative responses but lets see what happens
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nelly
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« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2010, 12:10:37 PM »

The Johnstons are making plenty of money off of recapture alone!!!!!!  I would like to own a business which has a guaranteed level of revenue and if the level is not met someone else pays me the difference!!!!  screwy screwy
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bowserkat
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2010, 12:23:18 PM »

Saturday may be the only day they have a half-decent crowd.  A parking lot that is about 20% full may seem like a lot, but not really.  You come out tonight and tell me how much money you think they are making.  Last Wed. there could not have been more than 100-150 people there.  I and many others I know don't pay anything for booths, programs or even food as you use your  Horseplayers plus card points for all that stuff.   I wasn't there last Sunday but was the Sunday before and I'd say 80% of the "crowd" were party goers who wouldn't know one end of a horse from another. I aways try and help those folks if they are having trouble using the Sam machine or in other ways if I can. How the hell can you make money on a place built to accomodate 5,000 or more with crowds of 100-1,000?  How many race days do you think the crowd is more than 1,000.  Very very few.
I don't think anyone is making "lots" of money.  We know the horsemen aren't and considering the investment management has and their expenses I doubt they are making obscene profits.  
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supernaut
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2010, 12:30:36 PM »

I've said it before and I'll say it again. RECAPTURE IS THE WORST THING TO EVER HIT THE HORSEMEN. It is a guaranteed loss even before you start racing. A person walks into a racetrack/betting parlor with $200 in his pocket. If there is only ONE racetrack racing, he HAS to bet ALL of his money on it. If there are 20 tracks racing, he might not bet $2 on the live product. And this does NOT take into account how much money he would churn through the windows betting "won" money. As long as there is recapture, the horsemen have NO chance. It's the Sword of Damocles hanging over their heads.

And for FillyNation- the unions WILL cross a picket line by the horsemen. They already have and will again. Johnston/Langley have too much pull with the unions. The tracks don't NEED tellers already and have been cutting them down.
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supernaut
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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2010, 12:37:39 PM »

Saturday may be the only day they have a half-decent crowd.  A parking lot that is about 20% full may seem like a lot, but not really.  You come out tonight and tell me how much money you think they are making.  Last Wed. there could not have been more than 100-150 people there.  I and many others I know don't pay anything for booths, programs or even food as you use your  Horseplayers plus card points for all that stuff.   I wasn't there last Sunday but was the Sunday before and I'd say 80% of the "crowd" were party goers who wouldn't know one end of a horse from another. I aways try and help those folks if they are having trouble using the Sam machine or in other ways if I can. How the hell can you make money on a place built to accomodate 5,000 or more with crowds of 100-1,000?  How many race days do you think the crowd is more than 1,000.  Very very few.
I don't think anyone is making "lots" of money.  We know the horsemen aren't and considering the investment management has and their expenses I doubt they are making obscene profits.  


Ever see the wad that Freddie has on Saturday night? Feel fortunate that you do NOT have to pay for those "benefits". As for the other nights, Sunday seems to do ok. Have you seen the cards on Wednesday nights? And some of the drives ? I'm surprised there are ANY people there. I will never go on a Wednesday again. And I don't know anybody who does other than the simulcast people betting thoroughbreds.
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FILLYNATION
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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2010, 12:44:27 PM »

So maybe horsemen should join a union so they can attain some sort of edge in bargaining . By the way the tellers are not the only union members working at the racetracks . Don't they employees of tote belong to a union . Its a sad situation when horsemen seem to have no say so in real negotiations . Doesn't the thoroughbreds have a union that consists of the starting gate crew and jockeys guild .
By the bowserkat if you think about it doesn't baseball, basketball and even football attendance varie game by game . I don't see management asking for players to give them money back .
The poor attendance is also caused by putting out a poorer product year by year in Illinois . The promotions at the track are poorly ... ooops there i go again   !!!!
LETS HOPE THINGS GET BETTER
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bowserkat
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« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2010, 01:18:18 PM »

The Texas Rangers went bankrupt earlier this year.
Most NFL teams have all tickets sold for the season. ( not to metion the wads of TV money these sports get.)
Has anyone been to an OTB of late?  The crowd at those places is down a lot since the popularity of ADW.
I hate recapture and wish we could get rid it.
The cards may be better on Sat and Sun, but they still suck.
The drivers are pretty much the same on all three nights. 
Whatever, the IHHA decides to do, I will support.     
But, that does not change my thinking that the tracks are not making huge profits off the live crowds.   
I'll continue to go on Wed nights because my ROI is better on Wed than any other night.
We know that the product gets worse and worse and the major cause is that many of the top horses, drivers, trainers and owners have gone to the slot tracks.  We cannot compete with them.  No promotion is going to change that.  No slots and there will be no live racing soon.   
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supernaut
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« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2010, 01:46:11 PM »

So maybe horsemen should join a union so they can attain some sort of edge in bargaining . By the way the tellers are not the only union members working at the racetracks . Don't they employees of tote belong to a union . Its a sad situation when horsemen seem to have no say so in real negotiations . Doesn't the thoroughbreds have a union that consists of the starting gate crew and jockeys guild .
By the bowserkat if you think about it doesn't baseball, basketball and even football attendance varie game by game . I don't see management asking for players to give them money back .
The poor attendance is also caused by putting out a poorer product year by year in Illinois . The promotions at the track are poorly ... ooops there i go again   !!!!
LETS HOPE THINGS GET BETTER

The tote guys are in the electrical union along with the tellers.
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fullswedge
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« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2010, 01:50:29 PM »

There are people spending money at the track bottom line. if the parking lot was full every night would the horsemen benefit? Its not our fault ownership spends their time beating up the horseman instead of actually spending some money on marketing and promotions. They don't even try to fill the stands so why should we care about attendance? They are making money with no effort to attract or satisfy a customer. Let the party goers come and spend thousands on alcohol and food throwing 2$ bet around, business is business. as for stall rent, i will gladly pay stall rent that reflects the facilities. Roof leaks,water leaks, stalls are falling apart, roads to and from the track are filled with holes. Watch someone at balmoral get off the track weaving in a out avoiding the craters(ankle breakers).all to race for $1000 purses. not saying it should be free, but if they charge then either charge accordingly or do some maintenance. i am speaking of horse facilities, dorms should have to be paid for. if management keeps taking money from the "product"(horses) the product will be even worse(if possible) and weds attendance will be on Saturday also.
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supernaut
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« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2010, 01:54:40 PM »

I really don't think anybody needs to run a tag day for the track owners. Why hasn't anybody replied to my statement about the tracks pocketing breakage 4 times on EVERY payout of EVERY race? How much do you think THAT is ? Win, place,show, exacta,daily double, trifecta,superfecta,pick 3s, pick 4s, pick 5s and hi 5 wagers.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2010, 02:03:54 PM »

If there's so much money to be made owning a racetrack, the horsemen should find a way to get or build a track of their own, and then run a horseman's meet, and keep all the money for themselves. Like the Rosecroft horsemen.
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Humpy
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« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2010, 02:04:45 PM »

Here's how I think the track and horsemen can make money - eliminate the OTB's. Make people go to the track and spend money on parking, programs, food, an wagers. Before the OTB's Maywood, Hawthorne, Sportsman's Park, Quad City Downs, would almost fill the stands. I remember when you had to make resevations at QCD on Sunday if you wanted to eat.
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MVT
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« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2010, 02:16:02 PM »

If there's so much money to be made owning a racetrack, the horsemen should find a way to get or build a track of their own, and then run a horseman's meet, and keep all the money for themselves. Like the Rosecroft horsemen.
laughing guy bang head

The problem is that all the talk is centered around these so called horsemen.  The talks should be focused on us the consumers, the gamblers!  I have a lot of sympathy for these "horsemen" but these guys really are not a talented bunch here in Illinois.  The days of oatmeal boots and really caring for the horse...putting out a horse onto the track that really will lay his heart out for victory...these days are over.  Why?  Because the horsemen really do not care as much and have slacked off.  They don't have the talent or dedication like they used to.  Guys working at Wal-Mart part time and coming to the track with a few horses can't be called true "horsemen".  We need more horsemen that truly live and breathe for the sport and commit themselves to do anything for their horses.  The big stables and farms out there are far from perfect either.  Each horse needs more attention.  The horsemen needed to improve and then maybe they would earn their money better.  Otherwise as of right now all these IHHA talks need to be focused on the gamblers, advertising, promoting, and filling up the stands!
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supernaut
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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2010, 02:23:07 PM »

If there's so much money to be made owning a racetrack, the horsemen should find a way to get or build a track of their own, and then run a horseman's meet, and keep all the money for themselves. Like the Rosecroft horsemen.

That would be ideal, IF the horsemen were honest. Which, unfortunately, is not true. Some are, most are not. Just want for themselves and NOT for the good of the group. They could never stick together long enough to get anything done. How do you think Johnston/Langley get their information? From "certain" horsemen.For the horsemen to really do any good, they need INDEPENDANT representation, which could NOT be bought by track ownership. That way, there is nothing the tracks could have to hang over somebodys head.
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fullswedge
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« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2010, 02:55:16 PM »

yeah terry thats why all the Illinois track owners are so poor. Johnston lives in the section 8 housing section of handle. That's why steinbrenners daughter was reeling in 400k a year from balmoral and has never even visited. like i said in previous post, why don't they put a for sale sign up then? i am pretty sure all business losing money are up for sale, why not this one? because it is bull, they are crying poor to get more money and possibly slots. Greedy thieves.
Gee MVT i wonder why the horsemes are so sub par here? The purses suck and everyone cheats. Go to the market place in Jamaica and see how honest the few survivor's are. Also the track welcomes criminals in Illinois. The welcome sign should say "if you cant race anywhere else come to Illinois, we'll take ya". Balmoral isn't even at walmart's level, walmart pays legitimate wages.
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2010, 03:01:20 PM »

That would be ideal, IF the horsemen were honest. Which, unfortunately, is not true. Some are, most are not. Just want for themselves and NOT for the good of the group. They could never stick together long enough to get anything done. How do you think Johnston/Langley get their information? From "certain" horsemen.For the horsemen to really do any good, they need INDEPENDANT representation, which could NOT be bought by track ownership. That way, there is nothing the tracks could have to hang over somebodys head.



Absolutely correct....that would make way too much sense supe'.....we tried for many years to keep an eye on the important parts....but nobody listened/listens. Someday, someone will come along and HIRE and ATTORNEY who knows labor and entertainment laws and negotiate fair deals........( ahh....who am I kidding)  screwy
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Horses make the humans...not the other way around.
FILLYNATION
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« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2010, 05:05:32 PM »

Honest and Balanced  Illinois racetracks are not for sale as far as i know . Now to me that means they are making $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  And lots of it i assume
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